1st tail dragger....(sigh)
04-21-2011 | 07:45 AM
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From: Covington, KY
1st tail dragger....(sigh)
Been flying about 8 months. Started with a alpha 40.....after I got signed off bought a big stick 40 from great planes...flew it rest of summer and fall......This spring bought a saratogo 40. Guys from club said ( little right rudder, little eleverator, slow on throttle and you will be fine. All I can say is good thing I was the only one at the field this morning. Everyone on the flight line would of been very mad. I was all over the place trying to take off.....Left,..right...left again....then up....Ineed help
04-21-2011 | 07:50 AM
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RE: 1st tail dragger....(sigh)
It's a little tricky all right. And some planes are trickier than others.
Try turning down your rudder throws and make a few practice runs. Don't take off, just do some taxi runs at a speed just fast enough to get the tail off the ground.
Also, be sure that you have the main wheels toed in a little
Try turning down your rudder throws and make a few practice runs. Don't take off, just do some taxi runs at a speed just fast enough to get the tail off the ground.
Also, be sure that you have the main wheels toed in a little
04-21-2011 | 07:50 AM
#4
RE: 1st tail dragger....(sigh)
The throws may be a bit more than what you're used to. Maybe too much right rudder and elevator and then you overcompensate correcting. Just drive it up and down the runway without ever intending to take off. Practice until you can keep it straight. Watch your throttle so you don't accidently lift off and bounce it or run out of runway.
04-21-2011 | 07:55 AM
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RE: 1st tail dragger....(sigh)
Here's an article I wrote a while back on Trikes vs Taildraggers. You may find it helpful:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/a...article_id=866
http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/a...article_id=866
04-21-2011 | 07:55 AM
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From: mills river,
NC
RE: 1st tail dragger....(sigh)
ORIGINAL: carp_886
Been flying about 8 months. Started with a alpha 40.....after I got signed off bought a big stick 40 from great planes...flew it rest of summer and fall......This spring bought a saratogo 40. Guys from club said ( little right rudder, little eleverator, slow on throttle and you will be fine. All I can say is good thing I was the only one at the field this morning. Everyone on the flight line would of been very mad. I was all over the place trying to take off.....Left,..right...left again....then up....Ineed help
Been flying about 8 months. Started with a alpha 40.....after I got signed off bought a big stick 40 from great planes...flew it rest of summer and fall......This spring bought a saratogo 40. Guys from club said ( little right rudder, little eleverator, slow on throttle and you will be fine. All I can say is good thing I was the only one at the field this morning. Everyone on the flight line would of been very mad. I was all over the place trying to take off.....Left,..right...left again....then up....Ineed help
As someone who was where you now are last year (1st year of flying and 1st tail dragger...and a Cub no less) my instructors gave me this practice drill . If no one is using the runway or flying, just practing taxiing from one end of the runway to the other. Each time add a little more throttle, but not enough to take off. After you're about 1/2 way down the runway, just chop the throttle back and slow down. You'll find out the point/speed where you'll need to start applying more rudder to keep it straight down the center of the runway.
At some point you'll be comfortable with the takeoff rollout and just a smidge more throttle and you're airborne!!! In my case the Cub lifted off the ground and I was flying so Ijust added some more throttle and off I went!
Good luck!
Mark
04-21-2011 | 07:59 AM
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From: Poolesville, MD
RE: 1st tail dragger....(sigh)
You'll frequently see guys at our club rolling their tail draggers down a slight hill on the pavement to see how it tracks.
Everyone adjusts the plane so there is a slight rightward tendancy as it rolls... say about 1 foot for every 12 or so travelled.
This helps compensate a bit for yaw.
If the plane you are trying to fly has a hard yaw at run up you may have to mix a bit of rudder to the throttle to help... normally LESS than 8% rudder to throttle.
Also turn DOWN your expo rates if you have them high on the rudder.
If you have Expo turned up, there is a tendancy to overcorrect as the plane yaws at runup.... normally no more than 15% expo is needed on the rudder.
Finally make sure that both of your front tires toe in a bit. Both should toe-in about 2 degrees ot help reduce yaw during takeoff.
Everyone adjusts the plane so there is a slight rightward tendancy as it rolls... say about 1 foot for every 12 or so travelled.
