'father of flight'
12-29-2003, 06:48 PM
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'father of flight'
Just to start a fight here for sure, see the link below.
Nilo
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3320713.stm
Nilo
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3320713.stm
12-29-2003, 07:12 PM
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RE: 'father of flight'
There is a dispute here!
from CNN:
"It was on November 12, 1906, when Santos-Dumont flew a kite-like contraption with boxy wings called the 14-Bis some 722 feet (220 meters) on the outskirts of Paris. It being the first public flight in the world, he was hailed as the inventor of the airplane all over Europe.
It was only later that the secretive Orville and Wilbur Wright proved they had beaten Santos-Dumont at Kitty Hawk, North Carolina, three years earlier on December 17.
But to bring up the Wright brothers with a Brazilian is bound to elicit an avalanche of arguments -- some more reasonable than others -- as to why their compatriot's flight didn't count.
"It's one of the biggest frauds in history," scoffs Wagner Diogo, a taxi driver in Rio de Janeiro, of the Wrights' inaugural flight. "No one saw it, and they used a catapult to launch" the airplane.
Did it count?
Apparently, the debate comes down to how you define the first flight of an airplane.
Henrique Lins de Barros, a Brazilian physicist and Santos-Dumont expert, argues that the Wright brothers' flight did not fulfill the conditions that had been set up at the time to distinguish a true flight from a prolonged hop.
But Santos-Dumont's flight did meet the criteria, which in essence meant he took off unassisted, publicly flew a predetermined length in front of experts and then landed safely.
"If we understand what the criteria were at the end of the 19th century, the Wright brothers simply do not fill any of the prerequisites," says Lins de Barros.
Brazilians also claim that the Wrights launched their Flyer in 1903 with a catapult or at an incline, thereby disqualifying it from being a true airplane because it did not take off on its own.
Even Santos-Dumont experts like Lins de Barros concede this is wrong. But he says that the strong, steady winds at Kitty Hawk were crucial for the Flyer's take-off, disqualifying the flight because there was no proof it could lift off on its own.
Peter Jakab, chairman of the aeronautics division at the National Air and Space Museum in Washington and a Wright brothers expert, says such claims are preposterous.
By the time Santos-Dumont got around to his maiden flight the Wright brothers had already flown numerous times, including one in which they flew 24 miles (39 km) in 40 minutes.
"Even in 1903 the airplane sustained itself in the air for nearly a minute. If it's not sustaining itself under its own power it's not going to stay up that long," Jakab says.
Even in France -- never a country too eager to agree with the U.S. point of view -- the Wrights are considered to have flown before Santos-Dumont, says Claude Carlier, the director of the French Center for the History of Aeronautics and Space.
"There's a strong nationalist issue at play here," says Marcos Villares, Santos-Dumont's great grandnephew. "Flight was a very important step in human history, in the history of technology. Every country wants to claim priority."
Nilo
from CNN:
"It was on November 12, 1906, when Santos-Dumont flew a kite-like contraption with boxy wings called the 14-Bis some 722 feet (220 meters) on the outskirts of Paris. It being the first public flight in the world, he was hailed as the inventor of the airplane all over Europe.
It was only later that the secretive Orville and Wilbur Wright proved they had beaten Santos-Dumont at Kitty Hawk, North Carolina, three years earlier on December 17.
But to bring up the Wright brothers with a Brazilian is bound to elicit an avalanche of arguments -- some more reasonable than others -- as to why their compatriot's flight didn't count.
"It's one of the biggest frauds in history," scoffs Wagner Diogo, a taxi driver in Rio de Janeiro, of the Wrights' inaugural flight. "No one saw it, and they used a catapult to launch" the airplane.
Did it count?
Apparently, the debate comes down to how you define the first flight of an airplane.
Henrique Lins de Barros, a Brazilian physicist and Santos-Dumont expert, argues that the Wright brothers' flight did not fulfill the conditions that had been set up at the time to distinguish a true flight from a prolonged hop.
