Hi all,

I am a RC returnee, I flew for a few years when I was younger and am now returning to this wonderful hobby. I am writing this out of confusion and self frustration (both self inflicted). I have looked throughout the forums and picked up great information with regards to starting out (or in my case restarting) but I find choosing just about anything difficult unless I can rate it against something else and read reviews. I have created a list of all the things I will need - from the model, engine and radio to field box and equipment to workshop tools and equipment. I can understand some people may say it better to build up what you need as you need it but I am a sucker for preparation and getting everything I need first time round and hopefully scoring some discount in the process. Second to this I like to buy quality goods which will last rather than cheaper item which need replaced more frequently, I also don't like buying something which I know I will need to replace or upgrade (or even no longer use). In certain instances this is ok e.g. the trainer plane, I know it will serve its purpose and then be cast to the back to make way for new models but for the likes of engines and radio gear they must have use later on.
Before picking a club I created a mini points system for location, weather, size, support, training and clubhouse to help me figure out which was one was best on paper, overly anal? maybe but when your time is limited I think you need to make the absolute best of it and best for it. I digress, what I am here for is some help, some guidance from you experienced flyers, builders and enthusiasts. My main gripes is noting the difference between, lets says trainers, how do you decide what is best? I know most trainers are much the same but there are minor difference for example the seagull boomerang states its a sports trainer with a semi symmetrical wing, now compare that to maybe the Thunder Tiger Trainer MKIII or well actually I can't, how do you actually compare them? I see people recommending models but not really describing why they are good? They say there good then they say are all the much the same, I can't quite get my head around that!! Maybe they are just all round good models, I'm not sure as there never seems to be any supporting information. Another more potent example is radio equipment and the one which I am having most issues choosing (well that's a lie, I have only got to item 2 of my list of 50 or so items!). There are so many radios with so many features. I want to buy a good radio which will last me if I decide to build a Lancaster with all the trimmings. Is 9 channel enough or should it be more or even less? (I know this is a bit of how long is a piece of string but there much be a common understanding of this) I have been, on more than one occasion been told buy a DX6i as they're great and serve my needs, but I reply I don't want one as I want to future proof my radio for just about any eventuality. And that's only channels, without then trying to figure out about the different FAST or FHSS systems and all the additional features plus all the new radio manufacturers (and why is my favourite JR so expensive compared to Spektrum??). As I look at my list I see others like starter, what is a good starter and where do I find that kind of information out? I think the answer may simply be write a thread for each item on your list but figure there must be others out there who think like I and have done this themselves!

Hope you can help me out on my path to RC enlightenment!

Rob

First off, if you haven't read the sticky at the top of the page that lists trainers, do that. I'll try to make it simple for you though, because this is just how I think of it. You have traditional trainers, sport trainers, and sport planes. If you are working with an instructor any of them will work, especially since you have some flying experience. Basic trainers are the flat bottom, high dihedral jobs that we've been using for decades. The differences between them are fairly minor from what I've seen, with a few being a little lighter and a few being easier to fix, etc. Sport trainers have less dihedral and semi-symmetrical wings. They are better in the wind and fly vertical lines and inverted better at the expense of not being as quick to self-correct. An example is the Hobbico Avistar (the hands down favorite at my windy club). Sport models take it a step further, usually with symmetrical wings and close to neutral handling, but still stall resistant and really good in the wind. The venerable old Ugly Stick is the quintessential sport plane, with the Sig 4 Star a close second. If you want someone to narrow the choices down to you to the best ARF of each class, my answer would be the Sig LT40, the Hobbico Avistar, and the Hangar 9 Super Stick.

As for radios, Futaba, Hitec, JR/Spektrum (same company) and Airtronics all make quality units, although if you do some searching you'll find lots of anecdotes of Spektrum equipment having mysterious failures. But they are also the market leader so it could be a simple case of the law of averages. Figure out exactly which Lancaster you'll want to build and how many channels you'll need for it, and pick a radio from any of those 4 that does what you need it to.

You also asked about field gear, and frankly it doesn't really matter. A 12/24 volt brushed electric motor with a cone on the front isn't hard to figure out, so get the color you like. I will recommend though going with a battery pack attached to your starter instead of using cords. It makes life easier at the field.

I can see needing 9 to 12 channels, possibly more, for for an extremely scaled out WWII bomber.
Off the top of my head
1 or 2 ailerons
1 or 2 flaps
1 elevator
1 throttle, possibly more for 4 engines
1 landing gear
1 bomb bay
1 bomb release
1 lights
1 per gunner turret

Since it might be a few years before you are ready to build and fly this monster I do not think buying a radio for it now is a good idea. Radios change so what you think is future proof probably isn't. In a few years, who knows what will be available? The current whiz-bang 2.4ghz stuff may be 'old news,' replaced by something even better.

