I am looking to purchase a plane for my father for Christmas. I have had some local opinions and would like to expand upon them. The Great Planes PT 40 Mark II trainer kit with the O.S. 40 LA engine was recommended. Does anyone have knowlege of this plane, good or bad. I want my father to build the plane over the winter so he and I can fly this spring.

Thank you
dw

You'll get a ton of recommendations. Search this forum for "First kit" and you'll see what gets recommended. Personally I think the Sig LT-40 kit is the cream of the crop.

Hard to beat a Sig Kadet for a trainer. The Kadet series is what everyone else is compared to.

I would advise a different engine than the O.S. LA series. While the LA is OK, there are better engines for the same cost. Try a Thunder Tiger Pro series of the same size. You get more power, and a much better carburator (easier adjustments) for about the same price as the LA. THe Magnum XL series is another decent choice. A better engine is the O.S. FX series, but the cost is much higher.

Trainers are all about the same. They fly slow and easy. I hope he told you he wants a RC airplane, and knows what it entails. The first $400 for plane, radio, rx, servos, etc, isn't that bad. It's the next $400 in building materials, tools, field equipment, etc. that gets bad. Anyways... This month the NextStar is the best trainer.. In a couple of months it will be something else. Just get something highly recommended, not just to fly, but something recommended as a nice well built kit/arf/rtf plane that goes together like it should. As for the engine. The LA40 isn't a powerhouse to put it mildly. You might want to try something like an EVO 46 TPS, or even the straight EVO 46. That way he can use it in something later on if he does catch the bug. It's really cool you getting him an airplane as a gift! - Joe

JoeLansing has that one right. Everyone will tell you that it costs $300-400 to get started. All that gets you is a kit, engine, covering and radio. You still need AMA for insurance, some tools, a building board, a few adhesives, a field box, some field gear, etc. It comes to $700-800 by the time you've got everything you need for a .40 size trainer.

Now, most of those things you won't have to purchase again with the next kit. The field gear is good for a long time and the radio and engine can be moved to the next plane.

I just don't think we do anyone any favors by minimizing the costs. It seriously ticked me off when I was told that it cost such and such amount to get started and then I got nickeled and dimed to double the amount I was told by the time my first plane flew the first time.

It is not necessarily so that one will have to spend so much money to get started. You can buy complete ARF outfits for around $290.00, nicad glow igniters for around $15.00, or even a flashlight battery and a couple of alligator clips. You can buy squeeze bottles for a couple of bucks or other creative ways to fill fuel tanks. Use a piece of garden hose as a chicken stick to use as a way to start engines. I have several used trainers for sale that I would let go at around $150.00, ready to fly. I will even let my customers fly the trainer before they bought it, just to show that it's in good flying shape. I'm sure there are others who will do the same.

nascarjoe

Thank you nascarjoe, My thoughts were to purchase the airplane and engine for my father and then a giftcertificate to help with the extras needed.
I just really need to decide between Gas or Electric, ARF or a full trainer kit in which he would build. I am leaning towards the building to keep him busy over the winter.
I have been told the Great Planes PT 40 Mark II trainier is a good first airplane to get started on. From tower hobbies it comes as a combo with an o.s. 40 l.a. engine.

What are your thoughts?

Thank you
Darren

Darren,
The GP PT 40 is about a good a trainer as anything, but O.S. 40 LA engine can be marginal on power, but adequate. I am doing something a bit different than most, if not all hobby shops, which is to offer to let anyone fly just about any type of RC aircraft BEFORE they buy, even if they tell me before hand that they have no intention of buying anything. At least they will pass on their experience to those who may want to get into the hobby or if they can already fly at least a trainer, they can take a few minutes flight time on a more advanced type of airplane that I have ready to fly. So far, this has worked out very well for selling RC aircraft.

nascarjoe

I'll second what the others have said:

PT-40 Good

LA 40 Marginal at best.

