All,

I've flown r/c gliders for years. Most of my time has been with slope gliders and most recently these gliders have carried a fairly high wing loading. I've never had much of an issue lading them, maybe because landing is more flying into the ground than actually "landing" in a traditional sense? At any rate, I've recently begun flying electrics and have had about a dozen flights on a Parkzone T-28. I am having no trouble in the air, take offs, and lining up for landings. I am however having a problem with touching down. I seem to have an issue with bouncing my landings and not having the plane settle in and stay in contact with the runway. I am thinking that maybe I am not controlling rate of descent with the throttle properly, but I don't know for sure. I think I am slowing the plane down enough...I see other T-28s come in at about the same speed and have no "bounce" issues. The only thing I can think of is that maybe the plane is descending too fast? When I say bounce, I mean a fairly significant bounce that seems to almost gain energy as it goes. The bounce will cause the plane to start to "porpoise" by the second or third bounce. The runway is dirt with a few weeds sticking up here and there.

Basically I do the following.

On the downwind I reduce the throttle to about half and let the plane start to slow down.

I make one big sweeping turn to final letting the plane lose a little altitude in the turn.

Once on final I reduce the throttle further to let the nose drop and start to descend towards the runway. At this point I still maintain a little throttle, but it's not very much.

Once over the end of the runway I let the plane descend to about eye level I guess, then start to flare. Throttle setting at this point is probably just enough to keep it turning.

When I am just off the runway (a foot or less) I completely cut the throttle and let it touch down.

This is where the bounce comes in. Can you offer any advice? What am I doing wrong?

Thanks in advance

Flare a bit, with that plane, a foot or so off the ground start brining the nose up so the mains touch first.

You have to learn to bleed off airspeed and then come in at a point where the flare actually stops the plane from flying. If you come in to hot, well, you will do one or two things.. you will most likely bounce because you came in and hit to hard, or you will balloon up and stall.

The trick is to get it to all happen at the same time, which takes some practice.

Do lots of approach practices, coming in lower and lower each time until you have the airspeed down enough so that when you tap the elevator to flare, adding just a small amount of up (pulling back on the elevator stick.. sorry.. I wanted to clarify that) the nose comes up but the plane does not climb.

You can practice this up high so that if you stall, you can recover. Then, get lower and lower until the flare maneuver actually settles the plane gently down on the ground.

Good luck with that.

CGr.

Keep a little throttle on on touch down. Fly it down ,it's NOT a glider. Watch the wheels on landing NOT the plane. If you keep a little throttle on you will have enough power to let the plane settle instead of bounce. ENJOY !!! RED

Wow, that was quick! Thanks for the tips. I see I ave a few things to work on.

1) A little more flare to get the mains to touch down first.

2) More practice to find the right landing speed.

3) Fly it in with a little power and watch the wheels...I know I'm watching the fuse and not the wheels now.

I'll check back in and let you all know how I'm doing.

Thanks![8D]

I agree completely. Fly a normal approach, and flare to make the plane fly two inches above the runway. Don't let it touch down. Keep it two inches off the ground for as long as you can. By gradually feeding in more and more elevator to keep the wheels two inches off the ground, you will bleed off airspeed until there is no more lift. The plane will not bounce.

Yeah, you want to practice this at an altitude we normally call "three mistakes high"...

You can launch, then do some orbits to get calmed down, then come around for a landing approach. When it comes around, point it RIGHT AT YOU and decrease the throttle. Watch it bleed off both altitude and airspeed. When about 20 feet up, add power and go around.

Do this several times, then on the next one, come in lower. Do the same thing, but at a lower altitude.... then add throttle and go around.

At some point, probably after you have had about 15 to 20 approaches (yeah.. do nothing but approaches), you should be at an altitude when you don't add power, just get lined up with the centerline, and then watch it glide down... and when you are just a bit off the ground... cut throttle, flair, and land it.

The "point it right at you" stuff gets it closer to the centerline. You will do what's natural and not let it hit you, but you will adjust the position so it's relatively close to you and on the runway centerline and ready for a good landing.

Believe me when I say this that I do this over and over again, even after I've gone way beyond "mastering" the landing techinque because you never... NEVER master landings to the point where you are truly beyond training. Mainly because this is the single most important part of your flying RC.. hell, the single most important part of ANY flying, RC or Full Scale.. landing the aircraft safely and in one piece.

CGr.

Another thing that may help is, while practicing approaches, learn to trim for a comfortable airspeed so when you are on final you can just increase or decrease throttle to adjust your approach angle instead of using your elevator. This will allow you to concentrate on the flare and not your airspeed or descent rate. When you reach the point that you need to start the flare you will find it easier to make it nice and smooth.

Sandal brought up a good point. Hold the flare at about 2" off the ground. The very last part of landing sounds a little counterintuitive, but once you're in the flare, do not allow the plane to touch down until you just can't hold it in the air any longer. Gradually increase up elevator to stay 2" off the ground. Your goal is to stall onto the ground. If you do this, the plane will not have enough energy to bounce

One more suggestion: A "big sweeping turn" to final is not the best way to line up. In a turn, since the plane's angle to you is constantly changing, it's hard to judge speed. Square off your approach: fly your base leg perpendicular to the runway and then turn so final is a straight line right down the middle. It really is easier once you practice it. Also, you don't want to be nose-down on final. Keep the fuselage level or a little nose-high and let the plane settle in.

On approach just keep repeating to yourself - Wings Level, Nose Up.

If your falling short, bump the throttle up a little, then let it off.

The plane will settle onto the runway on the mains. Don't let off the elevator until the plane comes to a stop.

