RE: Pondering a Yak
 

Where do you think the Turnigy is made? China, same as the DL/DLE. It is another knock-off of the DA design, with a few mods. The DLs have been out for several years now and have great support in parts and service, as well as a wonderful track record. I have tried most of these imports over the years, and I would rate the DL / DLE as the best of the Chinese imports to date, for the above stated reasons.

The Turnigy may well be a fine engine, but it has a long way to go to prove itself in the way the DLs have. At $239.95 for the 50, I may just try one, but please don't knock the DL. It deserves better respect.

RE: Pondering a Yak
 

I have both dl and dles, and seen one turnigy run in person. Yes the turnigy is a more attractive engine, but it will swing a 20" prop what my DLs will swing a 22" prop.. Ive also read more negative feed back on the TGY vs the DL DLE engines

RE: Pondering a Yak
 

My Turnigy swings a 22x8 prop just fine.

I wouldn't compare the Turnigy against say a 3W, but up against what is essentially another Chinese engine ( the DLE ) it compares very favorably.

RE: Pondering a Yak
 

would you put your turnigy against a DA50? Because that what DLEs compare with powerwise

RE: Pondering a Yak
 

This thread has morphed into more a debate on 50cc class engines that whether the Yak is the plane for this guy.

My recommendation is still this............Get the Yak, check out that Saito 100 and get it right if you can, and use that engine. You already have it, and it will fly that size Yak quite well.

If you are determined to go gas, go to a 120 size Yak and buy a DLE 30 for it. Unlimited vertical for sure, and an engine that will outlast several planes.

If that 100 has good compression, I'll give you $150 for it and fix it myself.:D

RE: Pondering a Yak
 

Wow guys.....calm it down. Opjose, I'm sorry but this really isn't the place for this argument. I've never seen you lose it like that. DLE's are GREAT motors. I've never dealt with a Turnigy, but that's what the OP was talking about using anyway. I'm glad to hear that he was on the right track as far as motor selection goes.

ram3500, chill out. A LOT of people have very strong opinions on which plane is better suited for what. If the answer were as simple as "Yak," there would be no need for any other planes in the WAC, the XFC, the TOC, et al. Yaks are fine designs, but it's all about flying what you like. QQ obviously likes Yaks....but he also likes Python Bipes. But does he fly Yaks for pattern? Nope! Bill Hempel is a HUGE fan of Edges. Does he do well? Yup! Does he fly anything else? Yup! Jason Noll (winner of last year's XFC) won with an Ultimate. There is simply no "best" design....aerodynamics doesn't work like that. Even if it did, people don't. Give me $100,000 for a car and I'll get a Cayman S with all the goodies and be happy on the track. Give it to my cousin, and he'll buy a Corvette C6 and be happy on the track. Do they both do well? Yup! Could either of us win on any given day? Yup!! (well, he could win if I weren't the better driver :D). Does that make the CaymanS better? No!!! If the OP likes the way his Edge flew...deal with it, let him buy another Edge-or an Extra- or any other design he could possibly want.

Kyle....if you want to go gas, I'd try a Peakmodels 25% (for example) sized airplane. A baby Edge from Wild Hare would be a good choice, too. As much as I hate the way that Extra's perform 3D, I'd bet anything that the Extreme Flight 78" Extra 300 would be an excellent performer. They'll have a lighter wing loading than the Seagull Yak and make you happier in the long run. The Seagull Yak with a 26cc gasser flies heavy. I know from personal experience, not because I've read it somewhere.

If you want to keep fiddling with your Saito 100 (which I'd recommend, b/c I've had 2 and NEVER seen them do anything but perform excellently on very little fuel with great power and reliability)....I'd recommend a Mojo 60 or an OMP profile. Profiles are ugly, but they are absolute 3D performers. You can get one with the removable wing kit and it'll be an absolute breeze to fit in your Civic. Strap an APC (or Xoar) 15x6 and you'll enjoy those things a LOT.

RE: Pondering a Yak
 

If you think this is a heated argument, you are overly sensitive, and clearly live a sheltered life.

