Battery problem.
06-11-2008 | 07:40 PM
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From: tooele, UT
Battery problem.
I just got a brand new Venom 4600mah nimh and I charged it fully for the first time and I picked it up and it was really hot. And it was making a really quiet sizzleing/bubbleing noise.
What is going on?
Its not supposed to do that is it?
What is going on?
Its not supposed to do that is it?
06-11-2008 | 08:16 PM
#2
RE: Battery problem.
That's not normal behavior. What charger did you use and what charging rate did you set? It sounds like you either charged it too fast or there's a short somewhere.
06-11-2008 | 08:28 PM
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From: tooele, UT
RE: Battery problem.
I charged it at 4 amps and with a Prophet Plus charger.
Now I have to sent the brand new pack and car back because the battery melted the damn chassis. No!!
Now I have to sent the brand new pack and car back because the battery melted the damn chassis. No!!
06-11-2008 | 09:06 PM
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From: Wichita, KS
RE: Battery problem.
This is discussed over and over again here on RCU. New Nimh packs need to be Form charged at C/10 and discharged at C/5 for 2 to 3 times (while monitoring the pack intermittently for heat) before fast charging. Below is from Hangtime Hobbies website, his business is batteries.
Q: What's up with 'Formation Charging'? Can't I just charge and fly a new pack?
A: The term 'Formation Charging' describes the initial charge/discharge 'forming' process that fully activates the 'chemical engine' and balances the cells in a new pack. NiMH packs have a particular need for repetitive c/10 charge/cycle conditioning, a 'break-in' procedure needed to get them to full rated capacity. Both NiMH and Nicad packs benefit from the process and the intent is to make sure that any new pack has been verified to be fully operational and that a 'start-up' capacity number is established for the pack before it's put into service. To 'Form' a new NiMH pack do three 10% 16-24 hour charges followed by a 300 to 500 ma discharge routine between each charge. In other words: Do a slow charge at the slow charge rate (or as close to it as you can reasonably get with your equipment) as shown on the pack label. Charge till the pack is warm, followed by a controlled discharge with a cycler. Do it 3 times. The recommended Formation Charge/ Slow Charge rate for our packs is printed right on the label of the pack as well as on the data card the pack was shipped with. New Nicad packs should get at least one slow charge followed by a 300 to 500ma discharge. Record the capacity numbers reported by your equipment for comparison cycling as the pack ages. Never check your brain at the door! As one respected modeler put it, "There's nothing more suspect than a new battery pack." Before you fly anybody's pack be certain it's fully operational and safe to fly.
Q: What's up with 'Formation Charging'? Can't I just charge and fly a new pack?
A: The term 'Formation Charging' describes the initial charge/discharge 'forming' process that fully activates the 'chemical engine' and balances the cells in a new pack. NiMH packs have a particular need for repetitive c/10 charge/cycle conditioning, a 'break-in' procedure needed to get them to full rated capacity. Both NiMH and Nicad packs benefit from the process and the intent is to make sure that any new pack has been verified to be fully operational and that a 'start-up' capacity number is established for the pack before it's put into service. To 'Form' a new NiMH pack do three 10% 16-24 hour charges followed by a 300 to 500 ma discharge routine between each charge. In other words: Do a slow charge at the slow charge rate (or as close to it as you can reasonably get with your equipment) as shown on the pack label. Charge till the pack is warm, followed by a controlled discharge with a cycler. Do it 3 times. The recommended Formation Charge/ Slow Charge rate for our packs is printed right on the label of the pack as well as on the data card the pack was shipped with. New Nicad packs should get at least one slow charge followed by a 300 to 500ma discharge. Record the capacity numbers reported by your equipment for comparison cycling as the pack ages. Never check your brain at the door! As one respected modeler put it, "There's nothing more suspect than a new battery pack." Before you fly anybody's pack be certain it's fully operational and safe to fly.
06-11-2008 | 10:10 PM
#6
RE: Battery problem.
