Control surface flutter on throttle up while sitting on the table!
08-18-2016, 04:36 PM
#1
Control surface flutter on throttle up while sitting on the table!
I have just finished building my first foamie, and have installed all new electronics (except for receiver) only to have severe weirdness happen while throttling up. First of all let me tell you what I am working with.
Motor: 18-11 2000kv Micro Brushless Outrunner (10g)
Receiver: GWS 4 channel micro (FM)
ESC: E-Flite 10-Amp Pro Brushless with BEC
7.4v 2cell 800mAh LiPo battery
4 x 3.6gram micro servos (1-Rud, 1-Ele, 2-Ail.)
Futaba 6ch. FM, PCM, PPM Transmitter.
So basically I have everything hooked up and mounted securely in or on the plane, I have programmed the ESC and fully balance charged the battery. Transmitter on, battery plugged in, everything okay. Once the ESC is armed and I start to throttle up, all the control surfaces start to jitter, BADLY. This happens somewhere between 25% and 40% throttle. Most the time I just throttle down and it stops only to start again when I throttle back up, but sometimes I lose control all together, the motor develops a mind of it's own revving up and down, eventually coming to a stop along with the control surfaces allowing no input at all from the transmitter until I disconnect and reconnect the battery and it starts all over again. I have tried swapping out servos, receiver and battery but nothing seems to work. All the servos are mounted securely, there is no play in the linkages, the antennae is pretty well isolated from everything else. I just don't know what else to try, I've even ordered and installed new crystals in the TX and RX both, but didn't make any difference. Please help, it's such a cute little plane and I've spent so much time and effort building it, I would really hate to end up waffle stomping it into the driveway! But that's about where I am at with it.
Motor: 18-11 2000kv Micro Brushless Outrunner (10g)
Receiver: GWS 4 channel micro (FM)
ESC: E-Flite 10-Amp Pro Brushless with BEC
7.4v 2cell 800mAh LiPo battery
4 x 3.6gram micro servos (1-Rud, 1-Ele, 2-Ail.)
Futaba 6ch. FM, PCM, PPM Transmitter.
So basically I have everything hooked up and mounted securely in or on the plane, I have programmed the ESC and fully balance charged the battery. Transmitter on, battery plugged in, everything okay. Once the ESC is armed and I start to throttle up, all the control surfaces start to jitter, BADLY. This happens somewhere between 25% and 40% throttle. Most the time I just throttle down and it stops only to start again when I throttle back up, but sometimes I lose control all together, the motor develops a mind of it's own revving up and down, eventually coming to a stop along with the control surfaces allowing no input at all from the transmitter until I disconnect and reconnect the battery and it starts all over again. I have tried swapping out servos, receiver and battery but nothing seems to work. All the servos are mounted securely, there is no play in the linkages, the antennae is pretty well isolated from everything else. I just don't know what else to try, I've even ordered and installed new crystals in the TX and RX both, but didn't make any difference. Please help, it's such a cute little plane and I've spent so much time and effort building it, I would really hate to end up waffle stomping it into the driveway! But that's about where I am at with it.
08-22-2016, 05:12 AM
#5
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I second flypapers post. A guy had the SAME EXACT problem at the field a couple weeks ago. The 72 MHz receivers just can't deal with some of the electronic noise produced by the esc, motor, or whatever else is running. He would throttle up and the surfaces would go berserk. we took the receiver out and held it far away from all of the electronic wiring and components in the airplane, and all of the problems went away. Trouble is in a small airplane how are you going to move the rx 2 ft away from everything else? The answer. 2.4ghz. 2.4 you wont have any issues
08-22-2016, 05:37 AM
#8
The previous reply is not to be mistaken as unappreciative in any way, it's just a shame my practically unused radio system in practically obsolete. Notice I said "unused" and not "new". Thanks for all the feedback gentlemen, I will let you know what happens.
08-22-2016, 06:18 AM
#9
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SKuhn68,
I used 72 MHz right through last summer with little to no problems, on larger nitro planes. If you want to make sure its the receiver, try and take the receiver out of the plane and hold it away from the model while running it up, as we did with the club members plane I was speaking about. If distancing the rx from the electronics in the plane make your problems go away, you know a couple different things. either A. if possible you need to move the receiver way out of the way of all of the other electronics, or B. you need to upgrade to the 2.4 system.
I didn't take the reply as unappreciative I totally understand your frustration!
