Hello,
I’ll start this thread by saying that my end game is to fly a Warbird…easier said than done from what I’m hearing. I would only classify myself as a beginner to intermediate pilot. I’ve been flying a Carl Goldberg Eagle 2 that I build myself for about a year and a half now. I’m in a local club and started off with an instructor on a buddy box. Since then I’ve successfully soloed and become very proficient at takeoffs, landings, loops and barrel rolls. Now I’m looking to transition to my first low wing plane. What in everyone’s opinion would be a good first low wing in the .60 class to learn on for the transition to a warbird? Guys in my club have given me some suggestions but there are only 15 or so of us so I wanted to pose the question to a broader audience. Kit or ARF doesn’t matter to me and I want to stick with glow. Some suggestions have been: SIG 4-STAR 64 EG ARF, Goldberg Tiger 60 Sport and SIG Astro Hog.

Thanks for the help

Tiger 60 is the best of the list, and there aren't any slackers in the list.

The price of the Phoenix Tiger ARF @ Tower is less than the kits of either size. Which means it'll save you even more (covering etc).

The Tiger was designed originally to serve as a simple aerobatics trainer so it'll probably be the cleanest flyer of your list. The Tiger2 with an OS46 on it has been an excellent combination since the day the 46FX came out. It flies like a bigger plane. Or get the bigger Tiger and it'll fly like a bigger plane than it is.

Notice the exhaust extension in the picture? It cuts down on cleanup bigtime. Install the engine sideways with a slightly longer piece of silicone hose and there is almost none.

Your goal of flying warbirds is a worthy one. However, I'd suggest you start looking right now. H9 has provided for that market for years. Try to find one of them today. Great Planes the same. Phoenix is worth a look but seems to be going the way of the other two.

Speaking of Phoenix, you might consider the military trainer: PC-9 http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXFURC&P=7 for your next plane. It is a decently clean flying model. Not a 60 of course, and not a Tiger either. But close....

Hi Perchbug,
+1 on the Tiger, I have had one that is 20 to 25 years old and is my warm up plane and I sometimes have more fun with it than my other aircraft. The day I can't repair it anymore is the day I buy a new kit(mine is the 40 size)

Calvi

If you enjoy building, the first(and only) warbird I have built is a Heinkel HE 100 from Nick Ziroli plans (available from Laser Design Services in a short kit in two sizes) and found it to be a good flyer and something a bit different.

Keep flying your trainer untill you can really fly it. I am talking figure 8 touch and goes in both directions- Landing both upwind and downwind alternating passes. Spot landings, learning to use the rudder, flying in 15-20 mph winds... Get so you can put the plane where you want it 100% of the time and make it really do what you want.
99 percent of flyers move on before they can really fly the airplane They can just get it up and down without breaking it. Dont get bogged down with what you are flying. Chances are you are not flying anywhere near the limits of the airframe you have. I would buy an arf kaos from tower hobbies for a second plane if you have truly mastered flying what you have. Cheap and flies great.
Can you do a rolling circle with your trainer? I bet it will do it. Can you make it do it?

This is an interesting question.

When I think 'warbird' what comes into my mine is something with a high wing loading prone to tipstall and often marginal on power. Often they are fitted with flaps and retracts which ideally need to be cleaned up right after take off to allow the speed to build up for the climb out. Flying one is not for cissies.

https://youtu.be/P4qqYN8bVnw The clip actually shows a tip stall which is pure pilot error, the model is not underpowered and does not look overweight, but he was too slow and in too steep a climb. You would get away with this with a trainer

So how do you learn to fly one like that without picking up the pieces on a very regular basis. I think the answer maybe a flight simulator, one that lets you customise the aircraft. If it can't see if it has a GEE BEE 2, not a warbird but a nasty airplane to fly.

Get the trainer out and practice take offs on half power with very gentle climb outs and absolutely no high alpha manouvres. Landing approaches would need to be made with extra speed and no high G high alpha turns.

As for the low wing model to fly for real, well the Astro Hog is as docile as a trainer and hard to tip stall. A Black Horse Super Air ihttp://www.hobbystores.co.uk/default...0,b:BlackHorses a little more lively and is an excellent second model. After flying the snot out of it and practicing the above stuff you could reduce the wing by one panel on each tip and learn to fly that. Two panels off each tip and it will start to behave like a typical warbird.

