That is a valid point, though. A buddy has a giant bipe, and it takes a LONG time to set up.

I have one of the Reactor bipes with a Rimfire 80, which is nice in that i don't have to disassemble it to transport.

I just started flying RC back in July. I learned on an Apprentice 15e and flew it for about two months. Then I bought an E-flite S.E. 5a biplane. I set it up and had a friend give it its maiden. He took off, flew it through some basic maneuvers, and handed the box to me saying that it was easy to fly. He was correct. At just above half throttle it buzzed along in a fairly slow scale manner. The long nose means that it isn't as sensitive in handling as shorter WW-I bipes. The lack of rigging means it is less "draggy". The wings have some dihedral making it pretty stable. Both top and bottom wings have ailerons giving it plenty of roll authority. It has a 44" wingspan and fits easily into the back of my pickup. I'll note a couple of things to keep in mind. I used to fly full scale including tail draggers so I instinctively use the rudder when flying models. The S.E. turns best when a little rudder is fed in just before ailerons. It will "bank and yank" but tends to wallow through the turn if not given the rudder input. My other caution involves take off and landing. I fly from a grass field and in spite of having fairly large wheels the S.E. will nose over on take off if power is applied too quickly and if the elevator isn't held full "up" to nail the tail down. Ease the throttle on slowly. It's a matter of learning when to ease up on the elevator and allow the tail to fly so the plane doesn't jump off the ground in a nose high attitude. The plane will also tend to nose over on landing. The plane glides well so I set up my final approach and let her float down. About a foot off the ground I start back on the stick and nurse it into a three point landing. It still tips over occasionally but most of the time I look like I know what I'm doing. If you want a bipe that flies well and is capable of stalls, spins, loops, etc, you could do worse than the S.E. Just my two cents.

John

I'd recommend an older version Real Flight simulator sold in many venues. Most have biplanes on them, 3D airframes, electric motor gliders, and other types as well. They are VERY realistic. Of course nothing is like flying at the field, but most of the guys I've helped learn to fly make great progress using the simulators. Get a good sim for $75, use it a while, sell it for $65. Better still, keep it for practice.

The Hanger 9 Tango 40's I've flown or seen flown have a very different reaction to rudder input. Very strange.

I have a Great Planes Ultimate Bipe. It is one of the best planes I have ever owned.
I actually still own it and bought a second one when my receiver antenna failed and I crashed. It is a very gentle, easy to fly plane and does not tip stall easily. There is a massive thread on it under the 3D forum. Yes it slows down when you take power off but it is not abrupt and makes landing very easy. I find it way easier to land than planes that hold on to their energy. It can do 3D, I find it struggles fighting a torque roll in a hover. The ailerons in a Bipe are not aligned with the thrust of the prop. If you look around you can find them used for great prices.

GP Skybolt is an easy bi-plane to fly.
Flys well and doesnt have any bad habits. Does all the basic aerobatics nicely, but isnt a 3-D bird.

Unless you let it get too slow on final. Then it flies just like a brick. I miss that plane.

A guy at our club had a Skybolt and he really liked it. It really flew good and looked good too.

Niiiice. I'm going to maiden a skybolt if the weather ever let's me. And I agree with you on the ultimate. A great plane,( pun intended.) I also miss mine. I crashed mine for the last time because of a NIMH pack. I've since fully switched over to Life packs and love them.

It all comes down to aircraft wing loading and overall setup, I have flown Ultimate's that were vary tame and flew 3D well and I have also flown some that were down right unpleasant with any stick impute whatsoever.

Bob

Very true bob. I don't remember the specifics, but my ultimate was quite a bit lighter than the recommended weight with a very low wing loading. Same goes for the skybolt that I'm getting ready to go do the maiden on. The kit version should be 8.5 to 9.5 lbs, mine is just barely 7 lbs with a wing loading of 17.34 and 6.8 cubed. It should be a real blast with a 120 surpass up front. I'll let you know how it flies later. Steve.

Here's the problem I see with recommending something like an Ultimate. If built lightly and straight they are great planes to fly. I don't think anyone disputes that.

But to recommend it to a beginner or someone who hasn't flown RC for decades I think isn't the best advice.

The conversation has been how smooth, stable and easily it flies. But the problem is it is designed for aerobatics and thus when the beginner gets confused, disoriented or whatever, he can't just let go of the sticks and let the plane right itself because it's designed to be neutrally stable which means going where it's pointed without rotating on any axis unless told to do so.

I didn't see if Bob said how good of a pilot he was back when, but if he was beginner or intermediate when he left the hobby then the Ultimate may be even worse.

I had a very turbulent young adulthood. That means broke a lot. So a lot of times I couldn't afford model airplanes but I've never considered myself to be "out" of the hobby at any time - even times when I was gone for a decade. Usually I would start off with a trainer again just to get into the swing of things. I did notice most of those times I didn't really need a trainer. I didn't fly with a lot of precision or style, but I always knew which way to move the sticks regardless of whether the plane was coming or going.