Get one of these instead:

http://horizon.hobbyshopnow.com/prod...p?prod=EVOE100

or

http://www.rcmodels.com/rc-ttr-9141.html

PT40 is a great plane to learn to build and fly,the la 40 will do the job,but I would switch to a different engine,the la series are very user friendly,not much power and easy to break on hard landing.

No it's not, but it typically does. The costs I'm talking about are for a .40 size trainer and everything that most people end up buying. Often the person's instructor helps out with things like electric starters and ni-starters until the student buys their own. But my point is that by the time the student does have all their own equipment and haven't jury-rigged their flight box with garden hose and the like, it comes to way more than that $300-$400 that everyone talks about. It's just not true unless they get a park flyer or buy all their equipment used.

HI 1PACKAGEMAN! I don't think you can beat a 2 channel glider powered with a WASP .061 for simplicity, and the cheapest way to get started. Some thing in the 6ft span range takes 2 rolls of cheap TOWERCOTE covering and a 2 oz bottle of CA glue to throw together. Mounting the engine on a power pod above the wing keeps the engine out of harms' way. The GOLDBERG GENTLE LADY has taught many guys how to fly.

Here's a partial list of what I bought to build and fly an ARF. I still need more...
It would've been more if it had been a kit I'm sure, and this isn't counting RX, servos, radio, etc. I'm not counting the Black & Decker Wizard, scroll saw or that kinda stuff.

2 bottles each of super thin and gap filling ca
15 and 30 min epoxy & things to mix and apply it
ca debonder
roll of ultracoat
coating Iron ( should get a heat gun also!)
Olfa hobby knife and extra blades
field box with power panel & battery
chicken stick
4 way wrench
electric starter
fuel
after run oil
glo starter
spare glow plugs
spare props
new aluminum spinner to replace the plastic TPS one I ate up with the starter
Voltwatch (not needed, but makes the instructor very happy!
triangle stock, aircraft plywood
servo extensions
T-pins
tank & rx packing foam rubber stuff
straight edge

Joe,

thank you for the valuable information. After reading your list, I may be re-thinking the trainer kit and look to an ARF. My goal was to let my father build it over the winter. How long have you been working on your ARF?, and which one did you purchase. I am looking at the GP PT 40.

Dw

Joe - that is an excellent list. I've been meaning to put something like that together for my web site with prices so people can see what the real deal is. I just haven't gotten to it yet, but thanks for showing the reality of it.

combatpigg,

thank you for your input, I just looked at the Gentle Lady on towerhobbies.com, it sells for 99.00 ARF, it say "Kit can be powered with optional Cox .049 engine."

You think this is the way to go?

dw

To 1packageman : That list is a merged list of sorts. It's the list of what I bought to fly my RTF Extra Easy 2 trainer, and the stuff I had to buy to build the ARF Ultra Stick 40 I'm working on now. I could've split it into 2 lists, one of flying acessories, and one of building acessories, but I didn't since in your dad's case he'll need both. - Joe

Caffeenman:
Maybe that was an excellent list, but I forgot AMA and club dues on it. Lets not forget some of the most important things. I'm only so good at coughing up such a list because I bought all that stuff in the last 6 weeks or so. - Joe

I have built and flown the PT 40. Please build it with the A-style wing dihedral or less. This plane does not do good with the option B dihedral. The Thunder Tiger 46 is a great engine for the money and is enough engine to put into something else later on. The nextstar looks like an extremely good package because you get the plane, engine, radio, autopilot and a version of RealFlight simulator to practice on. This would give that urge to go out now a little rest, provided he has a computer. I have heard nothing but good things about the Sig LT-40, but others loved the PT 40 as well. A picture of mine is in my avatar. It flies great and got me off the ground. I am putting skis on it soon. Good Luck and welocme to the hobby.

Hey, I almost forgot. If you get to a local club or LHS, they will probably have some good used gear that will save you a ton of money. There is no better place on the web than here to find great deals. I got a 40 size Avistar trainer ARF that needed the wing recovered for $30.00. I picked up a complete RTF set-up with 6 channel radio and gear, new unused Magnum 40 engine starter and plane for $80.00, it also needed re-covered. Good Luck!