One way or the other I'm sure you'll get this model squared away, your doing the right thing by asking for advice and working to get the issues ironed out!
I used 72 MHz right through last summer with little to no problems, on larger nitro planes. If you want to make sure its the receiver, try and take the receiver out of the plane and hold it away from the model while running it up, as we did with the club members plane I was speaking about. If distancing the rx from the electronics in the plane make your problems go away, you know a couple different things. either A. if possible you need to move the receiver way out of the way of all of the other electronics, or B. you need to upgrade to the 2.4 system.
I didn't take the reply as unappreciative I totally understand your frustration!
One way or the other I'm sure you'll get this model squared away, your doing the right thing by asking for advice and working to get the issues ironed out!
08-22-2016, 09:09 AM
#10
SKuhn68,
I used 72 MHz right through last summer with little to no problems, on larger nitro planes. If you want to make sure its the receiver, try and take the receiver out of the plane and hold it away from the model while running it up, as we did with the club members plane I was speaking about. If distancing the rx from the electronics in the plane make your problems go away, you know a couple different things. either A. if possible you need to move the receiver way out of the way of all of the other electronics, or B. you need to upgrade to the 2.4 system.
I didn't take the reply as unappreciative I totally understand your frustration!
One way or the other I'm sure you'll get this model squared away, your doing the right thing by asking for advice and working to get the issues ironed out!
I used 72 MHz right through last summer with little to no problems, on larger nitro planes. If you want to make sure its the receiver, try and take the receiver out of the plane and hold it away from the model while running it up, as we did with the club members plane I was speaking about. If distancing the rx from the electronics in the plane make your problems go away, you know a couple different things. either A. if possible you need to move the receiver way out of the way of all of the other electronics, or B. you need to upgrade to the 2.4 system.
I didn't take the reply as unappreciative I totally understand your frustration!
One way or the other I'm sure you'll get this model squared away, your doing the right thing by asking for advice and working to get the issues ironed out!
08-22-2016, 09:16 AM
#11
One other quick question about transmitters for you if you don't mind. The ones with modules? Can you choose what ever mode of communication you want simply by swapping modules? ie. FM, PCM, PPM, 2.4Ghz and so on? It would be awesome if I didn't have to swap out ALL of my old stuff automatically, but just buy a couple different modules.
08-22-2016, 10:07 AM
#12
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Skuhn68,
I have had personal experience with many brands of transmitters, from futaba, jr, expert, airtronics, hitec, spektrum, turnigy, and probably a few others. Unfortunately I have not had experience with the RadioLink products, but that looks like an awesome Tx! A friend of mine has done a significant amount of research on the radiolink products and from what I remember him saying this is the same stuff as HiTec, likely manufactured by the same people. My advice is this when it comes to radios. They all will have their own different layouts in terms of programming and functionality. If you are relatively new to the hobby, and flying with a club or even a group of fellow hobbyists, I always suggest getting what they are using, for now, as they will be able to easily assist you in setting things up and using your radio. If you are somewhat experienced with modeling and are comfortable learning how to program a "different" radio, jump right on that radiolink and let me know how she runs! Even if you are new and don't mind fiddling with things and watching youtube tutorials on setting up a radio etc etc then go for it. Otherwise, a spektrum or futaba radio is about as common as they come, and whoever you are flying with will likely be able to give you a hand with it as well.
In terms of quality? Every radio I've ever used has worked perfectly fine for me. I use 2 Turnigy radios regularly, every week. Never a glitch.
The current radios I use personally are a Turnigy i10, a Turnigy 9xr, a spektrum dx8, futaba 7cap, and a Tactic ttx850. They all work perfectly. I may be adding that Radiolink to the list because it looks so cool haha.
As far as a module unit that will take FM, PPM, PCM etc etc. I am truthfully not sure. I know my turnigy 9xr is a module radio, I have an orange module in it that works with spektrum receivers and orange receivers, I don't know if you can put other modules other than 2.4 ghz in it though.