I disagree with you on a number of issues. This is NOT about what you 'like'. It is about what flies better, and I made very clear why I feel the Yak is superior, on a design level. If you really believe that all designs are created equal, you have a lot to learn about aviation. I have over 40 years of flying RC, and fly full scale as well, and speak from an educated point of few, with many hours of stick time on all these types.

He asked about the Yak, and I told him about my first hand experience. If you can give him your first hand experience with all these types, I'm sure he would be more than happy to entertain it as well. Otherwise, thanks for the editorial on our posts, but that is useless information to this fellow flyer, IMO.

As far as Peak models goes, and the engines they offer, I would steer clear of them. At least as package deals. The planes are not bad, although they need some 'fixing' out of the box, but their engines are problematic at best, from my experience. I have spent a lot of time at the fields, helping guys to get them to run, with hit and miss success.

RE: Pondering a Yak
 

Guys Metaljunkie and I are sharing our views and opinions on these engines.

I wouldn't call this a heated arguement, just that we disagree and even then not by a lot.

RE: Pondering a Yak
 

Powerwise yes it doesn't do bad against the DA50, nor my ZDZ 50's...

But quality wise, I'd give it to the DA50 over the DLE, and the DA50 over the Turnigy...

The Turnigy has nicer CNC machining than the DLE, and is closer to the DA50 in terms of how the head is made, etc.

I have had some minor problems with the Turnigy ignition causing me to replace one of the modules.

RE: Pondering a Yak
 

Again thanks for all of the ideas, and ill explain some things form my side as well.

I had the Edge (bought it used) and was happy with it, it flew great other than the issues I have explained with the Saito. While the plane flew fine I would not say it had enough power to hover. While I like the Yak colors and potential as stated by a number of people. If I were to stay with the Saito the yak is a full pound heavier and is classified as a .90 size unlike the Edge which is a .60 though they are nearly the same dimensions other than weight.

While I would like to try gas I think it makes sense to stick with the Saito for now. So this brings the question of is there are better option of a airframe to pair up with the Saito 100 than the 2 planes I posted.

Thanks again for all the good info and I hope to try to build a test bench to mess with the Saito.

RE: Pondering a Yak
 

First off, I never called this a heated argument...I just said that this wasn't the place for that debate. And I don't care how many years you've been flying....there IS NOT A SINGLE BEST DESIGN. Thinking so is one of the most ignorant comments I've ever heard in my life, literally speaking. I'm a Sophomore Aerospace Engineer at Virginia Tech and have been on 4 different design teams and can tell you that, both mathematically and empirically, there is no way to have a "best" plane. It's simply the one you like the most. Being so vehement about it only speaks to me of the kind of person you are. Also, if you knew anything about me and still think I've had a sheltered life, I would truly pity you. PM me if you want more details, but I'll post here that I've not been sheltered. If a Yak is the best plane design, then why is it that the last time a Yak did anything productive in the XFC was a 2nd place finish by Quique Somenzini with a Somenized Yak (not even a "real" Yak design). Every other year it's been Ultimate/Edge/Extra in numero uno. That year, Jason Noll won with a Krill Katana. In 2007, a Sukhoi took second.

I've flown Extras, Yaks, Edges, Sukhois, Caps. Caps are snappy but are smooth. Extras are smooth but aren't all that easy to 3D with. Sukhois are about the same as Extras...but a little closer to the middle. Yaks are good 3D planes, but their taper ratio and slept LE gives them funky stall characteristics and makes them smoother. Edges have the prettiest stalls but are the least smooth. Sukhois and Yaks are like Extras and Edges respectively, except that the suk/yak are slightly more neutral than the Extredges. From most 3D to smoothest, my ranking for them (as a generalization of course) goes:
1)Edge
2)Yak
3)Sukhoi
4)Extra
5)Cap

As far as the factors that ram3500 mentioned in his post, there are so many factors going on that not even a GREAT (non-ITAR) computational fluid dynamics programs can account for all of it. People try and fail....and simply sound stupid in the process.



