hilleyja

My Feedback: (3)

OK Red,

What is today's reasonably priced charger that will do it all?

I'm currently running a Dymond Super in my workshop, connected to a 25amp DC power supply and a Hobbico MK field charger. The Hobbico is the only charger I have that will charge my single 1200mah 11.1 volt Lipo. I charge my Gell-cell field box battery with the 12volt wall-wart. I also have a peak detector charger for motorcycle batteries (have used it on the gell-cell but think it may be too much charge current)

Is there anything out there that will do it all or what is your recommendation for my needs. Cost is important, which means the Alpha is out-of-the-question.

Red Scholefield

My Feedback: (9)

There is no charger that will do it all (whatever one considers all) regardless of the price. Some are very good in one respect while falling short in another. Even with a new charger/cycler coming out every week they still have not been able to cover all the bases. That being said, this weeks pick is the new Multiplex LN 5014 that should be available this month. An excellent buy in the US$85 range.

Now if some would put down the requirements for what they consider the charger that will do it all perhaps a manufacturer would pick up on it . . . Oh, state also what you would be willing to pay for it.

Here's my list. Not necessarily in order of priority.

1. Independent multi port (4 minium)
2. User progammable rates, peak sensitivity, voltage/current limits, time, discharge cut off.
3. NiMH, NiCd, Lipo, Lead Acid capability
4. 30 volt capability for any battery type.
5. Operate from AC or 12 v DC.
6. 10 Battery Memory
7. Slow charge capability (voltage, mAh, timed cut off).
8. Computer interface for recording voltage & current simultaniously.
9. Software to combine up to 10 charge/discharge curves for comparison.
10. Discharge capability up to 150 watts - provision for external load (ESC and motor) to take it to 500 watts.
11. Cycling capability (up to 10 cycles) with memory to store data from each.
12. 64 character 4 line Back lit Digital display, volts, current, watts, Ah, time, end of charge peak, average voltage.
13. Constant current/constant voltage with programable limits and taper function.
14. Plug in or download software updateable.
15. Computer or manualy programable
16. Price point $250
17. Max size 8 X 5 X 1.5.
18. Max weight 2.5 lbs (1 kg)
19. Programmable audio alarms
20: Input/Output reversal/overvoltage protection
21: Nominal carryover capability with power outage (with battery connected).

JNorton

My Feedback: (2)

Red,
I'd buy one in a heart beat!

John

hilleyja

My Feedback: (3)

Red,

All is relative. For me, I am not into electric RC that much so don't really need the fancy charge curves, etc.

I will watch out for the Multiplex LN 5014.

kdarr

Red,

Is the Multiplex unit that is coming out a peak detection charger or just timed? Also, how large of a battery will it charge etc? I'm think I'm going to attempt to get an Alpha4 in the 7/19 lottery...Is that still wise with all these other chargers coming out at such a low price. Also, one other charge I've been researching is the Hughes RC charger & cycler, how do they rate?

thanks,

Kevin

Red Scholefield

My Feedback: (9)

The Mulitplex LN 5014 is a peak charger for Ni-Cd and Ni-Mh, Lithium and PB are constant potential, current limited. It will charge up to 5 amps, which should be enough for about anything we use in our models. I have two Alpha 4s doing the bulk of my flight and transmitter pack charging.

Highflight

My Feedback: (4)

I had been using my Alpha 4's to do ALL my TX and RX charging up until recently because I just never had a desperate need for anything except NiCads.
But now, I'm seeing where other types of batteries would work great for me and I'm a little disappointed that Litco hasn't kept up and come out with a "new and improved" Alpha 5 that would better handle other batteries besides NiCads.

I think I'll take your recommendation and get the LN 5014 when it comes out for my other batteries, but I'm going to miss the 4 ports like on the Alpha.
I bought one of the first Alpha 4's way back when (WAY before the lottery days) so I was with Litco from the beginning. It sure was nice for all those years to be able to keep up with ALL my batteries with just the Alpha 4's. Somebody tell Peter to get in gear and bring out the "next gen" Alpha.

Highflight

martyg

My Feedback: (42)

As an added charger requirement, I think immunity to supply voltage fluctuations should also be taken under account. Most of us use these chargers (at least some of the time) plugged into automotive electrical systems. It has been my experience that cheaper chargers will be more prone to false peaking in this environment. My Super Turbo and Triton are awful for this, but my Alpha and Sirius boxes have never had any issues.