ORIGINAL: clamber
Wow, I wish somebody would have told me that.
What exactly does it mean by "discharge"?
Wow, I wish somebody would have told me that.
What exactly does it mean by "discharge"?
06-11-2008 | 10:11 PM
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From: Perrysburg,
OH
RE: Battery problem.
ORIGINAL: rcairflr
This is discussed over and over again here on RCU. New Nimh packs need to be Form charged at C/10 and discharged at C/5 for 2 to 3 times (while monitoring the pack intermittently for heat) before fast charging. Below is from Hangtime Hobbies website, his business is batteries.
Q: What's up with 'Formation Charging'? Can't I just charge and fly a new pack?
A: The term 'Formation Charging' describes the initial charge/discharge 'forming' process that fully activates the 'chemical engine' and balances the cells in a new pack. NiMH packs have a particular need for repetitive c/10 charge/cycle conditioning, a 'break-in' procedure needed to get them to full rated capacity. Both NiMH and Nicad packs benefit from the process and the intent is to make sure that any new pack has been verified to be fully operational and that a 'start-up' capacity number is established for the pack before it's put into service. To 'Form' a new NiMH pack do three 10% 16-24 hour charges followed by a 300 to 500 ma discharge routine between each charge. In other words: Do a slow charge at the slow charge rate (or as close to it as you can reasonably get with your equipment) as shown on the pack label. Charge till the pack is warm, followed by a controlled discharge with a cycler. Do it 3 times. The recommended Formation Charge/ Slow Charge rate for our packs is printed right on the label of the pack as well as on the data card the pack was shipped with. New Nicad packs should get at least one slow charge followed by a 300 to 500ma discharge. Record the capacity numbers reported by your equipment for comparison cycling as the pack ages. Never check your brain at the door! As one respected modeler put it, "There's nothing more suspect than a new battery pack." Before you fly anybody's pack be certain it's fully operational and safe to fly.
This is discussed over and over again here on RCU. New Nimh packs need to be Form charged at C/10 and discharged at C/5 for 2 to 3 times (while monitoring the pack intermittently for heat) before fast charging. Below is from Hangtime Hobbies website, his business is batteries.
Q: What's up with 'Formation Charging'? Can't I just charge and fly a new pack?
A: The term 'Formation Charging' describes the initial charge/discharge 'forming' process that fully activates the 'chemical engine' and balances the cells in a new pack. NiMH packs have a particular need for repetitive c/10 charge/cycle conditioning, a 'break-in' procedure needed to get them to full rated capacity. Both NiMH and Nicad packs benefit from the process and the intent is to make sure that any new pack has been verified to be fully operational and that a 'start-up' capacity number is established for the pack before it's put into service. To 'Form' a new NiMH pack do three 10% 16-24 hour charges followed by a 300 to 500 ma discharge routine between each charge. In other words: Do a slow charge at the slow charge rate (or as close to it as you can reasonably get with your equipment) as shown on the pack label. Charge till the pack is warm, followed by a controlled discharge with a cycler. Do it 3 times. The recommended Formation Charge/ Slow Charge rate for our packs is printed right on the label of the pack as well as on the data card the pack was shipped with. New Nicad packs should get at least one slow charge followed by a 300 to 500ma discharge. Record the capacity numbers reported by your equipment for comparison cycling as the pack ages. Never check your brain at the door! As one respected modeler put it, "There's nothing more suspect than a new battery pack." Before you fly anybody's pack be certain it's fully operational and safe to fly.
However, not doing this should not cause a battery to vent. If you have a defective cell a forming charge may reveal it without the cell venting, therefore a safer way to go. But charging without forming shouldn't cause a good cell to go bad and vent.
My first charger didn't even have a slow charge option. I'm not saying this was a great setup or even that it is good for the batteries. However, I have never had a Ni-MH battery fail on me like clamber's did. Some Ni-MH batteries even say not to trickle charge them right on the package. Not saying that they are correct, but I don't think they could say that if all their batteries overheated and vented when fast charged without a slow forming charge.
