I would like to add ailerons to the Neo Fun Trainer, and i intend to learn flying on it. Forall intents and purposes,i am acomplete beginner, but a couple of summers ago, i started flyingthe Hobbico Avistar at a club, butnever gained the ability to fly on my own. I was doing pretty well, but i crashed it while trying to land it on a wiindy day.

Now, due to the loss of the field and a shift in personal preferences, i have decided to learn flying on a smaller plane, most likelyat a large field or open space. I want to put together this plane and then i will ask someone experiencedto assist me with flying. Spare parts for the plane are not a concern at all, as i stocked up on plenty.

I would really appreciate if someone can guide me towards the literature and items required for this task.

Info on the Neofun:

http://www.gravesrc.com/NORVEL_NEOFU.../nvlnfn100.htm

I would like to add that i realize that it will be more difficult to learn with a relatively smaller plane, but given my personal circumstances, this is seems to be the best way forward.

Some searching revealed the following page, part of an extensive build thread, where RCKen explains the process of adding ailerons:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_34..._8/key_/tm.htm

Will the following setup work for me use:

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...LXD904&P=7

The biggest problem you will run into is the bulkhead just aft of the wing saddle. You may not be able to remove enough material to allow the rods to move.

I think you are right, cfircav8r. I will post some photos soon.

G'day Why not just leave it as it was designed? If you put the rudder control on to the aileron channel on your radio, the plane will fly almost the same as if it had ailerons. The only thing it won't be able to do is an axial roll.

My favourite plane is the Sig Kadet Senior. It does not have ailerons and yet I can have hours of fun flying it. I recently built one with ailerons and to do this I had to reduce the dihedral angle and cut into the wing to fit the ailerons (I used "barn door ailerons" the same size as the ARF version which comes with them). The Aileron verson can do more aerobatics (it can do a more or less axial roll) but other than that, I prefer the non aileron version.

I always suggest non-aileron planes to people trying to learn without a lot of help. Powered gliders like the Multiplex Easystar (with a better engine) make excellent trainers for would be glider pilots and also for trainee pilots in general particularly those who have to try to learn alone. Planes with lots of dihedral have stability so that they will fly themselves if you get into trouble ( and you will ) and will return them selves to level flight if you just let go the controls.

If you are going to add ailerons then you need to reduce the dihedral or the ailerons will not be very effective. Flat bottomed wings with large amounts of dihedral are not a good place for ailerons. It is also often necessary to use "differential ailerons" to avoid "adverse yaw" problems with wings like this too. (Differential ailerons means that the ailerons go up more than they go down or visa versa and adverse yaw is caused when the drag caused by an aileron causes a wing to turn opposite to the direction it would normally do.)

Anyway, have fun - I really think you would be better to fly the plane as designed initially and do mods once you have some flying experience.

Mike in Oz

I'd leave it as is. If you wanted an aileron plane, there are plenty on the market in all shapes and sizes. The Neofun is designed to fly without ailerons, so at least give it a try before doing anything to it. It won't handle wind for beans but that's the sacrifice you make. The Avistar is (IMO) the best 4 ch trainer on the market, especially in windy conditions. If that's what you want, then that's the one to go back to.

Mike, for the past hour or so, i had nothing but the desire to modify the plane for ailerons on my mind. I even cut open some of the covering on one half of the wing to see what kind of modifications i will need to make. I was just about to start my search for some brass tubing until it hit the refresh button on the web browser. Your, along with jester s1's, reasoning is excellent. I will go with what you guys advise: leave it as-is.

I had been flying a 4 channel trainer on the simulator for a while, and i think that the desire for a parallel on the plane was driving me to convert it to 4 channel. It never occured to me that i could put the rudder channel on ailerons.  I plan on mounting a PAW 049 diesel on it.  I don't have any experience with diesels, but i will be running it extensively on the ground before putting it in.

jester_s1, i would like to go back to the Avistar, but the lack of a club within a reasonable distance is a problem. Again, guys, thanks for the help.

G'day

The little PAW is a great engine BUT you do need to spend a while learning about it on the ground before you try to fly with it. I have a PAW 1.5 RC diesel in a small trainer that I built for fun. It too has no ailerons and flies well.

The PAW will need running in. It has a cast iron (actually scintered cast iron called mehanite) piston running in a steel liner. When they are new they don't fit all that well and they need about an hour of running in short runs set quite rich initially and gradually leaned out over the hour and the compression gradually increased.

