GP performance series Extra 300sp Flutter
 

Flutter plain Sucks! Be careful of the pushrods in the kit. I sent mine in for warranty. they said it is possible that i had play in the linkage. I had No play at all! JR ds821 servos, dubro arms, and kit hardware. if anyone else is having same problem please post!.

oh and wire for this massive surface was 2-56:eek:

Best to junk the hardware on reputable companies' kits and arfs, as they do not support their product (at least Great Planes). Especially when they see it convenient to tell the moddeler that it was their lack of skills/knowledge in assembly/flying.

RE: GP performance series Extra 300sp Flutter
 

sorry about what happened. I am not blaming you but most usually check out the hardware that comes with these kits. 2/56 is simply too small for anything of decent size

good luck

matt

RE: GP performance series Extra 300sp Flutter
 

It looks like a lightly built plane, more suitable for 3D than for speed.

RE: GP performance series Extra 300sp Flutter
 

Mine has been great using the stock hardware. It is powered by a YS-63 which makes a lot of power but it isn't ridiculously overpowered or anything. I've never had a flutter issue. I also run a 13x4 prop which keeps speeds down. I have flown it with a 12x7 though and it was pretty fast.

What engine and prop are you running? What was the plane doing when the flutter occurred?

Regardless, I am surprised that GP didn't do anything for you. I've always found them to be pretty liberal in their warranty decisions even when the situation isn't black & white.

RE: GP performance series Extra 300sp Flutter
 

I agree with what you say. Hindsight is 20/20. But some fliers from my club think it is sort of chinsey that an arf that costs this much and is marketed "performance series" would have inadequate hardware.

I was also using a saito .80 with a 14x4 prop.

i flew and went vertical from straight and level, hammerhead, then pulled out coming back, advanced to half throttle at the bottom to get ready for next maneuver, then it fluttered. I remember the guys at the field were like " woa what caused that!"...then commented on the rods after i picked up the peices. if you look at the picture you can see one rod is snapped in half at the start of the clevice threads and the other is bent at an S shape.

oh and My primary airplane is an OMP Edge 540 Hybrid with a DA-50 up front. If I were one to not practice throttle control, I wouldnt expect that airframe to stick around too long, but it is intended for 3D, and i was hoping that was what id get outta my extra too but obviously not. Thats me holding my hybrid :) Such an awesome flyer!

However, i cant help but feel screwed over by the warranty company... is the warranty company owned by the manufacturer???how does that work anyway?

RE: GP performance series Extra 300sp Flutter
 

Hello,

I am sorry to read about your experience with the Extra 300sp.

I noticed your clevis is connected to the control horn rather far in. We have had one other customer report a similar issue (but did not lose his model). We sent him the PDF which I have posted here. It is hard to say what his results were after he looked over the information, but we have not heard back from him. I have included a pic of his wing and the linkages.

I have been flying the same model (very hard) with all stock hardware, and have not had any failures. Every model is stress tested with added ballast during development...and we do not have any record of a flutter issue. With that said....there are many variables in our hobby...and sometimes it is difficult to determine the root of issues like yours.

Please feel free to email me directly, and I will look into your situation with our service department on Monday.

Again...I am very sorry to hear about your model, and I hope sharing some of this information can be helpful to others.

Best regards,
George Rodriguez
Product Manager
Hobbico/Great Planes
[email protected]

RE: GP performance series Extra 300sp Flutter
 

Another note.....we will be including a printed version of this document with all future production of the Extra 300sp.
We will also post a link to this information on the Great Planes website for the Extra.

GR

RE: GP performance series Extra 300sp Flutter
 

I think that's a nice response by gp grod; hope they help out. I have a GP Reactor, and it too uses 2-56 hardware. In the thread here on RCU, most replace that with 4-40 stuff, which I did also. Never had any flutter, but I did notice both an aileron and an elevator rod bent during 3D flying when using the original 2-56 stuff. I do agree that for a $200+ plane, the hardware could be a little better. I am eyeing another mid-size plane to probably go electric instead of glow, and there are several planes (3D Hobby Shop Su-26, Extreme Flight Extra, Precision Aero Extra MX)out there that include better hardware(4-40, ball links instead of clevises, carbon gear and/or wing tubes, etc) for only a few dollars more than the GP stuff. Don't get me wrong, I have always like the GP stuff, but I hope they take notice of some of this.

