Pondering a Yak
 

I'm pondering replacing a beaten Edge with this:

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...ProdID=SEA5100

and either:
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s..._V2_Gas_engine
or
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...s_Engine_3.0HP


I have a Edge with a fuel sucking Siato 100... 5-6 min flights are not enough...
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...000#quickSpecs

Thoughts?

Id like to try a small gas setup but I am limited to what will fit in a Civic. Id like to go with the best weight and reliability for the money. Im open to other airframes as well as engines. I love how the edge flew but had bad luck with the engine.

Thanks for any ideas,

RE: Pondering a Yak
 

First of all, let me just say that I am stunned that you had such a bad time with a Saito 100. I have had nothing but good experience with all the Saitos I have owned over the years, and currently have two Saito 100s mounted inverted in a P-38, running without on-board glow, with absolutely no issues. I get 10 -12 min. flights and land with plenty of reserve on 12oz tanks.

As for the Yak, none better IMO. I have flown just about every type of popular aerobatic airplane, and my Yak is the best so far. Very axial, and it just has no bad habits that I have found. You will love it, if you balance it correctly, as with anything else.

For gas engines, I prefer the rear induction (carburetor in the rear) due to the extra power (usually about 15% more) they are capable of producing at the same, or even slightly less, weight.

I have not owned either of the engines you are looking at, so I will defer to those with hands on experience with the supplied ignitions, etc.

For the size, the plane might be on the small size for a 26cc gasser. I would prefer a 120 size for that engine, which would get you in the 70s for wing span. They have continued to make smaller and smaller gas engines, but the ignition boxes seem to all be about the same size and weight. Wing loading is the key factor in a great flying aerobatic airplane. High wing loading can turn a great airplane into just an OK airplane.

I saw some new very small gas engines at the Toledo show. Much lighter than the ones you are looking at. They are due out in another month or so. Price will be less than a 4-stroke of equal power.

RE: Pondering a Yak
 

those engines are on the heavy side,,,the saito 100 weighs 550grams the xyz engine alone weighs over 900 grams....with ingntion battery , ignition module, and muffler you are looking at well over 1000 grams ..double the weight of the saito 100


you would have to add too much weight in the tail, and would not make a good 3d bird....but an alright sport plane...

imo....planes in that size category that are intended for 3D flight are better suited with glow engines , preferably 4 stroke 16x4 apc wide blade and it should haul it with authority and spin about 9k rpm

RE: Pondering a Yak
 

A guy at my field has that plane with a 26cc gasser on it, and he agrees with you MetallicaJunkie...great sports plane, simply NOT suited to 3D.

RE: Pondering a Yak
 

First thanks for the info, second my Siato 100 was purchased used with the extra and has never produced long flights. It had a 15x6 prop, and I will have to check the tank size. In the end though a 6min flight was pushing it. In its last flight the engine died on take off after a nice warm up and was running just fine on the ground. This is on a plane that had been flown a bit with no issue. I may try to bench test the engine, but also want to try gas.

Thanks for pointing out the weight difference and I will have to check how much nose weight is on the plane I have I believe it is a bit, but doubt its enough to double the engine weight.

What size are the new gas engines coming out?

RE: Pondering a Yak
 

Saito engines are known to come with a very rich idle mixture. They will run fine this way giving little to know indication (except short flight times) that the mixture should be leaned out. I have read about this a lot over the past couple of years on this forum. Just some food for thought.

I have a 69" Yak and it fits in my 2-door Civic. It has to go in the passenger door, and the rudder won't fit through into the trunk so it goes prop first. It is a little pit of a pain pulling it out of the car over the folded rear seats, but a little 'ramp' over the bump there would fix that.

Here is an exact copy (except for covering) of the plane I'm flying, just for reference of what can fit in the car. You can go just slightly bigger.
http://www.hiflymodels.com/product-2...tid1=2&rid=212

RE: Pondering a Yak
 

What size tank and prop are you running? I have an AW Edge with saito 100, using OS F plug and Xoar 15x6 prop. I get 9 minutes of flight with decent amount of reserve.

RE: Pondering a Yak
 

Let me also confirm that!

I was flying my plane for a while but I never seemed to get a reliable idle...

I found the needle was over 11 turns OUT from ideal, even after leaning the engine!

And the engine still ran this way... wow.

The advice that I was given which ultimately worked very well, was to lean the engine to the point that it stops, even at 1/4 throttle.
Then back off until it runs again.

That did the trick for all of my Saitos. All have been incredibly reliable, to the point that I favor Saitos over any other four stroke glow engine...

RE: Pondering a Yak
 

There is a huge forum on the SeaGull Yak 54 if you just do a search on it. I have one with a Brillelli 26 gas engine on it. I'm just waiting for the field to dry out. Maybe next week.............JB

RE: Pondering a Yak
 

If you want to get into gas and wanted a 30cc plane there are a lot of planes that will 3D with these engines just take a look at the gas engine forum. The 2 that come to mind are the Syssa and the DLE 30, Dle is comming out with a new rear carb version of thier 30 very soon wait for the rear carb version. Valley View RC has several planes in this size that would be great. Extream Flight is or will be comming out with an extra in the 30cc size very sonn if they have not already.

The 30cc engines out now have no problems swinging 18 to 19 inch props.

Gas is the Only way to go!!! Save money and fuel.

RE: Pondering a Yak
 

First let me say that if you are only getting 5-6 minute flights on that .60 Edge you have not tuned the Saito yet!

I had the same problem on my larger Funtana S90 which I still fly with the Saito 1.00.

I too clocked 5-6 minutes initially.

Once I discovered that this engine is capable of running incredibly rich, I cranked everything down as I previously indicated.

