I am going to fly my Phoenix strega tomorrow, I have set it up for spoilerons to drop it out of the sky a little faster for landing because of a limited runway. Today I was thinking about mixing in a little bit of up elevator for a more stable drop. I saw a you tube video and someone set up a mix of 25-30 degree spoileron to 10 to 20 degree elevator up setup on a plane. Is this a reliable way of mixing? I have never tried spoilerons before so I dont know much about it.

Any ideas or advises on this?

I use spoilerons on all my larger gas models. I only deploy them after touchdown. Its like haveing brakes on the model. I have deployed them while in the air & the planes become allmost un controllable at large throws. I would start out at 5 degrees at first if you want to deploy them in flight. It doesnt take much to kill your lift and push the wing towards the ground. If you are looking for short rollouts after landing, i use as much throw as i can get......Gene

We have had many discussions about spoilerons and flaperons. Some like them, some don't.

My main objection with them is that you use the spoilers or flaps in conjunction with the ailerons. So, if you put 20 degrees flaps in, you loose 20 degrees of aileron effectiveness. Same for spoilers.

There are other ways of slowing the plane down than using spoilerons or flaperons. I just wouldn't use them on smaller aircraft.

Just my opinion, here, and not based on anything but personal expreience with using them on one plane with mixed results, AND a reduced effectiveness of ailerons when you may need them the most.. during approach and landing.

CGr.

This will have the opposite effect that you described expecially that high a ratio. It will destabilize the landing approach. You are clutching at straws to fly the airplane in an area too small as described by you in another thread.

Key to landing any aircraft full scale or model on a short field is not destabilizing the approach with a chamber mix to the elevator. No what you must do is stabilize the approach.

Now one additional thing you can try is to reflex the ailerons a bit but not mix them to the elevator. Simply extend the aileron pushrods both sides the same number of turns to effect the trailing edges to be up no more than 1/16 inch at the trailing edges when in neutral.

This is a popular rig for our racing and sport flown Pheonix Strega's....

However in the end I must say it agine if your flying spot is truly only a hundred and fifty foot runway and thirty foot trees as you described then no amount of gimmickry on that airplane is going to help in fact mix's are going to make it worse. Of that I have no doubt.

John

As in your previous thread, I say no to flapperons and yes to split flaps; since you want to slow the plane and make it clear the trees next to the landing strip.

Deploying spoilers is like cuting the wings to the plane in midair; resulting in fast fall.

Deploying flaps is like adding extra wings and attaching a parachute to the plane in midair; resulting in slow approach.

I may be wrong, but anyhow, be careful today and give little deflection to the spoilerons at the beginning and increase the angle little by little in each flight.
I hope it works for you.

I wish I had a Strega!!![]

My experience with flaperons and spoilerons has depended on the wing type. With a tapered wing, flapperons increase lift more at the tips because of the ratio, making it more stable. Spoilerons have the opposite effect, making it tip stall much easier, far more unstable, and you will need even more speed on landing. Flapperons will work if you have a real slow approach speed on final, if you come in normal, then deploy them, you will float right past the runway. Practice up high and see how slow you can get it. I use them on pattern planes and they get rock solid on approach.

The best will still be split flaps, but that may take some re-engineering.

Spoileron is an erroneous term. Spoilers deploy just aft of the center of lift disrupting lift and creating a rapid descent without adding airspeed. On a symmetrical airfoil all you are doing is creating negative lift and negative incidence, which as stated earlier will just destabilize the A/C. If you want to shorten your landing add just a little flaperon, and learn short field landing techniques. Bring the plane in over the trees as if you are going to touch down at the end of the tree line. you should time it so that the point you would flare is right were you need to start your descent. As you cross the edge of the trees drop the nose a little, this will cause it to drop towards the runway, you will pick up just enough speed to level out and flare. If done correctly you will not balloon or float, but just flare to a nice slow (for that plane) landing. Your setup and approach will do more for your landing then any amount of mixing.


*Edited for spelling*

All of the above advice is right on the money. You are wanting to use the wrong equipment for the wrong reasons. Spoilers do just that, they spoil lift. When spoilers are deployed your wing looses lift. When the wing stops to produce lift it is no longer flying and you will have very little control over the plane. If you couple that with your situation of trying to drop into a runway that is small and has not approaches (because of 30' trees) you are working with a perfect recipe for disaster. Spoilers do not slow down your plane at all. It will continue move at the same speed as before the spoilers deployed, however that speed will not be producing any lift so the plane will be falling out of the sky.

