Ok, here's the deal. About 9 years ago i was 15 and my uncle got me into model airplanes. He is a very experienced modeler however he was not an AMA member because he disagreed with a rule they have about only flying his planes at the club. Which is understandable because he lived on a farm and had pleanty of his own land in the country to fly. He learned to fly himself through trial and error and didn't seem to have too hard of a time. Back then i had flown planes with him many times however I have never actualy landed an airplane. I built 3 ARF's when I was a teenager (which I never flew by myself) and then i dropped out of the hobby until now because of my limited funding as a teenager. I recently purchased a Tower Trainer .40 RTF and I am about to start on my first kit (an 8' Senior Telemaster). Here's where my problam comes in incase you all were wondering if this is going anywhere. I have been in the navy for 5 years and am stationed far away from home in the "armpit" of California (Lemoore). My uncle isn't around to help me with my planes and the closest AMA club is 35 miles away. It just doesn't seem practical for me to drive that far to fly my planes when there are pleanty of open fields in the area i'm in. So what i realy want to know is what exactly is so hard about landing a model airplane that it requires hours of time with an instructor? Why can't I just try it myself? Trainers are supposed to be easy to fly and it's not like I haven't seen someone else land them 100 times. I felt prety confident that i could do it before I joined this site, but with everything I've read I'm having doubts. What are my chances of successfully landing this thing and how exactly do I do it. I guess that's all I'm really after is some advice on how to land. I'll take any flying advice that i can get. Thanks

Your right, its very easy to land an airplane, the trick is to be able to use it again to take off. There are a lot of subtleties in taking off, and landing and also what takes place in between the as a general rule you will use up a lot fewer models with some experienced instruction. It would be well worth the 35 mile drive to get some club instructor help. Also you will learn an awful lot associating and talking with other fliers. By the way I drive over 50 miles (one way) to fly on a good flying field and to be able to be with other flyer's...I am not a beginner either... and I am still learning. It would be very difficult to give you any really meaningful instruction without being able to demonstrate and have you experience the procedures with hands on guidance of an instructor.

Good luck and good flying

If you are not willing to drive so far away then get yourself a simulator. I had no instructor and I teached myself on the simulator. Went to the field and flew the airplane flawlessly(ofcourse it was a trainer)

OK first off, your uncle had been sadly misinformed about the AMA. There is not nor has there ever been an AMA rule that says you can only fly at a club site. There are no AMA fields, The AMA charters clubs and not fields or locations.


As far as going it alone if thirty seconds flight time till the first repairs or rebuilding is OK then go for it. If not then you might want to heed the good advice you have been reading on this board. A thirty five mile drive a few times is an incredibly cheap price for the lifetime of satisfaction this sport can become. Without that drive you will just end up another who has wreaked their airplane in solatude and disappeared forever.

Hopefully you will see the light because beleive it or not we want to see you succeed and become a contributor here.

John

i would say since u are not a complete beginner you........STILL HAVE TO MAKE THAT 35 mile trip. at least 2-3 times till you know how exactly to fly and land that thing(ur plane) well.

you can get a sim. but they are expensive(at least they are here) and they cost about the price of a new ARF and oh yeah did i mention that they are not real thing??!!
so the bottom line is go fly with some ppl who have more experince with flying and you will a lot more about flying and as well about the planes/radio etc.

good luck and cheers.

Ok folks, you talked me into it. I agree it would definatley be safer for me to learn with an instructor. However if the club has any rules stating that I can only fly my planes at the club I can't garruntee I'll always follow them. When I am proficient at flying I'd like to have the option of comming home from work and taking my planes out to a field without having to burn a tank of gas driving to the club. Thanks for all the advice.

Once you've mastered landings and have decent recovery reflexes, there's no reason why you can't fly where and when you like, except for public liability in the case where you hit someone/somthing or start a fire etc. If you're sensible about these issues, it shouldn't be a problem.

While I learnt with an instructor, I also played with the FMS simulator - it's free, and definitely helped me get going and meant I only had one or two flights with an instructor before doing my own thing.