BUT....for Saito 100 airplane questions, it depends on what you want to do with the plane. Do you want a smooth sports plane that you can wring out on the off occasion or do you want a 3D monster that you can flip a switch and get a calm flight on, or do you want JUST one of either?

3D monster - profile, only way to really do it. Fliton Edge/Extra Freestyle are great, but not as good as profiles.
3D/Smooth - EF Extra 58" (your 100 will be TONS of power on it...keep everything else light!). Maybe the SebArt 50 series. Also, Hyperion has nice planes
Smooth - EF Extra, SebArt Angel, Aeroworks 60/90 (expect NO 3d from the aeroworks planes), VenusII........

I've never really been that into flying smooth :D

RE: Pondering a Yak
 

from my experience out of the three types of 3d birds i have had over the years. i rate the Yak best for 3D, the Extra best for smooth IMAC style flying the Edge probably right in the middle...but thats just my 2 cents... When it comes to doing hesitation point rolls my 2 Yaks 55s dont do them as crisp as my Extra 260, just as an example

RE: Pondering a Yak
 

I think the SIG40 Bi-Plane is a great planeto improve your flying.It has a 40 " wing and will fit in your car ok. I use to have one when i was (Young) and found it a perfect little Plane to fly.

RE: Pondering a Yak
 

Great info and maybe I would explain my goals a bit more.

I would like a reasonable sport plane I can use my Saito 100 on capable of some 3D. I'm not a huge 3D fan but would like to mess around a little with it.

The extra I had maybe tough to pass up as its only $179, but im tempted to try the yak if the saito 100 can pull it around.

I pulled the saito off the plane tonight and no damage other than I need a new manifold. Ill try to pick one up at the local store and run some tests with it.

Thanks for all of the info and if anyone has more airframe ideas let me know,

RE: Pondering a Yak
 

which company yak are you looking at ?

RE: Pondering a Yak
 

Right now a few but mainly these:

This is what I have though im replacing it as it was crashed 2-3 times before I bought it and I had the saito die on my in some wind and ripped the gear out on the dead stick landing. Rather just get a clean new airframe. Maybe even this again.
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...ProdID=SEA4000

Also looking at these:

I think this would be wicked with the Saito 100: ( I think my local store has one on sale for $160)
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...ProdID=SEA4075

Really like this plane but wondering if the saito would be enough as it is a full pound heavier than the edge I have:
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...ProdID=SEA5100

I'm between these three unless there is another option in the same range that is a better model.

RE: Pondering a Yak
 

Also I was running the saito on WildCat 2 & 4 Cycle 15% and I pulled the prop of which was a 14x8.

RE: Pondering a Yak
 

KYLE....

THE SEAGULL YAK IS A GREAT VALUE BUT YOU WILL NEED AN ENGINE COMPARABLE TO A 125 2STROKE.

RE: Pondering a Yak
 

I have seen two Seagull Yaks loose their tails in flight. There are no more flying in the clubs I belong to.

RE: Pondering a Yak
 

i know its not on your list and bit more pricey but have you looked at aeroworks yak i have seen one at our field and it was very nice and great quility im working on a 100cc right now and very impressed

RE: Pondering a Yak
 

I too have flown most styles with gas engines.......the Edge is my third favorite, the Sukhoi second, and a Yak 54 being my favorite of the three. Having said this, I did have a Lazer 2000 several years ago which was a great flying plane. Seems like it's almost a "Chevy, Ford, Dodge, etc" type of thing...............

RE: Pondering a Yak
 

so true

RE: Pondering a Yak
 

If looking for 3D in the 60-90 size, have you considered OMP RazorYak or Aeroworks Prox260 profile that was just released? Aeroworks is $50 cheaper than OMP.

RE: Pondering a Yak
 

Ditto for me on this line up. My Extra 300 and Ultimate are tie for a close #4.

RE: Pondering a Yak
 

Have you considered a Evolution 26cc gasser? I know they are a bit pricey but they have tons of power. I put one on a Areoworks 120 size yak and it would 3D all day long. It got unlimited vertical when I installed there tuned pipe on it.