RC gliders use spoilers to simply do what I have said above, make the plane quit flying. They usually are used to "spot land" a glider in a target circle on the ground. When the spoilers deploy (at a couple inches altitude) the glider will simply drop to the ground, but still moving just as fast.

Ken

Thanks for all the input. So its better for me to just go around couple of times if it doesnt feel right, instead of playing with the planes aerodynamics . So far I have landed to this spot 4 times safely and it was just hard , so thats why I keep coming up with ideas like this.

I will ask my wife to record one of my landings so you guys can see what kind of runway Im dealing with. I sweat like a pilot trying to land to Kai Tak.<br type="_moz" />

If you are running 2 aileron servos and have a 6 channel radio, flaperons are just a radio setup without messing anything up. You don't have to use them, but you can see if they help. Be conservative and start around 15% and try it first 3 mistakes high and get used to flying the plane slower. See if it tends to tip stall and at what speed.

Also pay attention to wind speed. When landing into a decent breeze, many pilots tend to keep the same ground speed on approach, not realizing they can get a lot slower because of the breeze on the nose. As cfircav8r said earlier, pratice coming over the trees (up high at first) just at stall speed, then drop the nose a bit to avoid the stall, flare and land. When I learned landings (over 30 years ago) it was at a State Park where I had to make it over the telephone wires then drop down into the field. Kind of sink or swim. So when I teach people to land, I have them spend a few sessions just flying around the field just above stall speed, because when you are already lined up on approach, it's a bit late to start thinking about bleeding off speed. The problem is, once we get past our trainers and move on to hotter planes, we sometimes forget to get used to flying the new plane slow

I have the spoilerons on my CG Extra set to a switch. I have used them way up high and the plane will drop in very fast but that plane wants to tip stall on the way down. I don't fool with them any longer. I have a HOTs with the flaperons slaved to my elevator on a switch too, that's fun to play with when the wind is blowing but on a calm day when landing it too wants to tip stall. If you need flaps you can split the ailerons and make real flaps inboard on the wing but I would try a three blade prop just for grins. It's like puting air breaks on a plane and will slow it down fast.

Learn to slip it in with rudder on high rates. You can drop like a rock without gaining speed or losing control. You can also use it when you realize you are coming in too hot, much better than doing a go round, and can save your plane on a dead stick. A very useful technique.

slipping is my favorite technique. Right now I fly on a large field but I have trees on either end to avoid. This is no problem for my smaller EF Extra 300EXP but is much more difficult with my Reactor. The Reactor is very slick and you cannot point the nose down or it will float all the way down the field. Learning to slip correctly takes some practice. I normally add in opposite rudder while in the final turn. For a left final turn you use right rudder or vise versa. I just use full rudder deflecton and balance the model using opposite ailerons. Once settled into a good slip the plane will fall VERY fast. Practice this maneuver high up or at a different field till you get the hang of it. Good luck!

Excellent tip!

The pilot in the video had to negotiate a landing with a step approach and a short runway.
He used flaps (increased lift + drag) and slip (increased drag) for a stepped but slow and controlled descend.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fTS-fKX13U

You have to be very careful using flaps and a side slip. The flaps can disrupt the smooth air over the elevator causing a sudden pitch down, and low to the ground we all know how that turns out. Cessna's are very susceptible to this and if you notice in the video the slip was quite a bit less then the A/C is capable of doing. If you are going to try this with any A/C definitely practice it at altitude.

I am sorry you totaled your Strega stssa but the outcome was pretty predictable trying to do a self checkout on that airplane after only having flown some parkies, at a totally inadaqute flying site and an attempt to rely on inappropriate aerodynamic gimmeckry to make it work and last but not least refusal to seek experianced on hand help i.e. a mentor.

This story is oh so common and predictable, the manufacturers do love it so.

I sincerely hope you will continue to seek the dream with some help (one that you will listen to) next time.

John

I didn't know you couldn't float this plane in. Mine floats with a 55ax all day.

And, I'm at 5,000 feet

It's not a matter of can the airplane float in, it's more a matter of can the pilot.