My 5-6 minute flights turned into 15-18+ minutes... same plane, same fuel tank, same prop, etc. BIG BIG difference!

-

I also have both of those engines.

The XYZ is a nice enough engine but it's power output does not conform to what the web site says.

I'm barely able to clock 6800 RPM on an 18x8 prop, which works out to about 1.8 HP, far less than indicated.

The Turnigy does a much better job and it will spin the same prop MUCH faster. So it's power output levels are much better.... say around 2.4+HP...


Contrast that with the Evolution GT26 which seems to produce it's full rated output power, well over 3hp. Of course the latter is a more expensive engine too.


I also prefer the rear induction not only for the reasons already stated, but they are easier to cowl and tune... your fingers can be further away from a spinning prop, giving you the opportunity to tune the engine while it is running.

I find that latter gives me more accurate and easier tuning, than the start-check-stop-tune-start-check-repeat cycles...

RE: Pondering a Yak
 

Have a link handy?

Also would anyone comments on the Edge vs the YAK? MY thought was the Yak is a little heavier so it may take a small gas better, but if I can get my siato running it may make more sense to get another Edge. I could fix my current one but I bought it used and it had been crashed a couple of times before I ripped the gear out. I rather get a new airframe.

Thanks for all the info, and keep the advice coming.

RE: Pondering a Yak
 

I own Edge's and Yaks of various sizes.

I prefer how the Yak flies over the Edge.

I find that my Yak's do not snap as easily as the Edge, and are much easier to hover and perform 3D with... not that the Edge is bad...

RE: Pondering a Yak
 

One other piece of advise is you get what you pay for so if you buy cheep you get cheep and not so reliable. I have had Da, Dle, First Place, Syssa, Fox, and a bunch of Junck engines like the XYZ dont waist your money and time on the junck engines if you cannot work on them. Stay with Da, DLE, Syssa, or Zenoah from Ralph Cunningham.

RE: Pondering a Yak
 

You might want to get a profile from OMP or a Mojo 60 if you're looking into really doing some 3D. Other than that, you're going to want to jump to a DLE-30 and something like a Peakmodels 25% Yak/Edge.

I prefer the way Edges fly to the way Yaks fly....but it's all personal preference.

RE: Pondering a Yak
 

Ah the "you get what you pay for " argument...

Unfortunately that is not always true.

All too often the inexpensive engines may be manufactured in exactly the same plants as the more expensive ones.

So you may actually end up paying for the brand name, when you may believe you are getting more because of an increased price...

I'll stack the Turnigy against my DLE's any day... Even my "junk" XYZ has a nice CNC finish, Walboro carb, CNC aluminum piston, and trivial parts availability from both U.S. and Asian sources... though the Turnigy is better made from what I can see.

At the Toledo show I had no problems finding U.S. vendors there selling parts for the XYZ, RCGF's, etc.

RE: Pondering a Yak
 

Oh, one more note, I HATE the way that Extra's fly....just wanting to let you know.

RE: Pondering a Yak
 

Kyle1745.......just do a search at the top of this forum. It will definately show up, as it has 45+ pages to it................JB

RE: Pondering a Yak
 

Kyle1745; I should have said to start your search at the top of the "ARF & RTF" heading.....JB

RE: Pondering a Yak
 

So comparing the yak to the edge any difference or will they fly rather similar. I like how the edge flew but the color scheme on the yak is nice. With that said I may look to go electric... Would be interesting.

RE: Pondering a Yak
 

theres no way a TGY can compete with a DL/DLE 50/55 based on both what ive seen and read

RE: Pondering a Yak
 

Are you actually reading any of this?

Again, THE YAK IS SUPERIOR TO THE EDGE!!!!! And a lot of others. I say this having flown them all. Extra 260, Extra 300 and 330, Cap 20, Cap 21, Cap 232, Edge 540, Sukhoi, Laser 200, Giles, Stadauker, One Design, and a bunch more. I attribute this to several things. The triple taper wings, the location and size of the horizontal and vertical tails, the size of the rudder in relation the elevators, the size and shape of the ailerons, the location of the wing in relation to the thrust line, and the round cowl with it's natural breaking abilities on the down lines.

Now this superiority is over the entire range of performance both 3D and pattern type flying. Planes like the Extra 260, Laser 200, Edge, and One Design, excel at pattern type flying, but the Yak crosses over into another dimension of flying as well.

The Yak will make whatever you were able to do with the Edge better, plus you will be able to do more.

Opinions vary, but I doubt you find someone, with any stick time on a Yak, that doesn't appreciate it's capabilities, and the bigger the better IMO.

I also agree that the DL / DLE engines are among the best coming out of China. They have exceptional power, are moderate in cost, and will last for years.

RE: Pondering a Yak
 

Yes I read them..

I do though already have a siato 100 and feel the yak maybe a bit much for it. There were also a couple of people saying they love the edge.

RE: Pondering a Yak
 

As I have said, the Edge is a fine plane. You know this having flown yours. So are many of the others I mention. The Yak will just do everything even better that the Edge, for the reasons I stated, and do more.

That Saito you have is not running well for some reason. If you could get it sorted out, you would have a fine combination. If the compression and bearings are good, nothing is bent or damaged, you are using good 15% 4-stroke fuel, she has an OS 4-stroke plug, and it is adjusted properly, it will run very well on less than average fuel consumption. The Saito 100 is a great engine. No reason a healthy Saito 100 can't pull a 60 size Yak all over the sky.

RE: Pondering a Yak
 

With all due respect...

Do you have both?

I do, so this does NOT come from reading...

The DLE is another Chinese made engine.

The Turnigy is better made....