Check it out:

http://n.ethz.ch/student/mmoeller/fms/index_e.html

Russell.

tesmith,
If the club tells you that you have to fly at their site, they too are mistaken. As John has already mentioned, your uncle was misinformed. The AMA simply says that you must follow the AMA safety code, which does spell out how the site should be laid out, where spectators need to be (behind the pilot); that sort of thing.

From what I've seen, many RCer's believe that the AMA requires you to fly at specific sites. I am not sure how this idea started, but it is in everyones' best interest that most flyers do (obvious safety reasons).

Personally, I'd be worried about flying my planes in my backyard if I knew there were people potentially flying 1/4 mile away. This is the reason many are concerned with all the Park Flyers that are cropping up. There's a park 1/2 mile from our club's field, and if a couple people start using the park, there could be problems with frequencies.

Anyway, you didn't say how long ago you were making those flights with your uncle, but I'm assuming it was about ten years ago. I'm betting you'll be flying after work, close to home, pretty soon. I'd guess something like 4 or 5 sessions, maybe 10 to 12 flights, and you'll be good to go.

Good luck, have fun, fly safe, and let us know how it goes!
Dennis-

I probably should't be talking here because I am a beginner, but this is my situation. I am a farmer and fly on my own land. I flew one time for about an hour on Realflight to get a basic feel for it. Then I put FMA Co-Pilot on my Alpha trainer and I've flown perhaps twenty-five flights successfully (albeit with some bounce on a few of the landings) and I'm over the hump now. I fly it hard and low and do crazy things with it and it's a lot of fun. I am now ready to turn the gain down on Co-Pilot a bit. I expect to crash it eventually but that no longer relates to to whether I started with an instructer (or not). What I'm saying is that you may want to get Co-Pilot, crank the gain to the max, and never look back. I understand the position of those that are adamant about instructers, but I believe that Co-Pilot reduces this element down to a time or two rather than some cumbersome drawn out formal affair. I hope I haven't offended any instructers here.

I can tell you this, without Co-Pilot, I would have had about seven balsa showers by now. That little jewel has really saved my bacon. Now to slowly reduce the dosage.

One crash will cost way more than the gas to drive to the field. You will save a ton learning with someone and you will learn a lot. Heck, you may even make some new friends that will be friends for life. Some of my flying buddies are great friends and we do a lot more than just fly.

Its good that you're going to try an instructor.

Flying with a group is MORE FUN than just flying by yourself, so using the instructor might let you meet a group to fly with.

The biggest reason to use an instructor is the first 30 seconds of your first flight. No Sim gives you real situational awareness, and once you get off the ground (and you probably will) you're at a high risk of crashing until you get the feel of the airplane.

AND, landing is not easy. Its certainly learnable, but landing a glow trainer successfully is the hardest part of learning to solo.

I've been flying for 18 months, and looking back I just can't see why you wouldn't try an instructor.

Some people have bad experiences, and there are probably really bad instructors, but most of the people who trumpet learning to fly on their own seem to have done it out of sheer pride and stubbornness.

That's fine, as long as you are willing to take the risk of destroying the model and possible causing damage to people or property, but I just don't understand why you wouldn't at least try an instructor. If only for one session, to avoid that first 30 seconds.

Have fun.

Plowboy

Of course you should be talking here and your input 'is' as important as anybody here. While I am obviously of the opinion that every one should seek aid, the path you have chosen can work for some people but of course there are many that cannot read instructions and succeed in that path. A fact that becomes painfully obvious when reading some of the posts in this forum.

In regards to the flight stabilization systems of which I am aware: the Israli BTA, Futaba Pa-1/2 and the copilot I have had experiance only with the BTA. The fact is I do agree with you and beleive they can be an effective aid under certain conditions.
The only down side is they all seam to need some sort of initialazation or adjustment and without an experianced pilot to do that to properly flight test a new airplane and to trim the all the normal adjustments then set the 'auto' systems there is danger of destroying the airplane before the electronics systems can properly perform their magic.


There are no experts, only survivors

John
I congratulate you on your success to date.

Flying is fun. But it's kind'a like a Jetski, it's more fun when there's another Jetski along.
Flying at the field with others seems to complete the package for me.