So in that sense he may be fine with an Ultimate.

I think the best thing for Bob to do is go to a local field, talk to some people, see if someone will give him some stick time on a trainer and see if he thinks he's up to something more advanced or needs more trainer time.

I fully agree. I thought the op pretty much got the answers he was looking for, and we were just conversing at this point about biplanes. I'm not trying to push the ultimates on anyone as a trainer. Because it certainly isn't one.

Ah... ok. I missed some posts I think.

that happens sometimes

Okay - I have to admit I just skimmed this post. I still recomend the GP Ultimate. Even with a DA -50 it has low wing loading. However, after being away from the hobby for so long I would recommend two things first:

1. Practice on a simulator until bored.
2. Practice with a Trainer untill bored.

I have a friend who was out of the hobby for 5 years. It has been very difficult for him to come back. Part of the problem is that he thinks his skills are what they were when he was flying a lot and he keeps pushing himself beyond his capabilities. This has been hard on his airplane collection and I think perhaps hard on his ego as well.

Take it very slow and cautious at first until your confidence and skills are good. Then fly the fun stuff.

Also - Florida sounds great for the winter!!!!

I have had a lot of planes over the years and like to 3d. Small nitro biplanes are very hard to hover but stunt very well. They are box like and have a fast roll and tumble rate. If you want to 3d don't get a small biplane. Also I would not recommend a ultimate type bype for a beginner because it is easy to loose the orientation of the plane compared to a single wing. I did fly a small electric biplane that could hover. As far as a slow flying 3d capable plane I would highly recommend a 60 size u can do from great planes. It flies great and slows down like a kite. You can just as easily be tought (that's the key buddy box with a instructor) on that plane as you could a trainer. Reinforce the gear mount or you will rip the gear out eventually. That is it's only weak spot. Good luck.

Agreed. I had one of those. Real fun, and forgiving lil plane.

Per your second question... A good intro 3D plane is the Great Planes U-Can-Do 3D 46 or 60. Very fun and forgiving and they float in on landing.

Agreed, we are now talking about biplanes only, I would never recommend something like an Ultimate to a beginner, with that said I think you are on track to some great flying lightweight airplanes.

Bob

Agreed, I had flown nothing but bipe for a number of years and found some a lot better then others. A lot depends on set up too. The best all around Bipe I ever had was my 66 inch Tiger Moth, it was as close as a trainer as I have ever gotten but it would still stunt when needed. I have flown several giant scale Ultimate ARFs for people, several I had assembled and set up for them. Some were just better then others but the Ultimate is a full on stunt plane and can get away from someone new to flying or just returning to the hobby.Most 3-D planes are easy to fly if you move the CG forward and cut down on the control throws and soften them up a bit. I love Bipes but hate assembling them. I could get my Moth and Boeing into my van assembled but it took a while to figure out how. I took both of them with me to most IMAA events fully assembled.

1ST I would like to thank you all for taking the time to help me out. I gained a lot of good information. For the record I was just getting the hang of flying a high wing trainer, and yes it was almost 40 years ago or so. I built a " Great Planes Cherokee" and that was the end of my flying, a combination of over confidence and a windy day re-kitted that plane in a hurry.
The "lazy aces" will be in my future I'm sure, I like the looks of that plane and I think I'll enjoy building one. I've built more planes that I flew back in the day.
To answer JohnBuckers question, I was flying "reeds" and single channel . Boy how things have changed.
Someone also mentioned a U CAN DO 3D which looks kinda cool.
Anyway thanks all
Bob

A few posts back some said they lost their aircraft when the receiver antenna failed. How does a receiver antenna fail in flight?

Hmm, Well once in the 72mhz days when I was active in Q500 pylon, antennas always trailed about fourteen inchs past the stinger and during the heat of the launch in which the airplanes were are always rather violently shoved forward when the flag drops.

My team mate made a picture perfect launch however just a hundred feet after the launch I discovered I had nothing with predictable results and looking down there was most of my antenna still under his knee.

Just Saying

John

I had a mystery crash and when I was checking my gear the antenna fell off right at the box, the black rot got it. That was with 72. I have seen dozens of brown out crashes with 2.4 but that tends to be a lack of battery power. I have even seen crashes caused by people forgetting to unwrap the antenna when a new RX was used. I have seen a couple of planes go down with the same problem as John, the old knee on the wire trick. Two of my planes had lost the bind somehow, not sure if that could happen in flight or not?

nice John wish I had a trailer for my planes tried a 4-7 trailer to get my Pitts BullDog down the field but was a disaster even tho I had the plane tied down the trailer was bouncing my plane around only got to the end of the street and turned back, she fits nice and snug in the Nissan patrol so I might stick with that till I find a way to tie my planes down in a trailer !