But lots of SIM time then some flying the real stuff perhaps with an experienced waebird flyer as a spotter to tell you when your flying would cause a typical warbird crash.

As I said this is an interesting question.

Warbirds have a bad reputation actually. Lots of the ARFs from the last decade or so actually were not overweight, or at least not so much they were particularly hard to fly. The numerous Hangar9 sixty size ones are an example. The Warhawk started the line and is probably one reason the series was so successful. The Spitfire, Hellcat, Thunderbolt, and Corsair all flew decently. Mine still do. Scale models that don't include intricate detailing aren't apt to wind up overweight.

Go with the tail dragger 4 star.
As far as flying your trainer goes stay with it until you can fly the pattern inverted. Why inverted because if can fly a trainer inverted you can fly a war bird inverted. Once good with inverted flight then it can help you recover from unintentional attitude recovery.
I agree learn the rudder lots of war birds benefit from rudder inputs

I would avoid the urge for a warbird like the plague at this point. But if you insist, you want the following for a pre-warbird trainer:

tail dragger
tapered wing
high wing loading 32 to 40 oz/ ft^2
smallest engine specified
balanced toward being slightly tail heavy
over sensitive controls
retracts

If you can fly all of that in a single airplane, then go for the warbird.

I see some good and bad advice in this thread, at least from what my experience in the hobby tells me. First, any of the planes you listed will serve nicely as an aerobatic trainer and later as a general purpose sport plane. Every single one of us who have been in this hobby have an Old Reliable around, some easy flying sport type plane that tolerates wind well and can do all the goofy maneuvers we can think of. The Ugly Stick is, IMO, the quintessential Old Reliable, but the 4 Star and Tiger II are very close behind it. You're being smart to check out a low wing tail dragger sport plane as your second bird as it will get you used to the look and handling of a low wing plane and the takeoff and landing characteristics of taildraggers.

I disagree that a person should stay on the trainer until they've reached the limits of what the airframe can do. Trainers, with their self-righting characteristics, fight the pilot who is doing maneuvers that aren't putting around in upright circles. Staying on one too long will slow your progress as a pilot and will frustrate you. I actually recommend new pilots get off of the trainer ASAP for most of the same reasons I want my daughter to get brave enough to take the training wheels off of her bike. They are great for beginners to prevent failures, but they only annoy you once you are at the point you don't need them anymore. When you get your sport plane in the air and trimmed properly, you'll likely experience an instant 50% improvement in your piloting skills due to having a plane that does what you tell it to versus a plane that actively resists doing anything but flying straight and level.

The new piece of information I'll add to this thread, alluded to a couple of times already by da rock, is that there are varying degrees of difficulty in warbird type planes. Even one warbird versus another changes the degree of difficulty. The Hangar 9 series was designed to be lightly loaded and with airfoil and tail size decisions made to make them docile and forgiving. Of the Hangar 9 planes, the P47 is the most beginner friendly. Another option is the various military trainers- the PT20, PT19, and the T28 Trojan are all a bit calmer than the others. The difficult flying warbirds are the ones built to true scale specs, with the tail surface sizes exactly right and the airfoils at least close to the original. Add in the weight of scale detailing and you get a plane that is very unforgiving of bad piloting.

For your path to flying warbirds, take your pick of the planes you mentioned, preferably one that a buddy in the club already has so he can give you setup and trimming tips. Fly it for a few months until you are comfortable with it, then get a H9 P47, P40, or Mustang. You'll do just fine.

Both of you make good points. I am looking to replace my 40 trainer after a mid air structural failure and don't know if I should get another trainer or a low wing plane. This reminds of the guy who showed up my field once with an electric warbird and virtually zero flight experience. It wasn't pretty, LOL.

Everybody I have seen, including myself, who stuck with the trainer for longer than necessary and then moved to a sport plane talked about how surprised they were how easy the sport plane is to fly compared to the trainer. That's why I recommend moving to one ASAP. If you still need the self-righting characteristics to save you from bad piloting, then stick with the trainer a bit longer. But if you are in control for the whole flight, you'll just be holding yourself back from developing as a pilot by staying on the trainer.

I agree with Jester, while holding on to the trainer for a warm up flight and when you just feel like putting around is a good idea, moving up to one of the aircraft mentioned will be a great move. Building one in a taildragger configuration adds a whole new element also. I have my Tiger set up as a free castering tail dragger and it does everything except taxi back on windy days.

Calvi