What do I do with this covering job?
11-08-2010 | 02:43 AM
#26
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RE: What do I do with this covering job?
I don't even want to tell you how many ARF's I've bought both with Monokote and Ultracote that had wrinkles....lots of wrinkles and a lot of them I just couldn't get out. I've been building for 30+ years and done a lot of covering and when I slip into the ARF situation I have to look at the covering job and what I can do with it and say good enough is perfect. You want a perfect covering job? Build the thing yourself.......ya ain't gonna get a perfect covering job on an ARF, you'll get one that is satisfactory but that is it.
11-09-2010 | 08:59 PM
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RE: What do I do with this covering job?
Well I still havent heard from GP. I wrote to them on Sunday and then again reminded them yesterday. I wrote to [email protected]. Any other suggestions?
Ameyam
Ameyam
11-09-2010 | 09:10 PM
#28
RE: What do I do with this covering job?
ORIGINAL: ameyam
Well I still havent heard from GP. I wrote to them on Sunday and then again reminded them yesterday. I wrote to [email protected]. Any other suggestions?
Ameyam
Well I still havent heard from GP. I wrote to them on Sunday and then again reminded them yesterday. I wrote to [email protected]. Any other suggestions?
Ameyam
if i contact habbico, they take 1-2 days..........air support is the same for me.
is calling Towers 800 number doable from where you are?
i'd personally not contact air support, but go directly to Tower orders first if emailing.
11-10-2010 | 03:06 AM
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RE: What do I do with this covering job?
Contacting Tower over the telephone will be difficult due to the difference in time zones. I will write to them in the evening and see what happens
Ameyam
Ameyam
11-10-2010 | 08:59 PM
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RE: What do I do with this covering job?
Copy of reply from GP.
"I'm sorry to read about the covering issues. I've attached a link to abulletin that our R&D Department put together for tightening covering on ARF modes. The advice in the bulletin should help you address issues like this in the future. However, it appears that your covering may have gotten too hot and separated. At this point, I could send you some new covering to replace the covering on the model. If you would like that, please give us your address in India.
http://manuals.hobbico.com/top/tighten-covering.pdf"
I have replied to this email asking them to directly send me a replacement lower wing as I dont intend to have a patch on my brand new airframe. Lets see what they answer
Ameyam
"I'm sorry to read about the covering issues. I've attached a link to abulletin that our R&D Department put together for tightening covering on ARF modes. The advice in the bulletin should help you address issues like this in the future. However, it appears that your covering may have gotten too hot and separated. At this point, I could send you some new covering to replace the covering on the model. If you would like that, please give us your address in India.
http://manuals.hobbico.com/top/tighten-covering.pdf"
I have replied to this email asking them to directly send me a replacement lower wing as I dont intend to have a patch on my brand new airframe. Lets see what they answer
Ameyam
11-10-2010 | 09:13 PM
#31
My Feedback: (-1)
RE: What do I do with this covering job?
Something tells me your SOL on this. I have my doubts they are going to send you a new wing. Any and all ARFs are going to have covering problems, it's the odd one that doesn't. They are shipped by container and go through a lot of temperature and humidity changes just getting here to the states by boat. Then if they are shipped to India by air they are shipped in the unpressurised cargo bay of a jet, that helps the covering in no way. Add to that mono doesn't always shrink even if you covered the plane yourself, well??? Then you tried to remove the wrinkles yourself and the covering pulled away??? I hope you can work it out with tower but it's long odds. I know how you feel though and hope tower will work with you on this.
11-10-2010 | 11:54 PM
#32
RE: What do I do with this covering job?
They are treating you right. Tightening up the covering on an ARF is standard procedure. It is not possible for every ARF to arrive with tight covering. And if they tried, our costs would increase substantially with the extra time and labor involved in putting the covering on that well. The end user has to iron down the edges and shrink the covering in a few places. You did it wrong, and they are offering to send you new covering to fix it. If you trim the bad covering off neatly no one but you will know that the plane has been worked on.