Might I suggest this be added as a test for future reviews?

Josey Wales

My Feedback: (61)

Does the Multiplex charger have a trickle mode?

Maudib

My Feedback: (51)

I love my Sommer Miniron Mobil...

5 ports, 2 amps total, Lion and Lipoly support.

As most of my planes now use lion, 5 ports is important.

Add to that the capability to charge NiCads, NiMHs and Lead Acids and well... I just love it.

It's not an e-flier charger, for large e-packs, but it's great for the guy who has a good mix of batteries, and leans toward Lion.

The downside for some might be the auto cycle in 3 days... BUT... I always diconnect my packs/planes after fully charged... Lion loses next to nothing over time.

I have NEVER had the charger go into the 3rd day autocycle. Just isn't an issue.

There is a new firmware that addresses somethings... maybe the ability to disaale that feature is there...

Even if not, it's the one charger that "for me" seems to offer the greatest combinations of features that makes my charging chores a non-issue.

J. David

Highflight

My Feedback: (4)

It seems to have great specs, but how come no one's buying it?
The distributor has noted that there will be no more sales of the Miniron in North America.

Just wondering.

Highflight

Maudib

My Feedback: (51)

The distributor couldn't make any real money on it. The Euro has really been munching the dollar.

I expect a larger distributor with more capital will add the Sommer line. At least I certainly hope so.

Why isn't it as popular? Well again, a fella working from his garage (nothing wrong with that I do) made a deal with Sommer...

This ended up stifling sales with very little marketing. Long waits due to low inventory didn't help...

Well hopefully we'll see a bigger player pick them up... maybe MRC.... they seem to like doing business with Europe.


Still, all in all, I wouldn't trade a Miniron for a Lotto charger anyday.... that charger has just the opposite problem. The manufacturer has no vision. If he would sell it to a real company like FMA, FUtaba, JR, HiTec.... we'd see it finally updated to Lions/Lipoly.

As it is, it's quite antiquated.

Most every thing that has been considered "bad" about the Miniron was either admittedly personal preference or features not being cared for. As with all thing there are ways to intergate ANYTHING in your life.... they call it work arounds...

But at least I can work around the 3 day cycle.... I can't work around lions on the Litco...

Josey Wales

My Feedback: (61)

The only thing Im waiting for is for them to get rid of the auto-cycle program..

Red Scholefield

My Feedback: (9)

From my review:

Jeers: No on/off switch – unit is powered up whenever supply is connected. Common positive buss is incompatible with charging multiple packs with a common ground. Needs the 12-volt AC transformer or a higher voltage DC supply to take full advantage of capability.

Miniron is on the conservative side charging LiPo packs, taking them to slightly less than a full state of charge by setting the voltage limit to 4.066 volts rather than the 4.2 that assures full charge. This would result in charging the pack to something on the order of 90% of capacity.

Upon input power interruption the Miniron defaults to what ever the settings were prior to the power interruption.

Topping charge/Trickle charge
It is the considered opinion of the reviewer that there should be a topping charge (usually C/10) after the charge is terminated by some form of peak detection. This is required to balance out the pack and make sure all cells are at a full state of charge. To determine if such a charge existed one cell in a four-cell pack was completely discharged and then had a shorting jumper placed across it. The pack was then charged in the normal fashion until the charge is terminated. At that time the jumper across the one cell was removed. With the battery still connected and supposedly on trickle or topping charge the unit was allowed to go for 48 hours. After this the cell that had been fully discharged was again discharged to see how much capacity had been returned. It was found that no capacity had been restored to this cell after the 48 hours. The unit did however indicate 4 cells were present and the cell voltage of the shorted cell had returned to what would normally be expected after an open circuit stand, something over one volt. This was relayed to the manufacturer and his response follows.

Dr. Jürgen Sommer

“We have our own system of trickle charge. If the voltage of the battery underruns a certain threshold, then a short pulse charges the battery. You will see this after the terminating of automatic charge after some time. Directly after finishing normal charging the voltage of the battery is too high to see the charging pulses. If you look at the LCD display after some time after auto cut-off you will see that the charger tries to fix the battery-voltage above a certain value.