RE: GP performance series Extra 300sp Flutter
 

Mine is sitting in the sealed box it came in from from UPS. I agree, 2-56 hardware is entirely too small for a plane like this. Sealing the control surface gaps will also help with flutter issues. Having not yet even so much as opened the box, I don't know know if gap sealing is part of the instructions. In all the planes I've built in recent years, only one came with a hardware package I felt good using.

RE: GP performance series Extra 300sp Flutter
 

G-Rod,
Thanks for the post and the .pdf file. Good information and illustration in it. I know a couple guys that could really benefit having a copy of it so im going to print it off for them to see. Also thanks for looking into my incident.

As far as my pefrence in 3d throws on most models, i find that i need much more travel on tail surfaces than on ailerons. I know some people love it though. Like the airplane is on the end of a dremel tool buzzing around.[sm=spinnyeyes.gif]

...Darn Profile .40s. They sure are exciting to watch in a skilled pilots control!

RE: GP performance series Extra 300sp Flutter
 

I witnessed this crash, it was awesome but if it happened to me I would be pissed... That was some bad 2-56 rod in that kit! The cheap 2-56 hardware from the kit bent under load and your plane went in hard! I don't know why these ARF's come with cheap 2-56 rod. There is a definite difference in rod! Same difference as the Good metal used in Tools compared with the cheap Tools you buy. It is Dangerous! Someone could have been hurt causing AMA to use insurance. They need good 4-40 rod in these Arfs with todays powerful engines. I am sure its all about money- cheapest possible hardware meens more profit. I had my Mojo that I built go in after the 3rd flight of the year, 4-40 hardware everything rock solid. But I lost all radio contro not hardware issue that was worse not knowing what happened with the Radio. I lost the whole plane -bent crank on my Saito .82, lost the lipo battery it was bent in half. I sent my radio in and receiver to Horizon and after I pleaded my case with 4 different customer service reps they fixed everything for free. Well we will see what kind service Great Planes has compared with Horizon! In my opinion they should replace the plane, if not I would go with Horizon or throw all their hardware away and get good quality hardware.

RE: GP performance series Extra 300sp Flutter
 

if i owned a business my policy would be "The customer is Always Right!"

you dont need a MBA to know that. depends on how big the business is though i guess.

RE: GP performance series Extra 300sp Flutter
 

I've owned and flown well over ten different GP planes, most of which I had no problems with other then the hardware that comes with the kits. Any plane listed as a performance plane should come with quality hardware regardless of size. 2-56 is not performance unless its on a 1/2A size plane. If a person is expected to pay that kind of money for a kit that includes hardware why should he have to turn around an spend another $30 plus to get quality hardware to ensure his plane will stay a flight. The plane is only as reliable as its weakest link, in this case it's the cheap hardware provided.

RE: GP performance series Extra 300sp Flutter
 

great planes offered me a new arf for 125 bucks. still i dont think that is good enough...do you guys think im crazy or would you expect more.

RE: GP performance series Extra 300sp Flutter
 

what all was lost due to the crash how much money are you out including shipping?

RE: GP performance series Extra 300sp Flutter
 

7 bucks x2 for gearsets in aileron servos

7.4 volt - 1500mAh 20C Li-Poly Pack 40 bucks destroyed

26 bucks for shipping back airplane



so about 80 bucks gone in repairs

RE: GP performance series Extra 300sp Flutter
 

Too late for me the tech notice, i lost the plane tree weeks ago it was set for maximun movements of the ailerons, the problem is that i liked the plane a lot and is not easy for me to get another one...... for the record the flutter was so big that one aileron get off and the other the servo control horn was cut in the root it was a windy day (sorry for my english)

RE: GP performance series Extra 300sp Flutter
 

that stinks too...

