Live Wire

If you have your pictures in a file on your pc. Look down below where you post and you will see , Click here to upload images and files. It will take you to your file where you double click your image and just follow the instructions.
You can go to the bottom of the forums page to the test site and practice there. Not hard after you open the upload. There is also information on the forum question thread.
Larry k

markhamregular

Here are the pictures of the aileron servo before I move the rod closer to the surface.

Live Wire

I don't know if this will help. but you will need the servo wheel and set it up like the pic to get differential.

haikt

My Feedback: (11)

what dihedral does on the plane is convert some of the lift (vertical force) to horizontal force (the higher the angel the higher is the vertical force)
this also has the same effect on you ailerons. if you had lets say 45 degree angel in the wing you would cut your aileron effectives by half.
I would suggest you get more up and down movement on your ailerons (1/4 of an inch does not sound much for a trainer). I would try to double that for the first try and try to get even more as you get familiar with your plane. Increase the movement and then have someone at the field try it for you for the first flight to be safe.
Also you did good by building from kit this way when you crash it you will have the confidence to go in and fix it.
You can always glue some balsa plates to the ends of your ailerons to have more surface area and even change the dihedral if you had too. I don't suggest you get into this yet, this can be last resort (changing the design of the airplane).
When I first started flying I had a little sig LT25 trainer and after learning how to fly I removed the dihedral and made the wings shorter and it was lot more fun and responsive, Again I don't suggest you do any major modifications on your plane until you are comfortable flying and landing it.
Good luck and hang on.

TedMo

Several things may cause your problem of nose raising in flight. Speed change, airfoil, Incidence, decalage (difference in elevator/wing angles), engine thrust angle. So you see it may one or more things causing your problem. Hopefully you have someone in the club that is knowledgeable to help.

Jim_Purcha

My Feedback: (8)

Look the amount of movement of the torque rod and compare it to the aileron. Appears to be very little aileron movement for the amount of throw.

Jim

Live Wire

In your second Pic. I would turn the arms down about another 1/4 in. on both side and go fly.

jester_s1

You can get differential with that X servo arm too. Cut two of the arms off so you have a boomerang shape, the point the boomerang away from the ailerons. It would be smart to have a spare arm in case you can't get enough throw with the new setup though.

And yes, move your control arm down some more. If 1/4 inch has little to no effect, 1/2 inch will probably be manageable.

I wouldn't recommend putting the rudder on the right stick either. In low speed flight (like landings) you need to use the rudder on every plane, and getting the muscle memory in your left hand is important. There is no benefit to learning expect rudder type response from your right hand when you plan to fly other planes set up the other way.

Campgems

The expert had good advise.

There is a more complex description, but in a nut shell,most of thedrag on your plane isthe wings. As they are higher than the thrust line of engine, the fuselage tries to swing up on an arc thats center is the wing. This increases the angle of atack and causes more lift and upward it goes. By the way, tail heavy makes a plane really sensitive to elevator. To the point a very experienced pilot may not be able to fly it. If your plane is OKon CG per the instructions, I would leave it as is.

Raising the TE of the wing will lower the AOA. Another solution is to give more down thrust on the engine. The shim under the TEof the wing is a good way to see if changing the AOAwill improve mid range power/level flight issues. My first trainer took four popsicle sticks under the TE before is calmed down. I've got an old Sig Seniorita that someone bashed badly. I put it backt to stock, or as close as I could get without plans. The AOAis way off on it. Ican do a loop with just the throttle. Just 1/8" of shim tamed it down a lot. You'll be suspirsed how some small changes will help. Sounds like you have a good local guy to assist in triming it out. Take advantage of him. Someone that can see what is happening is a lot more likely to find the problems than us guys guessing here. Give him the TX and see what he has to say. Sounds like you are on the right track. have fun.

Don

markhamregular

I tried one last time this morning to fly that plane after increasing the aileron throw tremendously.
They still would not work even at straight and level flight.
I was fighting the plane all the time and someone at the field was able to land it.
The plane was poorly constructed. One wing is much higher than the other. The vertical fin in not straight.
The tendency to climb is still high at only 1/3 of the throttle. I beleive it's because of errors building the wing.
This is not the way to learn to fly.
That plane is going to the storage area.
I am thinking an Avistar. Something that someone else pre-built.
No more kit for me... at least for the moment.

Thanks all for your great advice. They were not good enough to overcome the bad builder that I am.
I will learn to fly first, then learn to build.

RCer22

When I was learning back in the 80s we were flying the old avaistars by Hobico. Great flying plans. Non of the problems associated with the flat bottom wing. Not a lot of dihedral either. When you were ready for the fun stuff so was your plane.
I found this video and I thought it would be fun for you guys to watch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-B1uzdFcV0

I hope you enjoy it.

nute12

My Feedback: (14)

Harry,
Building your first plane before learning to fly is a huge advantage.....even if it does not come out as hoped. by your post it shows you understand what is wrong. Building your plane also teaches you the structures and systems and how they work. Most of the first builds (mine included) are going to have issues. Dont give up on it. You built it once, now you know where the errors are. Fix em. Its not that hard and will give you a great feeling of accomplishment when it flies as expected. There is a pretty steep learning curve right at the beginning. And as you progress there will be lots more to learn. It stays fun tho.
There are also lots of people that really enjoy helping out the new guys, remember, we all had to learn also. and went thru all these initiations ourselves. We see some one going thru the the same and are happy to help.

markhamregular

Thanks Nute

I will not give up. I just want to learn to fly on a trouble-free plane.
I sure love to build and I will do better next time.
I am a boater and boaters do help each other. But on this RC hobby, I was amazed how helpful other modelers can be.
Both on the field and online. It just make us beginers feel great.
I am not alone.

