Hi Guys,

To start, thankyou for taking the time to read and to help me as I am completely lost...
I am looking at getting into building and flying park flyers. I am definately more interested in the Guillow or Dave Cowells Models as I like the idea of having to build it myself. However, considering that this will be quite an lengthy process for my first time I was wondering if there were any veterans out there that could offer advise (components, best body shapes, sizes, tricks of the trade). I really don't like the idea of spending months building something and then finding that the weight distribution is wrong or my prop isn't strong enough. I think that My biggest issue at the moment is finding the right Body shape. I need one big enough to fit the components required and with the right wing configuration for simplicity.
By the way, to clarify I'm looking for a balsawood parkflyer to convert to electric RC for controlled flight.

So far I've been looking at the:
Guillow Thomas M. Scout
Guillow Spitfire
DCPFokker D VII
DCPAW001

Thankyou again for your help

G'day,

You will probably find Paul's site will answer most questions you have.

http://www.airfieldmodels.com/index.html

Cheers,

Colin

Thankyou Colin,

That is an excellent reference, looks like I've got a lot of reading to do.

Thanks again,

Christopher

Heres a nice place to look  that may give you some ideas.  It's one of many out there. Think Trainer to start. Also a beginners should start with a simulator to do this right but many learned long before these were available.


http://www.thewingsmaker.com/shopping.php


Good luck and have fun.

Once again thanks for the tip,

I'm finding that "good luck" looks like an appropriate term!!! Here I thought fitting the components inside the fuselage was going to be my main issue, now I need to worry about the force on the wings, the balance and washin/washout...... I'm hoping I'm not biting off more than I can chew!!
The fella I was discussing this with at my local hobby shop just stared at me and shook his head..... Though he doesn't believe electric guillow conversions are possible.

The other issue I am having is with cost. Is there a more cost effective receiver that could fit into a guillow?? I think that now I'm leaning toward the P-40. It seems tricky but there are quite a few success stories out there. Might be a bit more fun that a bi-plane too

Thanks

Christopher</p>

oh and AltaTed, while I appreciate the advise about starting with a trainer I'm more of a jump in the deep end kinda person. It is also a question of money, I am trying to make one large project relatively cheap and last a while

Hi,
And welcome! Good on you for wanting to build. But seriously, first airplanes get wolopped quite a bit. The little and fragile Guillow's types just are not tough enough.
You could go with an inexpensive electic foamy type to start with. Radio and other ground gear (chargers and the like) will be no different. But a SIMPLE foam trainer will let you bash around without costing you days of bench time.
Spending a few weeks building and going out to make a 20 second flight that ends in a sack of tooth pics is not fun.
We would really like to see you learn to fly!

Hahaha it's definately not the first time I've heard that!!
I guess I'll just have to see if I can swallow my pride and learn to fly something that is kind of unattractive. Personally I find more pleasure in the building than in the flying, so it will never be wasted effort, but definately disheartening!!!

Since you're on a budget and want to build immediately, you might consider starting with free flight planes. A couple of gliders will only cost you wood and will teach you about flight trimming and balance, then rubber power will extend those lessons. Then when you start RC you'll at least know how to put a plane together properly and diagnose the common problems you'll encounter.

I say build a kit! It's rewarding to see your hard work take flight - almost nothing can express the feeling. I've nothing against foam trainers, but many (most) here learned on kits they built. A good start would be a Sig Kadet Senior with a 2-stroke .46. http://www.sigmfg.com/cgi-bin/dpsmar...FV5.html?E+Sig

Or something similar. A .40-size should be a minimum. The smaller models like the Guillows are very challenging on even a light-wind day. I know they look fun, I have a Guillows Cub I'm putting together. It's not designed for RC (no spar![X(]), so you have to slightly mod it. This adds weight, which means the lightest radio components and covering.

Another suitable small kit is the Herr Cub with a Norvel .074. But do the trainer first!

EddieC I'm glad you understand!
I'll find a middleground between building and flying so as not to over challenge myself, but I definately want to see my creation rise above gravity, thats really the pull for me when it comes to flying in the first place!

Has anyone seen the dcp (Dave Cowell)planes? Apparently they're like the Guillow but larger andmade for flying... Might be a bit better.
Also, I havent seen the SIG website before, I've taken a liking to the SIGHOGBIPEKIT. I couldn't find the one's you mentioned, but are they proper kits? Or is it kind of "Attach the wings to the body and your ready to go..." (I don't really like the sound of that)
If it's a full kit then do you suppose I could take it apart later, use the same motor, receiver, etc and build it a new body?

The hog bipe is a full kit, just finnished one up. With sigs detailed instructions even a first builder should manage it no problem. It is a large plane though, def not a park flyer and not a first model for flying.