Having said all that, all batteries have a maximum safe charging amperage. I would check with the manufacturer to find out what the maximum safe charging rate is for that battery (and any others you might buy to replace that one).
Edit: By the way, I'm not saying that you shouldn't do a forming charge on a new battery. It is safer and better for the battery. I just don't think that not doing it should cause a battery to vent unless there was something else wrong with the battery.
06-11-2008 | 10:13 PM
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From: tooele, UT
RE: Battery problem.
Ok. So Im sending the batter pack back, and in turn I am getting 2 3600mah associated packs.
Is my Dynamite Prophet plus a decent charger?
Also, since I dont have a discharger what could I do to discharge it? Anything? After I charge it at 1 amp for the first time what do I do next?
Is my Dynamite Prophet plus a decent charger?
Also, since I dont have a discharger what could I do to discharge it? Anything? After I charge it at 1 amp for the first time what do I do next?
06-11-2008 | 10:15 PM
#9
RE: Battery problem.
True, not forming a pack, while a good practice, will not cause all of your batteries to immediately vent. He probably had a weak/bad cell or a short.
06-12-2008 | 07:03 AM
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From: Newberry, FL
RE: Battery problem.
Sorry, but a good Ni-Mh battery that is unformed can gas and vent if it is hit with an abusive charge rate of nearly 1C. Since the material has not been properly formed it cannot accept charge at these rates. The energy going into the cell then goes to heat which can cause the electrolyte to boil - which results in venting as evidenced by the "sizzling/bubbling noise" noted by the user.
06-12-2008 | 07:17 AM
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From: Laconia, NH
RE: Battery problem.
ORIGINAL: Nathan King
True, not forming a pack, while a good practice, will not cause all of your batteries to immediately vent. He probably had a weak/bad cell or a short.
True, not forming a pack, while a good practice, will not cause all of your batteries to immediately vent. He probably had a weak/bad cell or a short.
Hitting it with a 4 amp charge for the first charge will vent cells in many packs.
Now if he had started with 1 or 2 amps it probably would have been fine without a form charge. But form charging is the way to go.
06-12-2008 | 08:38 AM
#12
RE: Battery problem.
ORIGINAL: Red Scholefield
Sorry, but a good Ni-Mh battery that is unformed can gas and vent if it is hit with an abusive charge rate of nearly 1C. Since the material has not been properly formed it cannot accept charge at these rates. The energy going into the cell then goes to heat which can cause the electrolyte to boil - which results in venting as evidenced by the "sizzling/bubbling noise" noted by the user.
Sorry, but a good Ni-Mh battery that is unformed can gas and vent if it is hit with an abusive charge rate of nearly 1C. Since the material has not been properly formed it cannot accept charge at these rates. The energy going into the cell then goes to heat which can cause the electrolyte to boil - which results in venting as evidenced by the "sizzling/bubbling noise" noted by the user.
06-12-2008 | 09:02 AM
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From: Perrysburg,
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RE: Battery problem.
Red, I'm sorry too. I don't want to spread bad information and you have far more experience than I do. I've taken pretty good care of the batteries I've purchased over the last couple years (patience comes with age
). But I've also done my fair share of throwing new batteries right on the fast charger and I've never had a failure like that. I guess I've been lucky. Thanks for seting me strait.
). But I've also done my fair share of throwing new batteries right on the fast charger and I've never had a failure like that. I guess I've been lucky. Thanks for seting me strait.
06-13-2008 | 09:27 PM
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From: tooele, UT
RE: Battery problem.
Okay, I got a new battery, and Im charging it at 1 amp. It will take like 4 hours so once its done I am going to go outside and test the lights on it, and drive it until its empty or I might just charge it now, and wating til morning.'
Is there anything wrong with charging it now and then waiting 10 hours to use it?
Is there anything wrong with charging it now and then waiting 10 hours to use it?