11-11-2010 | 04:12 AM
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RE: What do I do with this covering job?
Well, I am looking at the odds and hoping for a replacement wing. Lets see. If not, they will atleast send me some monokote to patch up the stuff. However, if we dont ask for help from them when we receive badly finished goods, they wont help us no matter what the case. I may settle for the monokote later but first I will want to explore all options.
Gray Beard, I didnt re-cover it myself, just tried to tighten their covering.
Jester, I didnt do it wrong. If I had, the wrinkles would not have gone off all other aileron tips. The reason it appears that I did it wrong is that I tried to get the same results with the same efforts first and when I didnt get the results, I tried harder. You can see the difference between the pictures I posted first and then later.
I can very easily patch the covering myself but if I wanted to do that I would have bought it ready-to-cover. So let Tower first say they wont help so I will know what to expect next time
Ameyam
Gray Beard, I didnt re-cover it myself, just tried to tighten their covering.
Jester, I didnt do it wrong. If I had, the wrinkles would not have gone off all other aileron tips. The reason it appears that I did it wrong is that I tried to get the same results with the same efforts first and when I didnt get the results, I tried harder. You can see the difference between the pictures I posted first and then later.
I can very easily patch the covering myself but if I wanted to do that I would have bought it ready-to-cover. So let Tower first say they wont help so I will know what to expect next time
Ameyam
11-11-2010 | 06:30 AM
#34
RE: What do I do with this covering job?
ORIGINAL: jester_s1
They are treating you right. Tightening up the covering on an ARF is standard procedure. It is not possible for every ARF to arrive with tight covering. And if they tried, our costs would increase substantially with the extra time and labor involved in putting the covering on that well. The end user has to iron down the edges and shrink the covering in a few places. You did it wrong, and they are offering to send you new covering to fix it. If you trim the bad covering off neatly no one but you will know that the plane has been worked on.
They are treating you right. Tightening up the covering on an ARF is standard procedure. It is not possible for every ARF to arrive with tight covering. And if they tried, our costs would increase substantially with the extra time and labor involved in putting the covering on that well. The end user has to iron down the edges and shrink the covering in a few places. You did it wrong, and they are offering to send you new covering to fix it. If you trim the bad covering off neatly no one but you will know that the plane has been worked on.
to bad the economy is so jacked up, becuaes in the past, GP would have simply sent a new wing out.
11-11-2010 | 10:15 AM
#35
RE: What do I do with this covering job?
I'm not sure how Hangar9 fits into the conversation because they sell a wrinkly airplane sometimes too, but I do still think that Great Planes is doing their part. The low prices we enjoy come from quick mass production, and occasionally a part gets through that is not finished well enough. The wing is functional, but unattractive. Sorry if I sounded insulting ameyam, but if the covering pulled away from the seams then you either shrunk it with the seams not tacked down well enough or you heated the seams accidentally while shrinking the covering. I'm sure if your wing came broken they would replace it, but a small covering repair is hardly reason to expect that.
11-11-2010 | 12:25 PM
#36
My Feedback: (-1)
RE: What do I do with this covering job?
I never saw Hanger 9 mentioned either. The only difference between H-9 and Tower is the old Mono vs Ultra debate. They both send out ARFs with wrinkles and bubbles, it's the nature of the beast and you just have to live with it. I do find Ultra easier to work with and it tightens up with far less trouble and work. I have assembled ARFs for people over the years that I think were covered with tacky shelf paper, some of these were easier to shrink up then others.
If you are going to buy ARFs you will usually have bubbles and wrinkles when you open the box, makes no differnece who is selling the plane.
If you are going to buy ARFs you will usually have bubbles and wrinkles when you open the box, makes no differnece who is selling the plane.
11-11-2010 | 12:46 PM
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From: Poolesville, MD
RE: What do I do with this covering job?
Nothing a heat gun cannot correct in short order. I've received many planes that way.
An experienced hand can fix that in a couple of minutes... the problem lies with newbies trying to do the same.
They are not used to dealing with covering temperatures and will either set things too cool, or too hot.
