Hi, I am new to the electric rc hobby and would like to set my plane up to run on A123 cells.

I bought a calmato 1400 ep(46oz minus motor battery and esc) trainer. It has a brushless motor rated at (960kv, at 350w, 5.5oz) and I plan to power it with two 4s2p packs. I want to run this through a phoenix 60 esc, or a phoenix 45 if I can get away with it.

After a conversation in another forum I learned that those two esc's internal bec could not handle a 4s pack and I would need to buy a esc without a bec and then add an external, or cut the red wire on the two mentioned above and use an external bec. Also possible to just take the weight penalty and get a rx battery pack, but I would rather not go that route.

My questions are this.

1. How does this combinatin look to you experienced electric rc pilots. I wanted the best combo of duration and power I could come up with. I was torn between two 4s packs(according to motocalc provided almost 20 mins on full throttle) or a single 5s pack. Which combo makes more sense to the experienced pilot? Is 20-30 mins too long to fly at one time anyway?

2. For those using a123 cells.....how many are you running on your esc, and what type of esc are you using.

Thank you for the time you took reading this post.

Any other suggestions you can add would be most appreciated. Look forward to hearing from you electric pilots familiar with A123 cells.

You can get by using 4S A123 on a CC Phoenix 45 if you have very good hinging and control setup as in no binding. It is best to use a seperate BEC and I use the ones fro Dimension Engeering . Thier Sport BEC would be the best one to use for this aircraft .

I fly a 3D Hobby Shop Extra 300 SHP 47" with an all up weight of 47 oz. on a 4S 2300 A123 batter with a Scorpion 3026-10 motor . This is a 1000 watt max. motor and produces 600watts on 4S. Most of the flying is at 1/2 to 2/3 throttle(around 300-400 watts) and I get 6 minute flights.
If flown like a trainer flights would be closer to 8 minutes. IMO 8 minutes is plenty long even for a trainer however everyone has different wants.

A 2P battery 4600mAh would atleast double your flight times.


If cost is not a major issue it is always best to purchase a larger ESC as it can be used with bigger more powerful setups down the road.

Todd's Models has good prices on CC Phoenix ESCs.

Charles

My opinion- if you need a new ESC, get the one with internal switching BEC- look around
I like the new EFlites -the 60 is a hum dinger
or get a quality ESC w/oBEC (I really like the 75 ALIGN) The ALIGN is a heli ESC and has 200 steps -making it extremely smooth and set on max aggressive modes - my favorite .

Whatever you do -do NOT undersize the ESC -this will lead to unexpected cut outs from overheating -especially (as I found out) at half power !
Also, don't try to setup for max amps AND max voltage - you will almost certainly, exceed max watts and the over temp cutout will trip
get a whattmeter --- lock the entire model and power setup to a bench and make deliberate full power runs of say 5 sec onds -read the power setup on the whattmeter . increase prop load (or decrease it) till you find a nice safety margin for motor and ESC

Thanks Hanson for the advice. I was thinking of the C.C. hv model as my esc. after realizing an internal one would not work. Do you think the align models are better than a C.C.? I did think the programming feature on the C.C.'s was pretty slick. Would love to hear about these "steps" you talk of and how that would benefit a flyer. I have read quite a few posts and have not heard the term yet. I would assume it must be like a gearing of some sort...and more steps would produce a smoother/finer response? As for the setp advice....I guess I will have to purchase a wattmeter...they sound very helpful.

Everyday...thanks for the post. I was hoping you might pop in. I have read many of your posts and you seem to know your stuff, and are very helpful. Thank you for the advice on the external bec. I was ready about a week ago to purchase all my parts thinking I had a good understanding of my needs, and the parts compatability. I took one final glance at the C.C. esc specs and noticed it would only run three cells properly. I then paniced and came back to rcu for some more reading. Glad I did. Excellent to see your real world experience. I will have to digest your specs a little more to understand your system and how it may relate to mine.