RE: GP performance series Extra 300sp Flutter
 

My $149.00 Phoenix Extra 330S came with 1/8th size Carbon fibre rod for the aileron pushrods. It's a bigger plane at 64 in. wingspan, and I have it overpowered with a 90 2 stroke...never had any flutter.

RE: GP performance series Extra 300sp Flutter
 

yea im not too impressed with this whole deal from great planes. ive seen alot of other models from other companies that are impressive for less. i just never really shopped around until this incident.

Their final offer to me was a new arf for 100 (half of towers price). i said i would take it, but i think ill just hold off and learn from this whole experience. I have to grant that they worked with me a little after i caused a fuss, but i guess im not satisfied enough to take their offer. I think i had to work too darn hard to get the deal I was offered, and i dont think that is the way it should be.
In time i may shop with them again but right now they might as well take my business and kiss it goodbye. [sm=bananahead.gif]

after losing that model i obtained a similar aircraft from a friend and i am flying that right now and having fun with it. i am also starting to build Swanny's primo 40.

So... Im gonna forget about this and learn from it. Check hardware out good before purchasing another arf, ya know. Now lets just get back to what model aviation is about...having fun.

thanks guys for your input.

RE: GP performance series Extra 300sp Flutter
 

Myself I have owned and flown many GP models. Even on my U Can Do .46 I used HS 5945 servos (180oz torque) and had CF pushrods with 4-40 hardware. Having owned several U Can do's and similar smaller models its a night and day difference using ball links and heavy duty push rods vs. 256 rods.

Looking even at the GP setup from their R&D I would never used a bent rod like that. I would use a clevis at the servo and the control surface end. If the control rod has even a slight amount of flex without the plane flying then you can imagine what happens when you stress it in the air.

Even on the smaller models I would seal the control surfaces for ailerons and elevator halves with at least packing tape.

RE: GP performance series Extra 300sp Flutter
 

Great planes should say in their instructions to throw away the hardware in the kit and replace with larger stronger hardware? They don't care about product safety that is evident because if they did being that they have been building/flying models for years they would know what kind of force are on these control surfaces when doing 3D. I think they don't care and can sell more planes to the unknowing less experienced modeler.

RE: GP performance series Extra 300sp Flutter
 

i think it is clear to say that great planes doesnt care to satisfy me in this matter. if they were to replace the model it would speak loudly that their service is top-knotch. although some of us are convinced that their hardware is not.

RE: GP performance series Extra 300sp Flutter
 

So what happened?

Do these planes still come with inferior hardware?

RE: GP performance series Extra 300sp Flutter
 

You made a wise choice and got a Primo;) Trust me....you will soon forget that Extra the first time the Primo takes to the sky!!!! If you need any help on it, PM me....I will be glad to help!

RE: GP performance series Extra 300sp Flutter
 

PROBABLY still has got junk for hardware so be sure to replace it before you build. at minimum the pushrods

RE: GP performance series Extra 300sp Flutter
 

damn it feels good to be a probro! i got a few flights on my primo and it has replaced the extra quite well. although that extra flew quite nice and felt very predictable, the primo blows it out o da water! and i can tell you that i got a lot less time in building that bird than all the time i lost trying to get satisfied by great planes.

RE: GP performance series Extra 300sp Flutter
 

;)


WORD!!!!!! It is good to be a BRO!

I thought you'd like that Primo;)

RE: GP performance series Extra 300sp Flutter
 

I am definitely going to get a Mojo 60, but in the mean time, I read this thread and looked at the hardware on my new Seagull Extra and it looked pretty much like the same 2mm crap that failed. So, I replaced it with some of the new aluminum Sullivan ball links, titanium 4-40 pushrods and a new clevis with locking pin. Definitely no slop and flex as compared to stock and only 1 gram each heavier. Unfortunately, the weather is not conducive to flying right now...
Stock versus new stuff:
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...nes/Extra1.jpg
http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h2...s/Pushrod2.jpg

<br type="_moz" />

RE: GP performance series Extra 300sp Flutter
 

Hi Robinsp,
I have Dumb Question for you ,
Do you have all your "hinge gaps Sealed " ???????
Also check your elevators to see if they are deflecting the same ?
Try moving the control rod out to the end of the control horn ( for more lexerage ) ...