Thank you for the input. When you built the GP PT 40 how long did it take to build? My father has no experience in building or flying as he is nearing retirement I thought this would be a great hobby to start in. We are looking to buy the Trainer kit and the engine that TowerHobbies is putting with the plane is a O.S. 40 LA. The whole deal is $132.00 minus extras (radio and such)
Do you recommend Electric or Gas, as my brother is very focused on the electric and I want to go with the gas powered as the flying club in Omaha has instructors who have leaned towards the gas side and they would work with my father to get him started.

Thank you
dw

My advice (and remember I'm a newbie also!) is to just get him a nice RTF thing and basic field gear. Then he won't have to wait till spring to fly. And if he does like it, it will keep him busy till spring anyways. He'll buy another plane, he'll get to be buds with all the old farts down at the field, on and on. Have you been to his local field? He'll want the same type radios as his instructors to use a buddy box is just one of the reasons to know them. Put a bow on one of the old geezer instructors down there and have him show up Xmas morning with the plane... - Joe

Packageman
On building the PT 40, it took me one month of nights and some weekend time. I used to be a carpenter but having woodshop in school would have sufficed. The first key to building is to have a perfectly flat building surface. For me, this was a vanity cabinet with two scrap pieces of plywood on it. The other money saving tip was to go and buy an acoustical ceiling tile at Home Depot, Lowes or such to put on top of the building surfaces. T-pins go into it with ease and it works great. Cover the plans with wax paper or similar to keep glue from adhering everything in site. I started out with an X-acto knife and saw with plenty of blades, 1 bottle of thin CA, 1 bottle of medium CA, 5 minute epoxy, 30 minute epoxy, 1 bag of T-pins, sanding block with sandpaper. I think it was like $30.00 dollars. I wish I had known about using building weights, go to a local metal shop and they are usually happy to give you scrap metal pieces used to hold down the components to the flat surface while gluing. You will need to get covering, fuel tank, wheels and covering tools later but for now, that is what you will need. I started building in May and started flying in June. The knowledge of fellow club members in building is very helpful, but RCU is just as helpful. The PT 40's manual is well versed and is great for beginners. The one thing it was missing is telling you what a former was or a stab or a rib. When it tells you to get these in the instructions and the wood doesn't say it on there, you might be looking a little while to figure it out. Also, if you know anybody that does srapbooking, they have great tools for cutting monokote.

Well, here is the deal. You need to decide on which is more available in your area gas vs. electric. Nothing will upset you more than waiting for parts to ship to you. The costs will be about the same with gas vs. electric when starting out. Today's electric equipment is just as good as gas, and if someone doesn't beilieve it, check out Hacker batteries with its sponsored pilot, Jason Shullman. I went with gas because of the same reason you have, most of the club had it. I like it but was mislead at first into people telling me that electrics aren't as powerful, they don't sound cool and other goofy phrases. I think if I had it to do over I might have went with electrics. You will save on having to clean up glow fuel. Glow fuel costs an average of $15.00 a gallon, and when you are getting more experience, this is a high cost. Electrics have issues too, but since I went with gas, I do not know those issues.

If you have a local hobby store (LHS) locally, I would go there first. I have a guy here in PA that beats Tower's prices and gives you an extreme deal on package deals. I do not know how they run, but Enya provides a guarantee on thier motors that even if you crash them, send them in and they will fix them free. I once got a $109.00 ARF and a $179.00 radio for $260, because I bought them together. The small un-franchised guy is the best to go to and will be there when you have questions on building.
Good Luck and let your dad know we are here to provide help.

runover1,

Thank you for the detailed e mail. Your information is very helpful in making my choice. You may be right, I will go to theLHS and see about matching prices or putting together a bundled solution.

Once again;
Thank you
dw