If JR is your favorite, you can get an XG6 for about $230, and go for the thousand dollar plus unit later.

+1 on the Avistar for it's windy day versatility. I am really looking forward to the new "Avistar Elite". Since I instruct and intro fly I will put one of these in my hangar for those occasions and the every now and then when you want some basic flying around.

Carrellh thanks for the information - I was thinking 9 channels is a good point to aim for, providing enough for future but not to much as to break the bank (Aurora 9 or XG8 probably).

jester thanks for your reply, gave me a little insight into options. I did look at the links provided on the trainer page but there is no other info so its really providing a list of links to purchase with no supporting info into whether they are good or not and for what reasons. Also alot of the models on that page are not available in the UK or discontinued (I think). Also thanks for the explanation on wings, hopefully any trainer I do look at will have that info attached so I can figure what kind of trainer it is. I did read some info on Spektrum and Hitec with possible issues but any argument has a for and against! I narrowed my choice down to the Aurora 9 and XG8 just from features and general feeling I get from reading reviews and threads. I guess I just need to research a bit into each aspect of the hobby and this will indeed grow and I progress and gain more knowledge. Thanks again.

No problem Robert. Either of the two radios you mentioned will serve you very well. I don't know anyone who has an XG8, but several guys in my club bought he Aurora 9. All have said it's the simplest and easiest radio to set up new planes with they've ever used. As for knowing the difference in trainers, looking at the wing dihedral will tell you 90% of the design features. If it has no wing taper and roughly the same dihedral as the Avistar, then it's a sport trainer. If it has more dihedral like an LT40 it's a traditional trainer.

You didn't ask this, but I'll also make an engine recommendation. OS reigns supreme, at least here in the US, which would mean if you choose a .40 size trainer the OS .46 AX is the best engine on the market for it. That said, the Thunder Tiger .46 Pro is essentially a copy of the previous OS .46 FX, and I can't tell any difference at all in the quality, power, or reliability. The good news is the Thunder Tiger is about $50 cheaper, making it the best value in RC engines today.

Some glow powered trainers with UK availability. I do not know if this is a good dealer; I saw refereence to them years ago and saved the bookmark
http://www.sussex-model-centre.co.uk...for+IC+Engines
http://www.sussex-model-centre.co.uk...for+IC+Engines

Some of these are available in the USA, some are not. Even though RCU has members worldwide, the majority of posts I see come from the US so info about some of these models will have to come from other sources.

One reason there's not a lot of info about which trainer is 'best' is because it is so subjective. Many people think the trainer they learned with is best even if they have flown lots of others since then.

Since you already have some flying experience, I would choose;
any trainer with semi-symmetrical airfoil, or a sport plane such as
ARF http://www.sussex-model-centre.co.uk...d.asp?id=25446 or the 40 size if available
ARF http://www.sussex-model-centre.co.uk...xd.asp?id=2216
KIT http://www.sussex-model-centre.co.uk...d.asp?id=21604 or the 60 size
KIT http://www.sussex-model-centre.co.uk/shopexd.asp?id=209

With an instructor to help you I think any of these would work well to get you flying again.

Robert,
Have you joined a club yet?
Many clubs have a plane that is specifically used for training.
If you join a club that has a plane for training, I would suggest that you go through some training first before buying a plane.
You can get a feel for what the club's plane is like and talk to the members in the club face to face, to get a lot of valuable information.
There or many facters in deciding what kind of trainer to get.
My advice is talk to a club before making any purchases.
another benefit for doing this, is that many clubs have a tendancy to lean towards a specific brand, which can make things easier if you go with that brand.
for example I bought a futaba radio before joining a club.
My club uses Spektrum and JR almost exclusively. This made it a little difficult at the beginning becouse it make it dificult for them to help me set up my radio or to use it with a buddy box.

Just my 2 cents.
Good luck with what ever you choose.

Thanks again for the wealth of information and thank you for taking your time to pass it on! It is very much appreciated.

jester - Absolutely I am still doing reading and trying to understand what all the features are and also when I read about issues they have I then go read about that so slowly building my knowledge. So far I have read both are great - the Hi-Tec has (possible) latency issues and is not compatible with Spektrum (I think this is receivers, no?) The JR is a good deal more expensive and doesn't have features which the Hi-Tec does (touchscreen is real nice) and vice verse it will take a while for me to come to a decision.

