I am still working with my trainer, and getting pretty comfortable with the controls. I was told that my plane could fly "hands off" inverted. I was under the impression that a plane with a flat bottom airfoil could not fly those types of aerobatic moves. So hypothetically, If I were "three mistakes high" what is the best way to make the transition from flying upright to flying inverted? I can make vertical loops with ease, do I just make a half loop and continue flying upside down? Is there a web site with information on how to move the controls to perform different moves? I know that my trainer is not going to perform hair splitting moves, but I keep reading that the old timers can do almost anything with a high winged trainer that the young guys can do with their sporty models. I would also like to familiarize myself with the names of those moves that you experts keep bragging about....Hammerhead??? Hmm, Something I use to drive nails. hehe

Cant you roll it inverted, doing a half roll??

Well, the plane will roll, it just rolls slowly. Is that the correct way to invert ?

Hmm then i guess you could do a half loop. My avistar rolls pretty fast.

This is a familiar thread for me, since my goal for this year was to learn to fly well inverted.

The easiest way to get inverted is to roll. You may have to stick the nose up a little before rolling if you don't want to lose too much altitude if your plane rolls slowly. Be ready to apply a little down elevator as soon as you finish the roll (it should be just a little pressure on the stick, hardly any movement). Do one thing at a time: A little up elevator to raise the nose, let go. Hold the aileron to roll, then let go. A little down elevator to fly level inverted. If you panic, ROLL, don't try any other manuever to get out.

When you have level flight inverted, you'll see that the ailerons do the same thing as they do upright, just the elevator is backwards. Now, try a turn. Bank the plane, add a little more down elevator. Level the wing. Yeah! Roll out and rest! Try a figure 8. Low passes are pretty easy.

A good flyer told me it would take "4 planes" to learn inverted flying. I'm really only on my second, but if you have access to a simulator, you can really save a lot of balsa. Think about building a SPAD!

Actually the thing that will work against you the most is not the flat bottom, but the large amount of dihedral normal in a trainer. That dihedral makes the plane self correcting for upright flight, but tends to make it less stable inverted. Still, you'll probably be fine.

MikeDC, that's kinda funny the "good flyer" told you that. I wonder if he has a 4-plane measuring cup he can poor new flyers experience into and find out exactly. I really don't see why 1 plane won't do. Anything can fly inverted. I used to regularly fly my .15 sized rudder/elevator only stick inverted and that was my first plane. If that can do it then anything can.

PS. Before anybody says rudder/elevator can't fly invert it will yaw in the wrong direction but still roll correctly. Not pretty but it works.

the rudder is also reversed when inverted... It was a real pain figuring this out for the first time not that high off the ground.

I have seen people try flying inverted rudder turns low and when tring to pull out use up elevator and have the plane go directly into the ground. Make sure you are high enough when trying this for the first couple times that if you use the wrong elevator it will just do a half loop and come back to right side up.

I found that the easiest way to get inverted is to do a half roll. The dihedral will make it harder to fly inverted.

Ogriv,
First off, there aren't many planes that will fly inverted "hands off". Most planes will need a little down elevator to hold altitude, some more than others. I have seen good pilots put planes in on low inverted passes because their thumb slipped off the stick. Your trainer will fly inverted with no problem, but be aware that if you get the nose pointed down and you pull out inverted (down elevator) it might be more stress than the wing can handle. A plane with lots of dihedral in the wing (which most trainers have) gets some serious pressure on it when put into that situation. Glassing the wing will help but sometimes even that's not enough. When helping someone learn inverted flight I prefer to have them enter it by doing just what you said, a half loop. By doing that you have gained yourself some extra altitude which is a good thing.

I have a Alpha Trainer and my flight instructor has been able to fly it inverted with level flight with no problems.
I have not gone soloed yet but hope to this weekend since my instructor may be going on an extended trip for the rest of the year.

Good luck

J. Stewart
Nashville, Tn

What Stick Jammer said. If it flew inverted "hands off" it would be a very advanced trainer, indeed. With generous dihedral, a flat bottomed wing with positive incedence when level and a generally nose heavy center of gravity most trainers have to be forced to fly upside down - which is as it should be.

And as Mike in DC stated: roll to recover back out of it until you get the hang of it Some trainers are better at it than others. You may need to increase your elevator throws to get enough authority to pull it off.