I have had personal experience with many brands of transmitters, from futaba, jr, expert, airtronics, hitec, spektrum, turnigy, and probably a few others. Unfortunately I have not had experience with the RadioLink products, but that looks like an awesome Tx! A friend of mine has done a significant amount of research on the radiolink products and from what I remember him saying this is the same stuff as HiTec, likely manufactured by the same people. My advice is this when it comes to radios. They all will have their own different layouts in terms of programming and functionality. If you are relatively new to the hobby, and flying with a club or even a group of fellow hobbyists, I always suggest getting what they are using, for now, as they will be able to easily assist you in setting things up and using your radio. If you are somewhat experienced with modeling and are comfortable learning how to program a "different" radio, jump right on that radiolink and let me know how she runs! Even if you are new and don't mind fiddling with things and watching youtube tutorials on setting up a radio etc etc then go for it. Otherwise, a spektrum or futaba radio is about as common as they come, and whoever you are flying with will likely be able to give you a hand with it as well.
In terms of quality? Every radio I've ever used has worked perfectly fine for me. I use 2 Turnigy radios regularly, every week. Never a glitch.
The current radios I use personally are a Turnigy i10, a Turnigy 9xr, a spektrum dx8, futaba 7cap, and a Tactic ttx850. They all work perfectly. I may be adding that Radiolink to the list because it looks so cool haha.
As far as a module unit that will take FM, PPM, PCM etc etc. I am truthfully not sure. I know my turnigy 9xr is a module radio, I have an orange module in it that works with spektrum receivers and orange receivers, I don't know if you can put other modules other than 2.4 ghz in it though.
08-22-2016, 10:40 AM
#13
Hey thanks for the honest feedback on everything, I AM listening. I am not new to the hobby by any means, I was into cars and boats originally but it's been planes for 25 years with a little fiddling in the helicopter arena. I have been out or should I say "mostly dormant" for the last 10 or so years and I don't belong to a club anymore. This means that most everything I own is probably obsolete or been upgraded so many times that when I show up to a flying field I look like the guy who went to a mountain bike rally riding an old 3 speed with a basket on the front. (My sincere apologies if you own a 3 speed with a basket on the front) 
This also means that I am uninformed in the likes of synthesized receivers, FSST. FASST or what ever those things are and especially most of the new electronics. For some reason, the whole brushless motor - ESC - LiPo battery thing is proving especially difficult for me but it'll eventually click and I'll be fine. It was all nitro for me back in the day but I am very excited about the whole electric movement. Anyway, kind of got off track there. My radio of choice has always been Futaba. I have owned a few used Hitec and Jr. but I've ONLY ever bought Futaba new. Would kind of like to stay with them but I seem to be having difficulty finding a model that I like for the money I want to spend, especially when you throw in the helicopter option which I definitely want. My priorities in a radio are simple, it's got to do what I tell it when I tell it, it's got to do planes and helis, must be affordable and above all else.....IT MUST LOOK COOL! See, simple, shouldn't be so hard to fill these parameters should it?
This also means that I am uninformed in the likes of synthesized receivers, FSST. FASST or what ever those things are and especially most of the new electronics. For some reason, the whole brushless motor - ESC - LiPo battery thing is proving especially difficult for me but it'll eventually click and I'll be fine. It was all nitro for me back in the day but I am very excited about the whole electric movement. Anyway, kind of got off track there. My radio of choice has always been Futaba. I have owned a few used Hitec and Jr. but I've ONLY ever bought Futaba new. Would kind of like to stay with them but I seem to be having difficulty finding a model that I like for the money I want to spend, especially when you throw in the helicopter option which I definitely want. My priorities in a radio are simple, it's got to do what I tell it when I tell it, it's got to do planes and helis, must be affordable and above all else.....IT MUST LOOK COOL! See, simple, shouldn't be so hard to fill these parameters should it?
08-22-2016, 10:57 AM
#14
72MHz is not the problem - there are some 2.4GHz snobs out there. 72MHz has worked for longer than most people on this forum have been alive.
Try to get a cheap (like $5) UBEC to separate your motor noise source from your receiver/servo circuitry. Be careful to disconnect the power lead on the throttle connector to the speed controller. The motor current drain could be pulling down the BEC output to the receiver which a separate UBEC will fix.
Try to get a cheap (like $5) UBEC to separate your motor noise source from your receiver/servo circuitry. Be careful to disconnect the power lead on the throttle connector to the speed controller. The motor current drain could be pulling down the BEC output to the receiver which a separate UBEC will fix.
08-22-2016, 11:01 AM
#15
That's a good idea as well. For that little cash, I'll give that a shot before I spend money on a new transmitter, although I do think a new transmitter is in my near future any way. But I will try this first, thanks.