The temperature range between a good fix and failure is quite small.
The gun has to be hot enough to bubble up the covering and start the plastic stretching, but add just a bit more heat and the covering will melt and rip.
An experienced hand can fix that in a couple of minutes... the problem lies with newbies trying to do the same.
They are not used to dealing with covering temperatures and will either set things too cool, or too hot.
The temperature range between a good fix and failure is quite small.
The gun has to be hot enough to bubble up the covering and start the plastic stretching, but add just a bit more heat and the covering will melt and rip.
11-11-2010 | 01:05 PM
#38
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RE: What do I do with this covering job?
Ok, I am a newbie at this but I did tack down the covering all around, I have specifically mentioned that in the first post. There were a lot of bubbles there- in the wings & fuse and I was able to iron everything down and removed the bubbles using "high" setting on the iron. And I did apply heat to the seam but that was because thats where the fold was. Then, two points to consider- one, the orange part is just trimcote, there is no seam there, it was applied on top of the white basecote and second, I did the same thing with the undersurface where there is no trimcote and I wasnt able to get all the folds off there either.
Anyway, this discussion is now becoming academic as Tower wrote back to me asking for my address to ship the replacement wing
. Only thing is they indicated they will post it, in which case I fear it will get stuck in customs / suffer mishandling. So I wrote back to them asking them to combine it with my next order wherein I will be ordering similar sized parts and which will come by UPS so it wont get stuck in customs. (I will also be ordering a proper heat gun then)
Ameyam
Anyway, this discussion is now becoming academic as Tower wrote back to me asking for my address to ship the replacement wing
. Only thing is they indicated they will post it, in which case I fear it will get stuck in customs / suffer mishandling. So I wrote back to them asking them to combine it with my next order wherein I will be ordering similar sized parts and which will come by UPS so it wont get stuck in customs. (I will also be ordering a proper heat gun then)Ameyam
11-11-2010 | 01:39 PM
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RE: What do I do with this covering job?
An iron will not do it.
You need a heat gun for covering.
An iron presses things down as is.
A heat gun lets the covering release a bit, so it can be smoothed down with a mitt.
But get the temperature wrong or apply the gun too long and the covering will tear.
Apply it too little and nothing will change... it's a fine line...
What you refer to as "trim covering" is just standard covering.
TopFlite sells a special "trim covering" that is not the same as Ultracoat or Monocoat.
The top flight stuff does not really stretch and contract with heat. It's cut to shape and applied purely as trim. It is sold in strips not rolls and is much thicker than standard covering.
You need a heat gun for covering.
An iron presses things down as is.
A heat gun lets the covering release a bit, so it can be smoothed down with a mitt.
But get the temperature wrong or apply the gun too long and the covering will tear.
Apply it too little and nothing will change... it's a fine line...
What you refer to as "trim covering" is just standard covering.
TopFlite sells a special "trim covering" that is not the same as Ultracoat or Monocoat.
The top flight stuff does not really stretch and contract with heat. It's cut to shape and applied purely as trim. It is sold in strips not rolls and is much thicker than standard covering.
11-11-2010 | 04:49 PM
#40
RE: What do I do with this covering job?
ORIGINAL: Gray Beard
I never saw Hanger 9 mentioned either. The only difference between H-9 and Tower is the old Mono vs Ultra debate. They both send out ARFs with wrinkles and bubbles, it's the nature of the beast and you just have to live with it. I do find Ultra easier to work with and it tightens up with far less trouble and work. I have assembled ARFs for people over the years that I think were covered with tacky shelf paper, some of these were easier to shrink up then others.
If you are going to buy ARFs you will usually have bubbles and wrinkles when you open the box, makes no differnece who is selling the plane.
I never saw Hanger 9 mentioned either. The only difference between H-9 and Tower is the old Mono vs Ultra debate. They both send out ARFs with wrinkles and bubbles, it's the nature of the beast and you just have to live with it. I do find Ultra easier to work with and it tightens up with far less trouble and work. I have assembled ARFs for people over the years that I think were covered with tacky shelf paper, some of these were easier to shrink up then others.