Rudder throws? You shouldn't need your rudder at all. Mike_DC is absolutely correct. It is the dihedral that will want to right the plane, but with a flat bottom wing, a good amount of down may be required to counteract the fact that the wing is now "Lifting Down".

The other thing he said that I REALLY want to emphasize is to be prepared to CONTINUE the roll to get right-side-up again. It's way too easy to panic and pull up elevator and find yourself heading straight down.

This is important!!!!!!!!

IF you do panic and pull up elevator, CHOP THE THROTTLE AND CONTINUE TO HOLD FULL UP!!!!!!

Then pray that you started 4 mistakes high.

The worst thing you can do is to second guess your move. You'll be picking up pieces in no time.

Oh yea... And if you DO plow it in? Put it back together and try it 5 mistakes high.

Ooops! I ment elevator throw. I knew it was one of those wiggly things on the back of the plane. All that rudder talk above got my mixed all thoughts up.

The shuttle barely flies 5 of MY mistakes high.

It was just a funny way of saying that sooner or later you're going to pull when you should have pushed. If you use a sim, and if you fly high enough, you can probably get pretty good inverted without crashing 4 planes. I've only lost one so far. I was doing a beautiful inverted low pass, and I have no idea what my fingers were thinking, because I thought I was totally in control, and the next thing I know I'm digging the engine out the dirt. It just happened so fast.

The only thing more dramatic than an inverted pass gone wrong is a knife edge pass gone wrong

Ok, some trainers will invert better than others. My "bang around" trainer would barely fly inverted until I made some quick mods. First, I'd get an experienced pilot do it with your plane, and it sounds like you did that. If your trainer flys fine inverted, then you're good to go. As other guys have said, the flat bottomed airfoil is no big deal.

My trainer requred FULL down elevator to maintain level inverted flight, and I had to be all over the ailerons to keep it there. You could forget about inverted turns and outside loops or even climbing was totally impossible. To fix this, I moved the CG back by adding 3/4oz of lead to the tail, and I really increased the elevator travel and upped the aileron rates as well. It still won't outside loop, as it doesn't have enough power, but it does most everything else.

Oh, once you get to liking inverted flight, try an inverted spin. Most trainers will not spin upright, but if it flys inverted, it will almost allways spin inverted quite well. Mine is like that, real pretty inverted spins.

The right way to do it is get at least three mistakes high before attemp to do anything, and roll or do a half loop or what ever you fill confortable with. This is where the fun part of flying starts, enjoy it.

I prefer to roll into a invert ,if your plane rolls slowly help it along with the rudder to get it inverted. Trust me it will roll faster using the rudder and Ailerons together. As other have said point nose up and then use both rudder stick and Aileron together to roll which ever way is comfortable for you and be ready to us some down stick to maintain altitude.

Practice doing a lot of quick rolls with both stick until you get use to it, THEN JUST STOP IT HALF WAY AROUND when you fell ready of course.

It seems you've gotten some good advice here, but I've always found it much easier to do a half loop to get to inverted. Once the aircraft gets close to the half way point start easing off on the elevator, then start feeding in down until it's flying level (inverted).

Trainers definitely require more twiddling of the ailerons to maintain inverted; once you "get it" with the trainer, low wing sport inverted will be a piece of cake.
Dennis-

The half-loop vs half-roll thing, as others have said, is totally personal preference. I'm a "half roll" guy myself.

IF you are starting to do a few minor aerobatics, I would suguest looking for another plane to advance to. Your trainer although being able to do minor manuvers, will limited your progression into better flying. Keep flying it and learning the hammerheads, loops (outer and inner) and other basic flying. ALso learn to fly with rudder only. That is something that will help you later on. Increase your throws on your control surfaces may help your plane be more aerobatic as well as taking out the dihedral. When you become proficent in these areas, you'll be ready for more a more advance airframe. SOme of which are not possible with the trainer design.

No need to go out and buy another plane just yet, not when that one is still in one piece......hehehe......But seriously, first , do as I did when my trainer started to get boring, tweek-her up. I maxed all of my throws on the control surface horns, as well as at the servos, even putting longer arms on servos if needed. You can also remove baffle from exhaust to give her a little more power. After you have done all this, it will be just like having a new plane, and you'll be surprised at what all it will do.