I didn't mention engines as that was my next item, I was trying to find an Enya (was my first engine and I loved it) but they don't seem to be as popular as before. The thing I would like to know about engines is what to steer clear from, I remember when I was young there were certain manufacturers which lacked quality. Are there the same now? I remember Irvines were not on the same level as Enya/OS. Also there are quite a few new ones which I have no idea about.

carellh - Sussex is top of my bookmarks The two trainers I have earmarked are the Seagull Boomerang and the Thunder Tiger Trainer MKIII, I know the boomerang is a sport trainer but I'm not sure about the Thuder Tiger, which I prefer (visually and also sentimentally) but I am trying to find info out about the flying characteristics. Also the Pulse XT60 will be my second model, I had one boxed a while ago when I tried to restart the hobby and looked like a fantastic model so will definitely be getting one again!

harlanb - thanks for replying, I am visiting a club a week on Monday to talk to the members and get a feel for it, but my gut tells me its home! They do have a trainer but you need to book it out I think, I will get some trial flights on the buddy box before your allowed to join (or at least to assess your capability). I am also going to talk at length to the members about my different alleyways, you also make a very valid point which I have no considered with regards to the buddy boxing and compatible radios, I will need to talk to them about this.

Thanks again all for the warm help.

What seems to be the way to go is continuous frequency hopping 2.4 Ghz radios.

For many years Spektrum/JR have been promoting how their 2 freqency switching system is superior.
First one system, then another, satelite recievers etc etc, always changing & fiddling.

Then, at first in Japan on the quiet, then the rest of the world JR have also changed to a continuous frequency hopping setup
like their competitors (Futaba, Hitec, Airtronics/Sanwa etc). If you are going JR I would suggest waiting until the new system
is available where you are.

When I changed from 36 Mhz to 2.4 Ghz it meant totally new transmitter & recievers so I went Futaba after 2 decades with JR.

It's worth remembering though that probably millions of succesful flights have been made with the old JR 2.4 Ghz systems.

Intersesting thought. I've always been a ''buy the best you can afford first up' thinker but with the constant changes in technology
you are probably right. - John.

I have a Thunder Tiger Trainer MKIII. It has a flat bottom airfoil and a lot of dihedral. Nothing wrong with it but I prefer a flatter wing no matter what the airfoil is.

Hi Robert

The Seagull Boomerang is very popular over here in Oz. I have one that I bought when I had aspirations to do an instructor course (a new job put that on hold!) with a Saito 62 in it.

I have taken a couple of noobs up with it and it seems to do the job very well. Doesn't knife edge too well though[>:]
Terry

I am going to try and test ride systems in my hands, on paper they are both great and have positives and negatives, I think holding one wil seal the deal.

Thanks carrelh, is this then a traditional style trainer? Maybe I will be best off with the boomerang as itsa marketed as a sports trainer.

Redback - same here in the UK, I think its our version of the Avistar, very popular and sporty.

Onto engines then!

Are there any to steer clear from?

I have the Thunder Tiger trainer also, but it's the older one. My only gripe is that the whole top is plastic, so if I have a moderately damaging crash (which I did on the first flight due to a battery that didn't stay put) you can't just break out the balsa and covering iron and cobble it back together. The wind tosses it around a lot, so I don't like to instruct with it on windy days. Some of the other instructors who use Avistars keep flying with their students though, and they do fine.

As for brands to stay away from, MDS comes to mind as having a really bad reputation, and Super Tigres take a long time to break in and can be frustrating to tune. ST's are quality engines, but the design is more geared toward durability and performance instead of being user friendly. The first generation of Evolutions had a few bad apples, including one that I still have in my garage that cannot be tuned to run reliably in any possible way. For stuff that's currently manufactured though with reliability and ease of break in and tuning the top priorities, I'd say OS, Evolution, and Thunder Tiger are all top tier, with Magnum/ASP (they are the same) and the MECOA line as second tier but still serviceable, and everything else either is inferior quality or has design choices that make them poor beginner choices.

A 46AX in a Boomerang would be hard to beat. I have one (had a few 46FXs before) and it starts reliably and runs very well. Thunder Tiger PRO46 would be good too.

Terry

Thanks, do you know of SC or super custom, they seem to be in most shops, look like OS copies (well the text does)

I've heard of them. They are made by Kange IIRC. They seem to have a decent reputation, on par with the Magnum/ASP engines. I don't know anyone who has had one though.

Futaba 8FGAs would be a good starting radio too. 8 Standard channels and 14 digital using sbus.  I have one of those and a DX8. Both are good radios, the DX8 is easier to program than the Futaba, I can never locate that dang timer setting on the Futaba.  <div>
</div><div>For a starter plane, highly recommend a Kadet LT40 with a Magnum 52 FS on it turning an APC 11x7 prop. Great flying plane, and I use the Futaba to fly it. </div>