What is your opinion on C.C hv esc's. Would you still recommend the dimension? Thanks for all the help and advice.

theALIGN is achopper ESC--the200 steps, refers to increments thru total stick power range.
so---thisis asmooth power setup.
youwill require a BEC- a SPORTBEC by Dimension Eng--is ....a good one.
mainly do involved aerobatics stuff-somy opinions arebased on quick performing setups.

I was just showing that even a CC Phoenix 45 can be used with a 4S A123 2300 pack at up to over 600 watts and still be just fine. 600 watts on a 4S means I was pulling over 60 amps.
These were limited burst as the aircraft withan AUW of 47oz. with the 4S has more tahn 200 wats per pound which means if the nose is pointed striaght up and WPT is applied in a very brief time it gets very small.

My son flys an Eltrifly (Horizion ) Mini Edge 540 with a CC Phoenix 25 a 4S 2300 A123 pack and Parkflyer 480 motor and uses the built in BEC with 4 Hitec HS 55 servos and fly 3D / sport / pattern with it. I do not recomend using the built in BEC with over 3 cells but it can be done. We both fly Spektrum radios (DX7) and they do not drop out / reboot.

Charles

Very helpful, thanks guys. I am always glad to know which products are of high quality....I only like to buy things once.

I checked out the dimension bec, and it looks nice. A little higher rating than the C.C. bec I was also going to purchase. One thing I noticed was the Dimension only let you choose between 5-6 volts, where the C.C. one lets you go up to 9 volts. I know I won't even need the 6 volt setting on my trainer yet, but it does sound usable making servos respond quicker as skills progress or flying style demands. Is the 9 volts on the C.C. overkill? Would a person ever need anything more than 6 volts?

Who knows what tommorow will bring however at present not that many receivers / servos can be used at greater than 6V.

Everyone keep wanting faster more powerful servos. I get amused at times . One of my frequent flyers is an 18 year old Sig Fazer which I converted to electric. It still has the original Futuba 148 servos in it. yes they are slow and yes they are weak and yess they have a bit of play in them as they are not even BB but it flys just fine thank you.

Charles

EverydayFlyer,

First I must say thank you for the time you take to share your experience and knowledge. I have read thru many of your posts in trying to learn about A123 cells and electrics in general. Your time and efforts are appreciated.

I am also interested in a 3D Hobby Store plane, the Velox, and was looking thru various setups and plugging them into MotoCalc. Can you tell me more about your setup. 200 wattts per pound sounds fun and exciting. Flight times are also nice at 6 minutes (I am ready to rest fingers after 6 minutes).

Any suggestions for learning how to find a good setup? I feel like I am chasing my tail with MotoCalc.

My EXtra 300 SHP setup has been posted many times.....Scorpoin 3026-10 APC 13X6.5E or 12X8 and 4S or 5S A123 2300 cells.

For most with the Velox I believe that

Scorpion 3020-12 ,APC 13X6.5 ,4S A123 would be a better setup. That is what I use in my Extreme Flight Yak 54E.


Charles

Thank you EveryDayFlyer,

Sorry I did not search for your set up on the SHP and had not yet seen any posts regarding its setup.

Help me. I ran your setup thru MotoCalc. Then the one you suggested. And the one suggested by 3D Hobby Shop, the Torque 814 820. From the numbers the Torque perfromed the best. Then your SHP setup. Then the one you thought would be better for the Velox.

Now I am most confused. And I just started to think I was getting my small mind around this stuff. Not sure what to think now.

Jack all I can say is that my Yak 54E 47" had the recomended Torque 2814/820 in it (purchased ready to fly minus ESC and receiver) and I flew it around 60 flights with 4S A123 packs and I did not like it. It would hover but had no punch out. If the nose droped you could not pull it back up.

I changed to the Scorpion 3020-12 and it now has enough power to blast out of a hover.


Atlanta Hobby sales Torque motors and so does 3D Hobby Shop, neither one sells Scorpions.

I use to purchase AXI motors and now I purchase Scorpions insteed and no I do not get a discount.


Have a look here:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...03#post8640603
Charles

Thanks for the link.

Seems some manufaturers must overstate performance to get sales. Some must understate to give us a nice surprise. Looks like Scorpions are a nice surprise. Time to go shopping.