If you are going to buy ARFs you will usually have bubbles and wrinkles when you open the box, makes no differnece who is selling the plane.
the facts that have been posted to justify GP prunes are not valid in a Hangar9 arf, and both of you know exactly what was meant.
as well as the fact that both you and jester would be the first to scream bloddy murder if the same thing came to your doorstep as did the OP.
11-11-2010 | 04:50 PM
#41
RE: What do I do with this covering job?
ORIGINAL: ameyam
Ok, I am a newbie at this but I did tack down the covering all around, I have specifically mentioned that in the first post. There were a lot of bubbles there- in the wings & fuse and I was able to iron everything down and removed the bubbles using ''high'' setting on the iron. And I did apply heat to the seam but that was because thats where the fold was. Then, two points to consider- one, the orange part is just trimcote, there is no seam there, it was applied on top of the white basecote and second, I did the same thing with the undersurface where there is no trimcote and I wasnt able to get all the folds off there either.
Anyway, this discussion is now becoming academic as Tower wrote back to me asking for my address to ship the replacement wing. Only thing is they indicated they will post it, in which case I fear it will get stuck in customs / suffer mishandling. So I wrote back to them asking them to combine it with my next order wherein I will be ordering similar sized parts and which will come by UPS so it wont get stuck in customs. (I will also be ordering a proper heat gun then)
Ameyam
Ok, I am a newbie at this but I did tack down the covering all around, I have specifically mentioned that in the first post. There were a lot of bubbles there- in the wings & fuse and I was able to iron everything down and removed the bubbles using ''high'' setting on the iron. And I did apply heat to the seam but that was because thats where the fold was. Then, two points to consider- one, the orange part is just trimcote, there is no seam there, it was applied on top of the white basecote and second, I did the same thing with the undersurface where there is no trimcote and I wasnt able to get all the folds off there either.
Anyway, this discussion is now becoming academic as Tower wrote back to me asking for my address to ship the replacement wing
. Only thing is they indicated they will post it, in which case I fear it will get stuck in customs / suffer mishandling. So I wrote back to them asking them to combine it with my next order wherein I will be ordering similar sized parts and which will come by UPS so it wont get stuck in customs. (I will also be ordering a proper heat gun then)Ameyam
11-12-2010 | 10:16 PM
#42
RE: What do I do with this covering job?
Wow summerwind, I'm impressed that you know so much about me. I would be unhappy about the covering if it showed up that bad, but I'd fall a bit short of screaming bloody murder. I'd spend some time with the iron and heat gun and have it tightened up in a little while. If that process ruined the covering like it did with the OP, I'd expect replacement covering.
And I have seen H9 covering be wrinkly too. An Alpha showed up at the field on training day once that was so wavy that I would have been scared to fly it. It did fine though, and some of us explained how to tighten it up later. It's a fact of life with ARF's that they are going to get wrinkles during transport and also probably leave the factory with a few. I'd prefer that to them shrinking the covering drum tight and using up all the shrink so that I can't fix it when it loosens up later. The OP's plane was shoddy work, but nothing to get too upset about.
And I have seen H9 covering be wrinkly too. An Alpha showed up at the field on training day once that was so wavy that I would have been scared to fly it. It did fine though, and some of us explained how to tighten it up later. It's a fact of life with ARF's that they are going to get wrinkles during transport and also probably leave the factory with a few. I'd prefer that to them shrinking the covering drum tight and using up all the shrink so that I can't fix it when it loosens up later. The OP's plane was shoddy work, but nothing to get too upset about.
12-14-2010 | 09:31 AM
#43
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RE: What do I do with this covering job?
OK, I give up. I received two Bipe lower wings from GP (By the way, how come? I asked only once). The first one had the same wingtip folds as the original and the second I received with a big hole in the lower part of the wing covering. Now, it is far easier to get some white monokote and patch the holes or cut off and replace the wrinkled part if required than contact GP and have them send another.
Ameyam
Ameyam