It probably has a ring muffler which unfortunately makes initial starting difficult. I removed the muffler on mine. They don't make much noise anyway.. The trick is "exhaust priming".

Initially I would mount the engine in a test stand. A piece of wood about 3/4 inch thick with a notch cut in it is fine. Initially I don't connect the fuel tank with new diesels. I just exhaust prime and flick. To exhaust prime you turn the engine over anticluckwise with the prop until it comes up on to compression then wet the side of the piston with some fuel. This is enough to get the engine to fire with a firm flick. Gradually increase compression until the engine will fire with a prime. Once it is firing and running for a short period, then connect the tank and prime again and this time it should be ready to start.

Anyway, have fun. And if you need help, feel free to PM me. I have already helped one person to learn to fly by email.

All the best

Mike in OZ

Thank you for the generous offer to help. I will certainly take you up on it when i need assistance. I found a great website on diesel break-in procedure:

http://www3.bc.sympatico.ca/dieselco...ut_diesels.htm

Within the next few weeks, i want to get everything i need and then i will put it together.

I have a four channel Futaba radio, and i would like to know which receiver i can use on this plane. Also, which servos should i go with? Are generic Chinese servos ok or should i use Futaba or Hitec? 

G'day Can't help you with Futaba info but as for servos, I would use Futaba or Hitec. There are some Chinese servos that are OK but some are not very good at all. I almost always use Hitec servos as they have a good range and they have always worked well for me.

If the plane had an electric motor, you could use quite small servos but as it has a diesel engine, the extra vibration from the engine means you need larger more robust servos. Will "standard size" servos fit or do you need a smaller servo? I have a couple of planes with small diesels and they have HS-81 servos in them. They are floaty type planes that are most definitely not aerobatic. For aerobatics, you might need to go to the 100 series or 200 series servos.

Cheers

Mike in Oz.

Mike, I have sent you an email.

Your radio is 72mhz (antenna about 3 feet long) I'm guessing? A Futaba or Hitec receiver will work. Some guys use the cheap Chinese servos and say they haven't had any problems, but when you figure how much a replacement airframe costs saving $20 on servos doesn't make sense. I'll second the vote on Hitecs. They don't cost much and you can trust them. Buy quality batteries too if you haven't already. If your equipment is used, I would assume that the batteries are no good unless you put them on a cycler to check them out. www.hangtimes.com is the vendor I use, and I'm very impressed with the quality you get for the price.

Mike,

You may be able to roll the plane without ailerons:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_14...tm.htm#1476733

You will only need three standard analog servos that center properly and in a consistent manner.
All brand name and some non-brand are good; just check some reviews.
Verify that the receiver (three or more channels) and transmitter are compatible in frequency and shift (negative / positive).

Additional good reading here:

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=9650703

Best luck!

G'day

Yes, I have managed to "roll" my Kadet Seniors (which have no ailerons) but it does need a lot of down elevator at the top of the roll and the roll is less than pretty. Flying the Kadet inverted is also fun. All that dihedral wants to turn the plane back onto its feed and so you have to fight to keep it inverted.

The main trick with any of these maneuvers is height. Lots of it. You need at least twice the height of a loop as to recover from inverted flight, you really need to do half a loop in the direction of DOWN and if the ground is too close .......

I NEED HELP.
I just bought an used Funtana S. Everything but the receiver.
I bought a JR receiver for it. When I was going to install it I realized the plane has 2 servos for elevators. I bought a Y conector and connect them both to the elevator slot. The problem is that after binding one elevator goes up and the other goes down[X(]
I tried the reverse option and guess what? Yes one goes down while the other goes up.
What do I do now?

Yes, it's a 72mhz radio, and i have decided to go with HS-81 servos, as per Mike's advice. Thank you for the help.

lopflyers - it's generally considered rude to ask a question in a thread that is unrelated to the topic of the thread. It's much better to start your own thread so that people can read it if they want to. But since you're new I'll answer you.

You can handle your situation a number of different ways. The best way is to use two different channels and set up a mix on your radio to control the two servos. That lets you reverse the one that needs it and also lets you set the centering and end points to be the same on both, which they often will not be on their own. If you don't have a mix available, you can use a matchbox to do the same thing that the mix would. If you can see that they are well matched already (doubtful but possible) you can buy a reversing Y-Harness, or do what I did to the flaps in my Ultra Stick and reverse the servo. It requires some basic soldering but there are threads here with pictures showing you how.

Alright, thanks. Im sorry about being rude.