<span style="font-family: verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgb(248, 248, 248); ">Hi,</span><br style="font-family: verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgb(248, 248, 248); " /><span style="font-family: verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgb(248, 248, 248); ">I would like to know which one of these are the best in wind</span><br style="font-family: verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgb(248, 248, 248); " /><br style="font-family: verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgb(248, 248, 248); " />http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...stem_PNF_.html<span style="font-family: verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgb(248, 248, 248); ">hobbyking j3 green</span><br style="font-family: verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgb(248, 248, 248); " /><br style="font-family: verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgb(248, 248, 248); " />http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...ervos_EPO.html<span style="font-family: verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgb(248, 248, 248); ">hobbyking Piper PA-18 SuperCub</span><br style="font-family: verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgb(248, 248, 248); " /><br style="font-family: verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgb(248, 248, 248); " />http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/hobbies/2794058<span style="font-family: verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgb(248, 248, 248); ">p47 thunderbolt</span><br style="font-family: verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgb(248, 248, 248); " /><br style="font-family: verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgb(248, 248, 248); " />http://www.donedeal.ie/for-sale/hobbies/2879179<span style="font-family: verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgb(248, 248, 248); ">skyrtek cessna 182</span><br style="font-family: verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgb(248, 248, 248); " /><br style="font-family: verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgb(248, 248, 248); " /><span style="font-family: verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgb(248, 248, 248); ">also i am a beginner and i have no interest in gliders</span>

Well a P47 would be the best in wind out of that list, but it's not a beginner's plane. Have a look at the stick designs for an easy flying plane that handles wind very well. The "mine ultra stick" that e-flite makes would fit the bill nicely, but chances are you'd need someone training you to learn to fly it.

Any war plane.

I agree with Jester, everytime the wind is howling at my field the stiks are always in the air. This is why I chose a stik as my second plane for my hanger.

Better in steady state winds or gusts? Please explain how you determine which one is better in either. Thank you.

Kurt

Kurt not sure if you were asking me that last question or not, but I will in my two cents in case.

Being in chicago it gets pretty windy and there is this old flyer at my club who is there almost everyday. I trust his advice and he flies just about everything. One day we show up to the field and the wind was gusting. My instructor didn't want to take up my Sig LT40 because of it and others were at the field waiting for the wind to die down so they could fly also. Now this flier takes his stik and flys and even with the wind steady and in gusts was just cruising around enjoying his flying time with the sky to himself.

I asked about his stik and he tells me that its his windy plane and it keeps him airborne. Point of the story is I always see stiks flying regardless of the wind. I feel alot of it is the pilots skills but everywhere I read (and asked) people say the stik is a plane that should be in everyones hanger. While I do not know how it flys personally I just bought one and am building it up for my second plane because of how forgiving and easy people think it flies.

Take that for what you will but it influenced my choice in plane. I have the .40 Great Planes Stik

Ibid on the Stik's for windy conditions.

When the wind is so high that even the large planes get blown over on the ground, I'll put in big battery packs on my Big Stik .60 and fly....
The extra weight helps cut through the wind w/o adversely affecting lift because of those thick wings.

The Stik can do things in the wind that leaves others watching in amazement...

e.g. Torque rolls and prop hangs as the plane is blown down the entire field runway by the wind.

Zero speed and backward flight in the winds.

Heck you can take the plane up to a good altitude, drop the engine to idle and let it dance in the breeze for a LONG time.

I've put in 40+ minute flights by keeping the engine at idle half the time.

"What's he got in there?"
"Is the innards of the plane nothing but fuel?"
"How long has he been flying?"

Are questions I hear a lot when it is windy.

Great question.