Do you have to start with an instructor? You decide. What's the risk? Are there children around? An unsafe practice that you may not be aware of? I believe you'll appreciate your decision to go to the field. If you continue with flying at the open field at home, great. But I'll bet you'll begin to look forward to the trip to the field. Meeting for breakfast on a Saturday or Sunday morning on the way to the field is often better than the flying.

Just a tidbit of info that I got today.

I'm just getting back into the hobby and have a Big Stik currently in route to my house. I work at Kennedy Space Center and saw a plane flying at the local R/C club (grass) field. I had somewhere to go with friends, but decided to check it out anyway to see the plane and rap with the pilot.

I patiently waited for him to land and probably startled him a little because he was pretty focused and didn't see me watching. Anyway, I told him that I was starting back up and that I learned ten years ago on an Eagle 63 (he happened to be flying a beautiful Eagle 2). Anyway, he had a buddy box with him and said that I was welcome to get a little stick time on his Eagle.

Well, let me tell you! John took his plane up to about 100 feet and told me to take over. I was shocked at how rusty I was. I couldn't keep the plane level, couldn’t see it, and got more nervous about my skills as time when on.

John calmly said, "Hey, you do have some stick time, good job!" He then proceeded to show me what he teaches everyone he's taught so far (three folks from what I remember). He put the plane in a left downwind leg, base, then final, and slowly did a pass over the runway. "You take the next one" he said, as he setup the plane in a left downwind again. I performed much better because I could see the plane now that it was lower, and my control movements were much more steady.

After he landed the plane I talked to John about this website and we exchanged email addresses. He doesn't know me from Adam, but was really kind and has agreed to help me with my Big Stik on its first flight. Heck we may do some more buddy box work with his Eagle before I have the Stik ready.

Thanks for being so cool John. YOU DA MAN!!!!

Having said that I did learn without an instructor, but rather used Co-Pilot to get me over the hump. Let me clarify this one point. I did have another person who could fly (but was no instructor) hand me his box for a few minutes and let me land his plane with a Co-Pilot one time, and by the way, I was scared spitless. I guess I would have to agree with the concensus, that if there is any feasible way to get instruction (at least for the first landing), then that is the smart money. To just go to the field alone for the first experience and put your plane in the air without any instruction at all is almost certain to fail. It IS harder than you think.

There is truth to the simulator bit ... if you want to drop $200. I'm 47 and my boy is 15. we've been flying the simulator, and I have had sailplane experience. We went out with an LT-40 trainer from SIG and had about three good flights on New Year's eve day 2003. After taking off, my first with powered craft, I even turned the TX over to my boy - no experience but simulator. He landed the plane beautifully. HOWEVER, the next day, I got "brain freeze," lack of experience, and buried it in the ground! Should've had more "live" help from experienced pilot!

I think SIMs, even FMS are a great learning tool. But I learned more about trimming a plane, starting one, setting the wind for a takeoff, setting it for a landing, adjusting my needle valves, checking the voltage on my RX, on and on from an instructor. Watching the other guys at the field, and seeing the gear they have, and asking questions is great. Watching my instructor break the landing gear off of his plane just before my first lesson was fun..! You can miss out on a lot of education & fun if you go it alone. - Joe

It depends on how wide open and flat an area you have to work with. Takeoffs and flight are easy but landing approaches are tricky. Setting the plane down gently is easy if you don't have to worry about where the plane actually settles down.

you could try a spad then if you crash it it is no big deal

Hey Tesmith; If you are stationed in Lemoore i asume the club you are referring to is FRMC (Fresno Radio Modlers Club). I know it's a bit of a drive but it's mostly freeway now. When i started flying a few years ago my apartment was at 41 and Friant road, i could get to the field in 10 min., about a year and a half ago i bought a house in west fresno, longer drive but bigger hobby room. Anyway FRMC is a good club and the runway is huge, which is more forgiving when learning to land. There are several nice guys out there that will be more than willing to help you out, so it may be worth the drive. Also if you just plan on making a day out of it ( pack a lunch, bring an ice chest, lots of fuel) you will have a-lot of fun and the drive won't seem so long. Hope to see you out there someday.