Make that Trainer smoother at landing speeds
06-26-2012, 07:58 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Make that Trainer smoother at landing speeds
Just a thought about something I do most of the time with any non-scale model that has strip ailerons all the way to the tips. Maybe it will be helpfull to some of you folks and not just beginners. 
1. Especially with wings that are less than symetrical, I cut the aileron at about 3 to 4 Inches from the tip. I glue that portion back to the wing with about 3-5 degrees UP. To add a hinge to the end of the remaining aileron is rather easy.
2.Cut a normal slot in the aileron. Same for the wing if the aileron is not yet fixed in place. Place a hinge in that end area.
3.If the aileron is already hinged, do the slot in the aileron by bending it down or up and make a slot with a knife. Then cut a small piece of the trailing edge away to accept the other end of the hinge. Then glue it back in place. It's out of sight and it will hold the aileron in place.
You will be very surprised what this bit of effectively, "washout" does for your slow flight, especially landing speeds. I learned this way back when I found that with Scale Warbirds, Take-offs and Landings became much easier if the entire aileron was raised about 3-8 degrees above the main wing. When it's right, that old booger, Tip-Stall, pretty much disappears.
The above assumes that you have laterally balanced your model.
EDITED:
Didn't mean for two pictures. The cut and redo is not shown here, just the ailerons to full wing length. This was for club racing but since that is over, I cut the aileron 3.5 inches bacl. Landings are smooth and easy. No sudden yaw & r0ll on take-off as before.
1. Especially with wings that are less than symetrical, I cut the aileron at about 3 to 4 Inches from the tip. I glue that portion back to the wing with about 3-5 degrees UP. To add a hinge to the end of the remaining aileron is rather easy.
2.Cut a normal slot in the aileron. Same for the wing if the aileron is not yet fixed in place. Place a hinge in that end area.
3.If the aileron is already hinged, do the slot in the aileron by bending it down or up and make a slot with a knife. Then cut a small piece of the trailing edge away to accept the other end of the hinge. Then glue it back in place. It's out of sight and it will hold the aileron in place.
You will be very surprised what this bit of effectively, "washout" does for your slow flight, especially landing speeds. I learned this way back when I found that with Scale Warbirds, Take-offs and Landings became much easier if the entire aileron was raised about 3-8 degrees above the main wing. When it's right, that old booger, Tip-Stall, pretty much disappears.
The above assumes that you have laterally balanced your model.
EDITED:
Didn't mean for two pictures. The cut and redo is not shown here, just the ailerons to full wing length. This was for club racing but since that is over, I cut the aileron 3.5 inches bacl. Landings are smooth and easy. No sudden yaw & r0ll on take-off as before.
06-26-2012, 08:28 AM
#2
RE: Make that Trainer smoother at landing speeds
Washout use to be built into about everything. We've tended away from it.
It works by preventing the tips from stalling before the rest of the wing. Tip stalls are why old timers warn not to start with warbirds. Some (real and model) had a very nasty tendency to stall violently - even at non-landing speeds when that wing began to stall from maneuvers. Foamies tend to have some - possibly caused by the wing warping more the further it is from the fuselage.
It works by preventing the tips from stalling before the rest of the wing. Tip stalls are why old timers warn not to start with warbirds. Some (real and model) had a very nasty tendency to stall violently - even at non-landing speeds when that wing began to stall from maneuvers. Foamies tend to have some - possibly caused by the wing warping more the further it is from the fuselage.
06-26-2012, 03:23 PM
#4
RE: Make that Trainer smoother at landing speeds
ORIGINAL: Hossfly
Just a thought about something I do most of the time with any non-scale model that has strip ailerons all the way to the tips. Maybe it will be helpfull to some of you folks and not just beginners.
1. Especially with wings that are less than symetrical, I cut the aileron at about 3 to 4 Inches from the tip. I glue that portion back to the wing with about 3-5 degrees UP. To add a hinge to the end of the remaining aileron is rather easy.
2.Cut a normal slot in the aileron. Same for the wing if the aileron is not yet fixed in place. Place a hinge in that end area.
3.If the aileron is already hinged, do the slot in the aileron by bending it down or up and make a slot with a knife. Then cut a small piece of the trailing edge away to accept the other end of the hinge. Then glue it back in place. It's out of sight and it will hold the aileron in place.
You will be very surprised what this bit of effectively, ''washout'' does for your slow flight, especially landing speeds. I learned this way back when I found that with Scale Warbirds, Take-offs and Landings became much easier if the entire aileron was raised about 3-8 degrees above the main wing. When it's right, that old booger, Tip-Stall, pretty much disappears.
The above assumes that you have laterally balanced your model.
EDITED:
Didn't mean for two pictures. The cut and redo is not shown here, just the ailerons to full wing length. This was for club racing but since that is over, I cut the aileron 3.5 inches bacl. Landings are smooth and easy. No sudden yaw & r0ll on take-off as before.
Just a thought about something I do most of the time with any non-scale model that has strip ailerons all the way to the tips. Maybe it will be helpfull to some of you folks and not just beginners.
1. Especially with wings that are less than symetrical, I cut the aileron at about 3 to 4 Inches from the tip. I glue that portion back to the wing with about 3-5 degrees UP. To add a hinge to the end of the remaining aileron is rather easy.