This helps compensate a bit for yaw.
If the plane you are trying to fly has a hard yaw at run up you may have to mix a bit of rudder to the throttle to help... normally LESS than 8% rudder to throttle.
Also turn DOWN your expo rates if you have them high on the rudder.
If you have Expo turned up, there is a tendancy to overcorrect as the plane yaws at runup.... normally no more than 15% expo is needed on the rudder.
Finally make sure that both of your front tires toe in a bit. Both should toe-in about 2 degrees ot help reduce yaw during takeoff.
04-21-2011 | 08:03 AM
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From: Covington, KY
RE: 1st tail dragger....(sigh)
You guys have some great advice....I saved the web sight and printed off some replys to take with me to the field next time......Thanks everyone for replying so fast
04-21-2011 | 09:06 AM
#9
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RE: 1st tail dragger....(sigh)
After you take off a few times you won't even notice the pull to the left, kicking in a little rudder will just be normal for you. When I first started flying I learned on a TD, trikes were a big mystery for me. I had one small Fokker D-VII that was a serious ground looper and my hitec radio had a take off switch so I tried that, I just programed in a couple degrees of right rudder for take offs, it worked but I think I used the switch only one day. Once I figured out it only took a little rudder to correct the pull problem take offs were easy. Just take off a few times and you will get it. Your only moving the rudder about 10 degrees so it isn't much. I never use expo on my rudder, I want 100% control and I want it to move as soon as I touch the stick. If I add expo I tend to get behind the plane and over correct.
Don't start folling with things, just fly it and get the feeling for the control. I bet after about three take offs you will have it figured out.
Don't start folling with things, just fly it and get the feeling for the control. I bet after about three take offs you will have it figured out.
04-21-2011 | 09:10 AM
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From: Grant,
FL
RE: 1st tail dragger....(sigh)
ORIGINAL: opjose
You'll frequently see guys at our club rolling their tail draggers down a slight hill on the pavement to see how it tracks.
You'll frequently see guys at our club rolling their tail draggers down a slight hill on the pavement to see how it tracks.
Seriously: Practicing on the ground is great advice. I take off from a paved runway and any torque yaw effect that you get on engine rev up is magnified due to the lower resistance. A couple of points (some already made)
- Reduce expo/DR throw on the rudder to reduce over steer
- Advance throttle gradually
- Toe in on the wheel alignment
- a little up elevator during the initial few feet of acceleration gives the tail more friction with the ground and helps with yaw
04-21-2011 | 10:19 AM
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From: Poolesville, MD
RE: 1st tail dragger....(sigh)
For people who are having problems with yaw at run-up, I let the rudder have a decent amount of travel... somewhere between low and high rates... But not a full high rate... we want the rudder to be effective, but not overly so.
But I dial DOWN expo so it is NOT as "soft" or less responsive around center.
As counter-intuitive as that may seem, you have to remember that having a high expo rates ( or making things softer at center ) causes most of the rudder movement to occur at stick extremes...
So what happens with "normal" ( higher ) expo rate is that a novice will see a plane yaw, being used to light controls, they will move the stick a bit... nothing seems to happen to the yaw due to higher expo ( at soft center settings ) so they compensate by moving the stick a lot in a panic...
That causes a LOT of deflection moving the stick in the opposite direction very quickly... now they compensate AGAIN and move the stick the other way hard... and you get those typical YAW oscillations newbies often execute on their first tail draggers.
By making the rudder MORE responsive than what you have under normal Expo settings ( say around 15% instead of 30%+ people will dial in ), they tend to move the rudder less to get the corrective results they expect, thus avoiding the repeated overcorrection's....
This may seem strange but it works...
But I dial DOWN expo so it is NOT as "soft" or less responsive around center.
As counter-intuitive as that may seem, you have to remember that having a high expo rates ( or making things softer at center ) causes most of the rudder movement to occur at stick extremes...
So what happens with "normal" ( higher ) expo rate is that a novice will see a plane yaw, being used to light controls, they will move the stick a bit... nothing seems to happen to the yaw due to higher expo ( at soft center settings ) so they compensate by moving the stick a lot in a panic...
That causes a LOT of deflection moving the stick in the opposite direction very quickly... now they compensate AGAIN and move the stick the other way hard... and you get those typical YAW oscillations newbies often execute on their first tail draggers.