The trickle current depends among other things on the capacity as before discharged. After 3 days the battery will tested by a discharge/charge cycle, so the charger knows the capacity of the battery and therefore the correct trickle charge current. The discharge/charge cycle will repeated every 15 days to check the battery and to detect the risk of battery failure.�

I found the people a Sommer extreamly arrogant whenever I reviewed my findings or wanted clairification on a point.

Perhaps my techniques were not sufficient to verify the topping charge and their technique of cycling the battery every 15 days to “detect the risk of battery failure� is unique to say the least.

CAUTION NOTE: Since the Miniron defaults to whatever the last setting was for that port unless changed, you must make sure, particularly when charging lithium packs that you change the battery type to Lithium. You have approximately 10 seconds to make this change when you first connect a battery or the unit defaults into the same charge regime that was previously set for that port. This could have dire consequences if a lithium pack is subjected to a Ni-Cd or Ni-Mh charge regime. Fire or explosion could result.

Josey Wales

My Feedback: (61)

I was told from Mike in the Multiplex forum that it (Multiplex LN 5014) does have a trickle charge in cas anyone else was interested

Maudib

My Feedback: (51)

Hi Red,

Your review is dated Feb, 2004 and it is nearly 1.5 years later.

There have been a couple ROM revisions that address some things... one being they seperated the Lion/Lipoly charging modes. Perhaps they have addressed some of the minor issues you mentioned?

Current revision is 3.71(I think) and I am awaiting 3 of them for me and my two buddies chargers). They don't HAVE to be sent to Germany to upgrade, if you are proficient in soldering.

I am, by no means, a battery guru like yourself. I just want to fly, and want to know enough about this stuff to make sure I am "taken care of".

I like the fact that the Miniron ports retain last programmed info. In the event of a power failure, I certainly would not want to have to re-program each of the 5 ports, nor would I want the charger to default to NiCAD on a Lion lead!!!

In addition, I find that when installed with my planes... the ports are labeled to where they go. Like this:

Port 1: Yak Receiver Lion
Port 2: Yak Ignition NiCD
Port 3: Double Vision Receiver Lion
Port 4: Double Vision Ignition Lion
Port 5: Transmitter NiMH

When I return from a day of flying I can simply plug everything back into it's port on the plane without having to worry about reprogramming the charger.


As far as being conservative on Lion charging... well... I think that's just fine with me. EVen at 90% on my 4800 mah lions I'll have approx. 4300+ capacity and feel somewhat safe that the charger isn't trying to squeeze every drop out the battery and perhaps risk overcharging and the subsequent fire hazards.

I have found I can fly all weekend on one charge, several flights per day.

If I really cared about a switch on the charger, it would be easy enough to add one inline, but my power supply has one on it...

As far as the manufacturer being arrogant... well... what can I say. Not sure that failure to recognize the rising popularity of Lion/Lipoly and creating a Lotto approach to marketing a product doesn't put that manufacturer in the same arrogant position as well.

The caution note on Lithium... The same caution is included with most every charger... but since the charger retains port programming, you can expect the ports to be ready for the same battery chemistry as before. Should you decide to plug a different type pack into the port you are given ample opportunity to change from a Lithium mode to some other. In addition, when a Lithium mode is selected, it BEEPS multiple times when requesting number of cells, giving you yet another audible warning to heed.



I did have a couple questions on your info, and again, mostly ignorant ones...

I thought that if a discharged cell was placed in series with charged cells that it would draw charge from the other cells? How come the one you tested didn't draw any charge in the 48 hour test period? Also... in real life, what situation could occur that this could be an issue? A shorted or weak cell? If so, would the Litco announce the bad cell as well or would you have to be looking for it?



Again, I don't want to appear combative, but I use Lions and Lipolies in addition to my NiCDs and NiMHs. The Litco just isn't an option for me unless I want to buy several different chargers. Across the board the Miniron offers me the greatest flexibility in one charger. Chemistries, ports, total charge capacity, ease of programming, etc.

I will admit if one was only using NiCDs and NiMHs, the Litco would be less expensive and offer ample capabilities to those users. But the ordering process is VERY annoying, the no sales to Pennsylvania because Litco doesn't want to become a legitimate business and pay state sales tax is certainly subject to criticism, and the simple comparison of less ports, 1/2 the overall charge current capacity and the lack of Lithium chemistries.

Seems to me that these differences would AT LEAST make them EQUAL in value and be equally marketable to those with differing needs. Yet you seem to go out of your way to discourage the purchase of the Miniron and I can't really see a solid reason for it.