When one says best in the wind I think of stability.<p class="MsoNormal">Well, stability is a trade off.</p><p class="MsoNormal">Heavy planes are stable or at least more stable in the wind.</p><p class="MsoNormal">Planes with a forward CG are more stable.</p><p class="MsoNormal">Planes with zero or less dihedral are more stable &ndash; In the wind.</p><p class="MsoNormal">Planes with a high wing loading are more stable.</p><p class="MsoNormal">Planes with high HP are more stable. They can power into and through the wind.</p><p class="MsoNormal"><o></o></p><p class="MsoNormal">So where does the trade off come in?</p><p class="MsoNormal">The short answer is: All of this is balanced against your skill level and what the mission is. If this is your WINDY plane then you have your answer. If this plane is going to fill ALL your flying requirement&hellip; Then nope, won&rsquo;t do that.</p><p class="MsoNormal"><o></o></p><p class="MsoNormal">Barry</p>

I would agree with most of your comments if you replaced "wind" with "gusts". How a plane aerodynamically responds to gusts is dictated by it's stability qualities. Don't confuse being blown around by a strong wind as being "unstable." There is a big difference. A plane with a cg too far aft is "unstable" regardless of winds. Gusts, on the other hand, would obviously have less effect on a heavier plane from an inertial standpoint.

Stability describes the aircraft's ability to return to its equilibrium state after experiencing a disturbance (usually from a gust, but not from a steady state wind). Static stability describes the aircraft's ability to INITIALLY return to it's original flight path. Dynamic stability describes the aircraft's ability to return to it's original flight path OVERTIME.

Stability is a trade off with maneuverability. "Powering into the wind" is simply that - power, or better "speed." It means simply flying faster than the headwind.

Also, don't always attribute the "twitchiness" of flying a plane into a strong headwind with a high power setting as being "unstable." You are probably experiencing a higher than normal airspeed in your attempt to maintain some type of groundspeed. And as a result, your controls are probably much more responsive and might feel "twitchier" than normal.

With all of this said, I love flying my sticks in the wind more than any of my other airplanes.

Steady winds really aren't much of a challenge. All you need there is a plane that's fairly neutral handling so that cross winds don't flip it up on its side and enough straight line speed to push through the wind and still maintain a decent ground speed. Also, the faster you can fly the less effect the wind has on the plane's flight path and attitude overall. Nearly any traditional "sport" plane fits the bill there, with the sticks being at the top of many flyer's lists. For gusty days it gets tougher, because you have the problem of big gusts hitting the front of the plane and slowing it down, and also swirling turbulence causing unwanted rolls. For those, you need a small frontal area and wings on the short side (less leverage for the turbulence to push on). And again, you need speed. Once again, sticks do the job nicely, as do most of the "senior pattern" type planes.

On a windy day, I show up with a .60 size ultra stick and a .40 size Kaos. The stick is for tossing around and playing in the wind, while the Kaos is for working on flight skills. I know the OP is asking about park flyers, so the simple answer to the question would be the Mini Ultra Stick for probably 10 mph winds as a beginner flyer and upwards of 18-20 mph with more skill. Once you've got flying that plane down, the hands down best windy day park flyer on the market is the Parkzone Stryker. I've had mine out in gusty 30-40 mph winds before (as reported by the weatherman) and it just shook it's rear and kept on flying!