By making the rudder MORE responsive than what you have under normal Expo settings ( say around 15% instead of 30%+ people will dial in ), they tend to move the rudder less to get the corrective results they expect, thus avoiding the repeated overcorrection's....
This may seem strange but it works...
04-21-2011 | 05:54 PM
#14
My Feedback: (-1)
RE: 1st tail dragger....(sigh)
ORIGINAL: opjose
For people who are having problems with yaw at run-up, I let the rudder have a decent amount of travel... somewhere between low and high rates... But not a full high rate... we want the rudder to be effective, but not overly so.
But I dial DOWN expo so it is NOT as ''soft'' or less responsive around center.
As counter-intuitive as that may seem, you have to remember that having a high expo rates ( or making things softer at center ) causes most of the rudder movement to occur at stick extremes...
So what happens with ''normal'' ( higher ) expo rate is that a novice will see a plane yaw, being used to light controls, they will move the stick a bit... nothing seems to happen to the yaw due to higher expo ( at soft center settings ) so they compensate by moving the stick a lot in a panic...
That causes a LOT of deflection moving the stick in the opposite direction very quickly... now they compensate AGAIN and move the stick the other way hard... and you get those typical YAW oscillations newbies often execute on their first tail draggers.
By making the rudder MORE responsive than what you have under normal Expo settings ( say around 15% instead of 30%+ people will dial in ), they tend to move the rudder less to get the corrective results they expect, thus avoiding the repeated overcorrection's....
This may seem strange but it works...
For people who are having problems with yaw at run-up, I let the rudder have a decent amount of travel... somewhere between low and high rates... But not a full high rate... we want the rudder to be effective, but not overly so.
But I dial DOWN expo so it is NOT as ''soft'' or less responsive around center.
As counter-intuitive as that may seem, you have to remember that having a high expo rates ( or making things softer at center ) causes most of the rudder movement to occur at stick extremes...
So what happens with ''normal'' ( higher ) expo rate is that a novice will see a plane yaw, being used to light controls, they will move the stick a bit... nothing seems to happen to the yaw due to higher expo ( at soft center settings ) so they compensate by moving the stick a lot in a panic...
That causes a LOT of deflection moving the stick in the opposite direction very quickly... now they compensate AGAIN and move the stick the other way hard... and you get those typical YAW oscillations newbies often execute on their first tail draggers.
By making the rudder MORE responsive than what you have under normal Expo settings ( say around 15% instead of 30%+ people will dial in ), they tend to move the rudder less to get the corrective results they expect, thus avoiding the repeated overcorrection's....
This may seem strange but it works...
04-21-2011 | 08:54 PM
#15
RE: 1st tail dragger....(sigh)
Something else that is often overlooked is to make sure your main gear wheels are straight. A nose wheel plane will let you get away with a crooked main gear by just fixing it with the nose steering, but tail draggers won't. I use an incidence meter on the wheels to make sure they are toed in the same amount and then I set the tailwheel to track correctly. If your mains are off and you correct it with the tailwheel, you'll notice that the plane pulls when the tail starts to come up even though it's been tracking straight. A properly set up gear will pull a little left right at start up, then go straight with no input from your until the wheels lift (assuming you're flying off a good runway that doesn't induce some yaw itself).
04-22-2011 | 07:14 AM
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From: Garland, TX
RE: 1st tail dragger....(sigh)
ORIGINAL: carp_886
Been flying about 8 months. Started with a alpha 40.....after I got signed off bought a big stick 40 from great planes...flew it rest of summer and fall......This spring bought a saratogo 40. Guys from club said ( little right rudder, little eleverator, slow on throttle and you will be fine. All I can say is good thing I was the only one at the field this morning. Everyone on the flight line would of been very mad. I was all over the place trying to take off.....Left,..right...left again....then up....I need help
Been flying about 8 months. Started with a alpha 40.....after I got signed off bought a big stick 40 from great planes...flew it rest of summer and fall......This spring bought a saratogo 40. Guys from club said ( little right rudder, little eleverator, slow on throttle and you will be fine. All I can say is good thing I was the only one at the field this morning. Everyone on the flight line would of been very mad. I was all over the place trying to take off.....Left,..right...left again....then up....I need help