Brad

http://masportaviator.com/2004/01/17...ng-techniques/

For a good landing do not let your plane touch down! A good landing is made by trying to prevent it from touching down with a long deliberate flair. That is you start pulling the stick back and get the nose up, you keep pulling the stick back with the plane just over the runway. When you can no longer keep the plane off it will settle in for a smooth landing without bouncing. When this is learned you can then modifiy this forshort runway, wheel landings on a taildragger, etc. but first you must learn the basic flair.

BTW don't try this with a sailplane unless you have plenty of runway! It may result in floating all the way intot the trees, fence, or whatever.

This is very good information. Thank you all for your input. I think my biggest problem may be trying to "land" the airplane at that last second and not flaring properly. I will definitely take what I've learned here and practice.

What are your thoughts on simulators to practice? Are the flight dynamics close enough to actual flying conditions to make simulator time worth the effort?

A good simulator will help you. Some of the cheap/free simulators will not. Realflight, Aerofly, Reflex XTR are examples of simulators that simulate landings reasonably well. FMS will unfortunately not help you very much when it comes to landings, because the plane flies like it's on rails. (On the other hand it is great for learning orientation etc.)

Every plane is different. Changes in weight, CG, elevator throw etc. will make planes behave differently on approach and landing. Having practiced a lot on the simulator will be of great benefit, but you will still have to "learn" each plane to make good landings. When I go to the field, I usually fly landing circuits for a while, to "warm up". A little practice every flying session goes a long way.

The most important thing is that you have fun and make progress. Other people have different ways.

Flying control line and landing dead stick (so to speak), I have have had a couple airplanes where my best technique was to close my eyes when the airplane got down to about a foot above the ground.[8D]

Flaring when you are head high is too high. I see that a lot at the field with the new guys. Keep the nose slightly down like the previous posters said. The T28 will slow down and float. Descend and round out about a foot high to level flight then start the flare. If you want to show off, drag it flared like that about 3in high for a distance with the throttle( a headwind helps), then let off the elevator and cut the throttle to a main wheels landing or leave the elevator in and drag it on the mains. You are still learning about the planes responses, but having more fun doing it.

I got a couple of flights in over the weekend and put my new found knowledge to practice with good results. I am not getting the bounce that I was getting nearly as often, though I do on occasion. I am finding that I am landing long on the runway...the plane will float for quite a while just off the runway. Need to adjust my approach a little, but progress seems to be in a forward direction![8D]

The first thing to master is slow flying. Most early pilots rip around the circuit at cruising speed or higher, but when you're in the circuit to land it's already part of the approach and your speed should be appropriate.I recommend swanning around, up high, at low throttle settings, just to get a feel for how the model behaves. You may find that roll control at low speeds requires a degree of rudder input as well as aileron, particularly if you have full-span strip ailerons.I recommend using the elevator trims to keep a neutral stick whenever you want precise control.
Once you're happy with flying at approach speed, but straight and level, practice entering the descent stage of the circuit by employing throttle alone to control the rate of descent. Avoid the temptation to allow the nose to drop because the speed will build. If your model is trimmed to fly hands off before you close the throttle (a bit) then it will continue at the same speed but with a descending path. Particularly with 4-strokes, keeping good speed control using pitch allows you to keep the throttle well above idle. This will keep the plug hot and give better response for the overshoot or go-round.
When flying circuits, don't allow the speed to build after the climb-out. Bring the throttle back straight away, so that you don't spend all the time in the circuit just getting the speed under control. Remember that your upwind leg should be at least as long as the final leg;many pilots turn straight away after they are level, so that there is not enough distance in the downwind leg.
Don't fly the down-wind leg too close in. This will allow a decent base-leg with the same angle of descent as final. Keep the model level unti you have turned onto base-leg. Once the heading is correct, bring the throttle back a little to begin descending. Use the throttle to control the angle of descent. If you are going too high, don't put the nose down, reduce throttle (and vice-versa).if you think the model is too slow, allow the nose to fall, re-trim the elevator and compensate for the higher descent speed with throttle. Flying a square circuit allows you to judge the nose angle and speed much more accurately than in a descending turn towards you. A traditional approach speed is 1.6 x the stalling speed, so for most models this isroughly a fast running speed. A head wind will reduce the speed over the ground so that it can look very slow indeed.
The landing phase has three stages:
Final approach.:- You are attempting to keep a constant angle of descent at constant speed. Once you can nail this, all you need to worry about is lining the model up with the runway. You might need to make the final turn a longer distance away than you are used to.
Round-out: As you cross the end of the runway, you should be at a speed and with enough throttle to be able to bring the nose up and arrest the rate of descent. You're aiming to bring the model into level flight with the wheels maybe a foot off the ground. The pitch change may be very slight.
Flare: This is the bit where you transition from being airborne to being on the ground. Having nailed all the other parts of the circuit, when flying straight and level just a foot up, you smoothly but quickly close the throttle fully whilst simultaneously attempting to keep the model level. Once you have reached the landing attitude, you keep on controlling the throttle to the closed position but you keep the pitch steady. The model should settle onto the ground firmly but without skipping or bouncing.
The transition from round-out to flare can be very quick, maybe only a second or so, butthey aredistinct phases of the landing.

A good circuit takes just as much practice and the same amount of skill as good aerobatics.

Power On. Round again.

Your plane carries too much kinetic or speed energy.

Practice slow, very slow flight, high, very high first.
You will learn more than one critical thing about that plane.

High AOA is your friend, as long as you keep it below the critical value (around 10 degrees) at which the lift will disappear drastically (wing stall).

Important principles:

Lift = Weight of the plane (for level flight).
Lift < Weight of the plane (during descending approach).
Lift directly depends on AOA.
Lift quadratically depends on speed (This is what was happening to your plane just before touch down: dropping from certain height just to bounce back).

The mentioned flare is just the gradual manner to transforming lift mainly from speed into lift mainly from AOA.