<span style="font-size: medium; "><span style="font-family: Arial; ">Bozarth:</span> </span><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: medium; "><span style="font-family: Arial; "><o></o></span></span><span style="font-family:Arial"><o></o></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: medium; "><span style="font-family: Arial; ">You have to agree with all my statements as they are basic aero dynamic design principals. I did not mention the term gust; gusts come into play when talking of structural strength. And that was not the question, wind was. </span></span><span style="font-family:Arial"><o></o></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: medium; "><span style="font-family: Arial; "><o></o></span></span><span style="font-family:Arial"><o></o></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: medium; "><span style="font-family: Arial; ">CG&hellip; Why do you comment on aft CG? I&rsquo;m sure 97% of us know the hazards of aft CG. I spoke of forward CG in relationship to stability, Static or Dynamic. </span></span><span style="font-family:Arial"><o></o></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: medium; "><span style="font-family: Arial; ">Twitches &ndash; Well we are sitting here on computers and can not comment on a pilot&rsquo;s skills, dumb thumbs, shaky fingers or knocking knees. Hell, we are not even in the planes and we get nervous. It must be the Time &amp; Money invested that puts the fear or crash into us!</span></span><span style="font-family:Arial"><o></o></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: medium; "><span style="font-family: Arial; "><o></o></span></span><span style="font-family:Arial"><o></o></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: medium; "><span style="font-family: Arial; ">I read one of your other comments: &ldquo;<span style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: rgb(251, 252, 255); ">Steady winds really aren't much of a challenge. All you need there is a plane that's fairly neutral handling&hellip;&rdquo;</span></span></span><span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: rgb(251, 252, 255); background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; "><o></o></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: medium; "><span style="font-family: Arial; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: rgb(251, 252, 255); ">What happened to all your other comments on Static and Dynamic Stability? If you have Neutral you are one step above Negative Stability&hellip; Positive Stability (Forward CG), Neutral Stability (Neutral CG) and Negative CG (Aft CG). A new pilot needs Positive Stability and new windy day pilot needs Positive Stability. If the fellow is asking a question concerning stability (wind or not) I don&rsquo;t think he is at the skill level of pattern flying or 3D where neutral is desired. </span></span><span style="font-family:Arial"><o></o></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: medium; "><span style="font-family: Arial; ">And then you make the statement: &ldquo;<span style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: rgb(251, 252, 255); ">swirling turbulence causing unwanted rolls. For those, you need a small frontal area and wings on the short side (less leverage for the turbulence to push on).&rdquo;</span></span></span><span style="font-family:Arial"><span style="background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: rgb(251, 252, 255); background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; "><o></o></span></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: medium; "><span style="font-family: Arial; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: rgb(251, 252, 255); ">I guess you never heard of the term Roll Rate&hellip; Roll Rate is a function of wing span (length). The longer a wing span the slower the Roll Rate. The shorter the wingspan the faster the Roll Rate. So, one does not want a shorter wing plane for stability. Of course EVERYTHING is a trade off. Go too big in span and you become a kite, too small and you become a lawn dart. No one plane fits all missions.</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: rgb(251, 252, 255); background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; "><o></o></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: medium; "><span style="font-family: Arial; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: rgb(251, 252, 255); "><o></o></span></span><span style="font-family: Arial; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: rgb(251, 252, 255); background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; "><o></o></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: medium; "><span style="font-family: Arial; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: rgb(251, 252, 255); ">Barry</span></span><span style="font-family: Arial; background-image: initial; background-attachment: initial; background-origin: initial; background-clip: initial; background-color: rgb(251, 252, 255); background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial; "><o></o></span></p>

Hey Barry,

I agree with all of your aerodynamic principles - wind or no wind.

You are confusing me with someone else. Please re-read the thread.

Kurt

<span style="font-family: Arial; "><span style="font-size: large; ">Sorry Kurt:

I'm learning the format of RC Universe.

And not doing too well.

Barry</span></span>

No problem Barry -

N52961- It was my comments that you were quoting. For what it's worth, the aerodynamic principles you quoted are right. However, they are not relevant to the comments you were trying to argue against. And yes, I do know what roll rate is. In the future, you might consider looking at the time a fellow has on the site and number of posts he has made before assuming he's a dummy who doesn't know the most basic things about flying.

When I said "fairly neutral handling" I was not talking about a plane on the verge of instability. I was talking about an airframe designed for sport or aerobatics- ie, not a trainer or a a Cub. Any plane with a symmetrical airfoil without significant self-righting characteristics would fit the bill.

And yes, aspect ratio (wing length, for beginner readers) does impact the way a plane handles gusty, turbulent winds. It's just common sense to figure that the longer the wings are (all else being equal) the easier it is for the two ends to be in different wind. Take for example two planes I flew this week: A H9 .40 size Cub, and an original Balsa USA Phaeton biplane. The wind was around 12 mph and a little turbulent. The Cub lurched and tossed, rolling and yawing unpredictably on its own and not wanting to make smooth turns when flown at a scalelike speed. I think it's fun to fly it on days like that, but easy it's not. The Phaeton has a smaller fuselage, much shorter wings, and flies 50% faster with the same horsepower up front. It flew smoothly and did basic aerobatics with only simple wind corrections.