By the way, what do you think of the Avista? I was thinking about the Nextstar but someone told me it's a completely flat bottom like the PT40. Too much of a good thing is sometimes bad. Instead of a total basic trainer, I feel it's better to go to a trainer that can grow with me like the Avistar.

Thanks again,

jester_s1

The Avistar is an outstanding first plane. It's better in the wind than a flat bottom trainer so you get to have more flying experience faster on windy days when a standard trainer would just frustrate you. No, it doesn't have as much of the self-righting characteristics as a standard trainer, but if you can fly a circuit without getting the plane upside down or side slipping it you also don't need them.

That said, I don't know that I would give up on your plane just yet. It's actually ok if the wings aren't straight to the fuselage, as long as they are straight to the tail. Either way, a crooked wing is simple to fix by either shaving wood or shimming. A leaning vertical isn't a big worry on a trainer. And as far as your climbing issues, it is possible to trim the plane for straight and level flight at at least one airspeed. Every problem on your plane is fixable and in less time than it will take to put together an Avistar.

On your wing incidence issue: No one may have told you this yet, but incidence is not measured based on the line of the flat wing bottom. It is measured from the middle of the leading edge curve to the edge of the trailing edge with the ailerons flat to the bottom. If you set your wing incidence to be right using the bottom of the wing as the reference, then you are way too high.

daveopam

My Feedback: (9)

Harry, you can cut the wing in half and take most of the dihedral out of it. If you are interested in doing that, I can walk you through it. You would need to recover the center 8" of the wing. It's not a hard job if you have a few wood working skills.

David

nute12

My Feedback: (14)

Only flew a avistar one time, tell ya what, I was really impressed with its ability. The one i flew had been turned up a little more for a intermediate flyer. You will not go wrong there. It will grow with you for quite awhile.

RCer22

If you should try to cut the wing in half chances are there was a wing joiner used in the build and the wing joiner was epoxied in too. I don't know of a good way of removing it. Someone else might.
You will need to use fiberglass cloth on the center of the wing or it will not be strong enough at the joint meaning you can't just glue it back together without some sort of joiner.
I would set the ailerons and rudder on the same stick (right one) and just deal with it. With a six channel radio there might be a mixing feature. I'm sure you can come up with a flyable plane without changing the dihedral.

daveopam

My Feedback: (9)

By all means if you can fly it with rudder, there is no need to cut the wing up. I own one of these though. It flies terrible ( at least mine does) regardless of the turning ability. After a few days trying to buddy with it, It got put it up. I just hated to try and teach someone when it was a constant struggle to get the plane flying right. I started buddy boxing with a Tiger 2 and never looked back. Tower has trainer for $99 that are much better planes than this one. IMHO

David

jester_s1

Putting the rudder and ailerons together is a good way to drill the plane into the ground on a windy day. Sorry to be so blunt, but that is really bad advice, both for flying this plane and for learning piloting skills for future planes.

Since we can't actually see your plane to inspect it, you really are better off getting someone with experience at your flying field to recommend changes to you. From just your descriptions, it sounds like all you need is some more aileron throw, some straightening, and probably lowering the wing incidence. You can do all of that in a day and be back in the air with a better flying plane.

Live Wire

Simple Drill the joiner and put in a dowl.

AltaTed

Nute12 I see your in Lynden. I'm East of and near Birch Bay,. The Alta Luna sign onGrandview is me. Do you know John Burnett ? I met up with him in Lynden today but the field was to muddy to fly. Drop me a note and lets try to get aquainted. I'm a beginner hopig to start flying soon. I'm putting lots of time on the simulater. I am already hooked on all this as I leand more from all the great people on the forum.


AltaTed

MinnSpin

My Feedback: (40)

Perhaps this has been mentioned.....
A couple of things to consider. It has been my experience (30 years) that independent aileron servos are the best way to go. Large wings - whether dyhedral, semi, or fully symetrical put stresses on hinged joints that aren't noticed until airborn. Try tapinga AABatteryto the aileron, it willapply force against the servo/control arm as it replicates wind force the aileron sees when airborn.

If your receiver has room for another servo lead, I would suggest using the 6th channel configuration. Another advantage to this is dedicated servo travel and adjustment, both of which can be severly limited when only one servo is in use.

Hope you find a working solution.

nute12

My Feedback: (14)

I am John Ted. didnt think about the screen name thing when we were out there.

markhamregular

 One day, just for the fun of it, I will make this plane fly right.
At this time, I am fed up with it. I have tried everything that was suggested.
I am buying another plane so I can learn to fly without struggling.
Once I am polished, I will make this plane fly. I spent more than 60 hours building it, so I am not thowing it out in the garbage.
But today I removed the engine and radio to use for the Avistar I am ordering.

The PT40 is on detention.

Thanks again all of you.

Desertlakesflying

My Feedback: (28)

Looks like he has hardly any throw in his servo. Maybe some end points adjusted too.