2.Cut a normal slot in the aileron. Same for the wing if the aileron is not yet fixed in place. Place a hinge in that end area.
3.If the aileron is already hinged, do the slot in the aileron by bending it down or up and make a slot with a knife. Then cut a small piece of the trailing edge away to accept the other end of the hinge. Then glue it back in place. It's out of sight and it will hold the aileron in place.
You will be very surprised what this bit of effectively, ''washout'' does for your slow flight, especially landing speeds. I learned this way back when I found that with Scale Warbirds, Take-offs and Landings became much easier if the entire aileron was raised about 3-8 degrees above the main wing. When it's right, that old booger, Tip-Stall, pretty much disappears.
The above assumes that you have laterally balanced your model.
EDITED:
Didn't mean for two pictures. The cut and redo is not shown here, just the ailerons to full wing length. This was for club racing but since that is over, I cut the aileron 3.5 inches bacl. Landings are smooth and easy. No sudden yaw & r0ll on take-off as before.
CGr
06-26-2012, 05:18 PM
#5
RE: Make that Trainer smoother at landing speeds
Any time you change the stability of an A/C it can change its ability to perform aerobatics. This is not to say that an aerobatic plane can't be stable, but changing the stability can affect its performance ie: increasing the washout can decrease its ability to spin/snap roll.
06-26-2012, 06:51 PM
#6
My Feedback: (-1)
RE: Make that Trainer smoother at landing speeds
I still run into some of the old kits with built in wash. I {THINK} my CG EXTRA was one of them and the SIG Kobra? Been a while sense I built one but as I recall they had tabs on the ribs bottom rear so it was an automatic build in. It works very well and is needed on some types of planes. Most of the kits we have today it isn't necessary but if one of your kit built planes is prone to tip stalling this sounds like a pretty good idea.
06-26-2012, 09:00 PM
#8
RE: Make that Trainer smoother at landing speeds
GB that is wash out you are talking about not "in wash" and its is very beneficial to most modelers in some form or another. Doing a maiden on me new Mosquito in the morn and of course have already reflexed some up in the ailerons.
John
John
06-28-2012, 06:17 PM
#9
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RE: Make that Trainer smoother at landing speeds
This post leads into a question i've been wondering about. I picked up a CG Eaglet 50 from another club member recently. It is easily a vintage 80's build in great shape, needs a engine and radio. The ailerons are evenly, slowly, raised up towards the wingtip. Was, or is, that a common practice to put some washout in the ailerons? Also, I have another Eaglet that I fly on occassion with an o.s.25. I think it flies a little Heavy. I need another engine for the Eaglet I recently picked-up. Would an O.S. 15 be a good choice for an Eaglet instead of another .25 Jag215
07-01-2012, 10:30 PM
#10
Thread Starter
RE: Make that Trainer smoother at landing speeds
ORIGINAL: jag215
This post leads into a question i've been wondering about. I picked up a CG Eaglet 50 from another club member recently. It is easily a vintage 80's build in great shape, needs a engine and radio. The ailerons are evenly, slowly, raised up towards the wingtip. Was, or is, that a common practice to put some washout in the ailerons?
This post leads into a question i've been wondering about. I picked up a CG Eaglet 50 from another club member recently. It is easily a vintage 80's build in great shape, needs a engine and radio. The ailerons are evenly, slowly, raised up towards the wingtip. Was, or is, that a common practice to put some washout in the ailerons?
Also, I have another Eaglet that I fly on occassion with an o.s.25. I think it flies a little Heavy. I need another engine for the Eaglet I recently picked-up. Would an O.S. 15 be a good choice for an Eaglet instead of another .25 Jag215
Good Luck!
07-02-2012, 06:45 AM
#11
RE: Make that Trainer smoother at landing speeds
Another way to get the same effect is to taper the ailerons.
Note there are several interesting features in this model (Top Flite Contender 60): angled-up wing tips trailing edges (low wing has slightly more lift), tapered silerons that end well inboard of tips, and a central apron flap (the one-piece orange section that extends underneath the fuselage) that drops for low-speed lift. This wing has no dihedral at all (save the trailing edge of the tips) and yet is very forgiving over a wide range of speeds.
Another thought is that to help low speed handling the model should be balanced laterally. If not it will have to be trimmed to fly level, and if trimmed at crusing speed it will likely have different characteristics at lower speed when the wing has less lift.
Note there are several interesting features in this model (Top Flite Contender 60): angled-up wing tips trailing edges (low wing has slightly more lift), tapered silerons that end well inboard of tips, and a central apron flap (the one-piece orange section that extends underneath the fuselage) that drops for low-speed lift. This wing has no dihedral at all (save the trailing edge of the tips) and yet is very forgiving over a wide range of speeds.
Another thought is that to help low speed handling the model should be balanced laterally. If not it will have to be trimmed to fly level, and if trimmed at crusing speed it will likely have different characteristics at lower speed when the wing has less lift.
07-06-2012, 09:50 AM
#12
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RE: Make that Trainer smoother at landing speeds
If you have a better radio, why not put in a "landing" mode with reflex on both ailerons?
Wouldn't that be simpler than cutting the existing strip ailerons?
Wouldn't that be simpler than cutting the existing strip ailerons?