It seems as if somewhere down the line your opinion of the Miniron has been tainted, perhaps by the arrogance of the German Manufacturer, I don't know. But maybe if you had the opportunity to test a more recent revision charger and took into count the giant-scaler that utilizes Lithium chemistries as well as NiCD/NiMH

Maudib

My Feedback: (51)

I would tend to agree... I don't care for this feature except during the off season, when the batteries will be cycled every 15 days. I'd love the ability to enable/disable this feature... don't know if the 3.17 offers this ability or not...

Still can you give me a scenario when the 3 day auto-cycle might "bite you"? Take into consideration the time of day when you would return home from flying and start the "3 day countdown clock" and the time when you would leave for the field for the next flying session.

Also, if you primarly use Lithiums, you can just disconnect the charger once they are topped off... they lose virtually no capacity over a reasonable time period.

In reality, I find that I disconnect the charger the next day regardless. Before I head to the field, I top off any NiCDs/NiMHs in less than an hour or so or hopefully so because if they lose more than that after just 3-7 days, I want to know about it so I can throw it away...

Red Scholefield

My Feedback: (9)

I have the latest ROM version installed. It didn't change the overall operation significantly.
Sometimes the market is a good judge of product. If the Miniron is such a hot item one has to ask why it has not been picked up by a US Distributor as it seems to have what all have been clamoring for.

Maudib

My Feedback: (51)

Thanks for the explanation... I guess I thought if it was hooked up to the charger it would have some continuity...

You used the word "pulled" from the U.S. - did Sommer decide to no longer sell to U.S.?

Whew... sure am glad I got mine.

Josey Wales

My Feedback: (61)

I agree that the auto-cycle is a non factor for Li-ions..I was thinking more about my TX..I keep it on Trickle all the time and usually fly on weeknights..so without actually charting out times and such I COULD run into that charge/discharge cycle on a day I want to fly..Now that being said obviously I could keep track of the programs and just reset it when needed but Id rather not have to worry about it at all..Im slowly switching to Li-ions but my TX will stay NIMH for a while..I would like my next charger to be able to handle all types since Ill be getting a foamy as well..I already have a Fromeco for Li-ions so I just need something for LIpos and NIMH..thats why I was interested in the Multiplex...

Red Scholefield

My Feedback: (9)

See post #10 http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=3160897

I've sent an e-mail to Dave Keisling, Starflight Aircraft Factory, use to handle USA sales to see if he is still carrying it.

Red Scholefield

My Feedback: (9)

I've got on cooking right now with an Astro wattmeter in the charge circuit to the battery, I'll let you know if it indicates any charge current after the peak termination.

Red Scholefield

My Feedback: (9)

Just got a message from Dave Keisling, Starflight RC Aircraft. He is negotiating with Sommer to inport the Miniron for North America. He presently has one unit in stock if anyone is interested. He also reported that a new V3.74 EPROM is available.

Maudib

My Feedback: (51)

It's good to hear Dave is working on the distributor deal... not sure why Aerografix stopped, but I'd have to think it has something to do with shipping to the U.S. market, customs, etc...

I bought 3 from Roger just shorty after the Toledo Show 2004... Even if I had to buy direct, I would...

Cool on the new EPROM... I wonder what changes they have made in addition to the 3.71...

The 3.71 addressed a couple issues you mentioned earlier like undercharging Lithiums... that's why I asked if you had tested the latest version...

I don't have the 3.71 yet.... it's on it's way... maybe I'll get the 3.74 instead....

Here's a list of some of the changes 3.71 made:

+ Two new cutoff settings have been added for the Lithium-based batteries: 4.1V cutoff for Lithium Ion and 4.2V for Lithium Polymer.

+ The loading/charging parameters for the high capacity Lithium Polymer battery packs have been adjusted to facilitate obtaining the maximum possible battery charge in the minimal amount of time.

+ The ability is now present in the software of the charger to choose between a manual or automatic adjustment of the current level for charging Lithium-based battery packs.

+ The new software now allows the user to choose either the automatic or a manual adjustment of the current level when charging/discharging Sealed Lead Acid batteries.

+ The new software includes general improvements to optimize the functions and capabilities of the Miniron Mobil charger.

Josey Wales

My Feedback: (61)

Thanks Red..