You need to learn to fly whilst you build your first model, or all your hard work will prob be destroyed in a few seconds. Flying looks easy but with a responsive model it is not.

X2!!

The F6F hellcat would be a good one to convert.  I just finished one over the weekend I was given as a gift.

There is plenty of room to house a 5 in 1 unit like out of a micro T28...but the weight may be too much.  It may be better suited for the electronics out of one of the new "Beast" micro bipes.

Only thing is after you get done buying all of the electronics, batteries, covering...you are gonna have about 150 bucks in something that may or may not fly.

The biggest thing will be modifying the ribs in the wing to accept some sort of spar to keep the wing from folding in on itself.  Also, would need to modify the horizontal stab to have an elevator.  I would think rudder would be optional...if you wanted one you would have to mod the vertical stab too.

Id really like to do this.  Just cant see spending the money on the electronics to tinker.  Id rather put that kind of coin into something that I KNOW will fly.

Just my .o2's</p>

The beaten path is very well worn on learning RC flight. Sure, a few mavericks go their own way and do ok, but most wind up disappointed. The suggestion for the Kadet is good if you have a big place to fly it. If you don't, the Hobby Zone Super Cub is a decent trainer that will let you learn flight skills before putting your first build in the air. In your first flight, you'll have to learn how to take off, handle wind, trim while flying, stall detection and recovery, basic orientation, diagnosing setup problems, and recovery from awkward attitudes, all in the span of about 20 seconds on a good day. Then you'll have to figure out landings, and you only get one shot at it most of the time. Do you really want to go through that learning process on a piece of art that you have spent 40-50 hours on?

On your other question, you can take the electronics and power system out of any plane and transfer it to a new one. We do it all the time with both kit built planes and ARF's. It's very common for a new flyer to buy a trainer and outfit it with equipment that will be good for the next plane he plans to use, and then after he gets confident that he can take the trainer out for a few flights without having to fix it when he gets home to take it all out and outfit the second plane.

Just looked them up, nice kits: http://dpcmodels.homestead.com/index.html

I'd stay away from anything below 24" wingspan for a kit. Under that size, weight becomes very critical and you balance structural integrity against all-up flying weight. The micro radio components become costly as well.

For all-out WWI or vintage, try these: http://www.proctor-enterprises.com/ Museum-quality kits, but large and spendy.

Hi Christopher,

Second and third the comments regards learning to fly, clubs, instructors etc. No reason not to build something other than a trainer whilst learning to fly.

Not sure where in Oz you are located? Here is a link to the MAAA which is the National body with further links to the State Associations which will ultimately lead you to your nearest club with like minded people.
http://www.maaa.asn.au/maaa/states.html

Cheers,

Colin

Well it seems pretty unanimous!!
I think what I'll do to get started is try to find an SIG kit (trainer of course) but I'll have a chat about the components to make sure I can fit them into a plane I'd like in the future. I've got asupplier calling me back today as SIG stockists are hard to find around here!!
To answer your question Colin I'm in SA (Adelaide) and SIGsuppliers seem pretty rare around here!
I'm going to make some calls today to some interstate suppliers, if anyone knows of any please let me know as I have called every one off the SIG website.

Thankyou for the link to the clubs, I've had a look at the club in SA's website so now I'm looking forward togoing to some of their events.

The Proctor Kits are amazing but as you said, pricey!!! $30 worth of toothpicks is one thing but $250? I'd be too afraid to fly it even with experience!!

Well I guess I'm still young enough to think I can't make a mistake!!!
Thanks to all for saving my wallet!! Hopefully soon I'll be ready tostart on a properkit plane and I will make sure to post updates!!

Funny note: while searching for SIG suppliers I had quite a long (confused) discussion with a gentleman who was trying to find out exactly what I wanted. eventually he asked me for the wingspan of the plane, and when I replied 56-65in he cracked up laughing. Turns out they supply engines and props for full size bipe's lol



Remember, If you're going through Hell...... Keep going!

Hi Christopher,

I've found Col Taylor and Monaro Models very helpfull with most kits. If they don't have it in stock they will source it for you.

http://www.coltaylormodels.com/shop/index.jsp

http://www.monaromodels.com.au

With such a small population it is often necessary to order from afar to source what you want here in Oz. More power to you in wishing to build a kit you will learn far more than assembling an ARF. Please learn to fly first, before putting your newly built pride and joy into the air!!!!!! A SIG Pig (hog) is probably a second or third model after you are proficient with a trainer or similar beginners model. Don't let that stop you from building what you choose whilst learning to fly.

Cheers,

Colin