Just A BrainFart , OH Well :D[:-]

Later,
Mark K.

RE: GP performance series Extra 300sp Flutter
 

that has been discussed...and im not sure youre on the right page with your train of thought.[sm=spinnyeyes.gif][sm=spinnyeyes.gif]

RE: GP performance series Extra 300sp Flutter
 

Hi Robinsp,
oh My Bad,,,,
Did not read the Whole thread ,
the Question still remains The Same ??????
Never Mind, [sm=lol.gif]

RE: GP performance series Extra 300sp Flutter
 

i hear ya. ive had flutter on 2 models before. one i was able to save, the other was my trainer after the ca hinges on the elevator were starting to pull out... learned the hard way.

RE: GP performance series Extra 300sp Flutter
 

Got this plane from my lovely wife for Christmas and took great care building it. I have been flying a Twist with a saito .82 for about a year and wanted a pattern plain. The build went great with few problems. The first flight went off flawless but I was flying quite slow getting things trimmed out and practicing approaches so I could get it on the ground in one piece. My second flight I made a fairly fast pass out of a dive at idle throttle and could hear a loud buzzing and then i could see the right aileron partially separate from the wing . It went into a right bank and on low rates I did not have the rudder to correct and it crashed. I found both aileron servos stripped the left aileron horn snapped off and the right aileron ripped the ca hinges out of the wing and was hanging on by the push rod. Since it crashed nose first the wings were in perfect condition so I knew it was flutter that caused these problems. After contacting great planes they referred me to a flyer that should of been included with the kit on setting up the servos. After pleading my case to Tower hobbies and sending back the plane, I am pleased to say the replace the plane at no cost (I just had to send what was left of the old one back). I have never experienced aileron flutter this badly and hope the second build goes better. I hope anyone who does this build in the future does get this flyer and does not set up the controls as shown in the manual or they might very will end in a crash as mine did. Thanks Tower Hobbies for their support and giving me a second chance on this one..............

RE: GP performance series Extra 300sp Flutter
 

im glad they were able to help you out, Mlkissel! I would definately put 4-40 control rods on the next one. maybe even some ball joint linkages on the control surfaces.
i must say that this extra is a beautiful airplane! have fun.

robbinsp

RE: GP performance series Extra 300sp Flutter
 

The manual does not show the aileron setup all the way in.

Robin,
Why were you using Z-bends instead of the stock hardware... [sm=idea.gif]

RE: GP performance series Extra 300sp Flutter
 

where is this "flyer" GP directed your attention to?

edit:

http://manuals.hobbico.com/gpm/gpma1022-tech2.pdf

RE: GP performance series Extra 300sp Flutter
 

i was not impressed with the nylon wirekeepers. maybe thats the whole problem!

RE: GP performance series Extra 300sp Flutter
 

That is the one,

http://manuals.hobbico.com/gpm/gpma1022-tech2.pdf

it is referred to as manual 3 on the tower hobby page for the extra 300sp. Apparently it was supposed to be included with the manual. I do agree with the above comment that the manual does not show the hookup of the aileron servo links, however it does show the rudder elevator combination connected in the "EXTREMELY DANGEROUS PUSHROD HOOKUP" as referred by the tech notice flyer. I never thought their would be a problem hooking up the ailerons this way. I have a Twist with standard servos, and all the controls are hooked up for maximum throw. I have never had any problem with flutter. I did like the way the extra flew, so this time I will try metal gear servos, 4-40 pushrods and even some of those counter balance weights I saw on another post. If nothing else, its a hard lesson learned.........

RE: GP performance series Extra 300sp Flutter
 

I was looking at your pic and i was wondering if you have your servo grommet bushings installed upside down? just thought id ask since i would hate to see anyone make a mistake and pay for it like I did.