But Santos-Dumont's flight did meet the criteria, which in essence meant he took off unassisted, publicly flew a predetermined length in front of experts and then landed safely.
"If we understand what the criteria were at the end of the 19th century, the Wright brothers simply do not fill any of the prerequisites," says Lins de Barros.
Brazilians also claim that the Wrights launched their Flyer in 1903 with a catapult or at an incline, thereby disqualifying it from being a true airplane because it did not take off on its own.
Even Santos-Dumont experts like Lins de Barros concede this is wrong. But he says that the strong, steady winds at Kitty Hawk were crucial for the Flyer's take-off, disqualifying the flight because there was no proof it could lift off on its own.
Peter Jakab, chairman of the aeronautics division at the National Air and Space Museum in Washington and a Wright brothers expert, says such claims are preposterous.
By the time Santos-Dumont got around to his maiden flight the Wright brothers had already flown numerous times, including one in which they flew 24 miles (39 km) in 40 minutes.
"Even in 1903 the airplane sustained itself in the air for nearly a minute. If it's not sustaining itself under its own power it's not going to stay up that long," Jakab says.
Even in France -- never a country too eager to agree with the U.S. point of view -- the Wrights are considered to have flown before Santos-Dumont, says Claude Carlier, the director of the French Center for the History of Aeronautics and Space.
"There's a strong nationalist issue at play here," says Marcos Villares, Santos-Dumont's great grandnephew. "Flight was a very important step in human history, in the history of technology. Every country wants to claim priority."
Nilo
12-29-2003, 07:20 PM
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RE: 'father of flight'
i don't care who said what who said we did it first look at some books thats speak the truth it will tell you the wright bros did it first lins de barro need to learn how to get his finger out of his be for he goes telling what he thought should happen that did not in the first place
WE DID IT WE DID IT WE DID IT ALL OTHERS THAT SAY THEY DID ARE JUST INSAINE OF THE BRAIN
WE DID IT WE DID IT WE DID IT ALL OTHERS THAT SAY THEY DID ARE JUST INSAINE OF THE BRAIN
12-29-2003, 07:37 PM
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RE: 'father of flight'
I knew it would happen!Ok, all right, the Wright brothers did it, with some wind and a catapult to launch and just they saw it, no witness. That's fare.
I'm not here trying to bring the glory to Santos Dumont. He never wanted it anyway and I don't care who did it.
Just don't be so arrogant with new ideas about something you have no clue.
Nilo
12-29-2003, 08:35 PM
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RE: 'father of flight'
OH I'M SURE I HAVE MORE OF A CLUE THAN YOU DO IT'S WORLD WIDE KNOW THAT THE WRIGHT BROTHERS DID IT FIRST READ A BOOK CAN YOU OR WATCH THE HISTORY CHANNEL SOMETIME WELL YOU MUST BE TRYING TO BRING IT SOMEWERE OR YOU WOULD NOT HAVE POSTED THIS IN THE FIRST PLACE WELL THEY HAD A ENGINE TO WHATS YOUR PROBLEM WITH US DOING IT FIRST YOU DIDN'T DO IT SO DON'T WORRY WHO DID IT FIRST WHITCH WAS THE USA I'M NOT ALL FOR USA AT EVERYTHING I'M GERMAN TO BEGIN WITH DO YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT WHEN I GO TO MY DADS I WILL GET SOME BOOKS FOR YOU TO READ THEY ARE VERY EASY FOR PEOPLE LIKE YOU TO READ ITS NO NEW IDEA JUST PEOPLE LIKE YOU TRYING TO MAKE PEOPLE BELEAVE STUFF THAT NEVER HAPPEND SO WINK WINK GET A LIFE THATS WORTH SOMETHING TO SOMEBODY BUDDY
IT'S WORLD WIDE KNOW THAT THE WRIGHT BROTHERS DID IT FIRST READ A BOOK CAN YOU OR WATCH THE HISTORY CHANNEL SOMETIME WELL YOU MUST BE TRYING TO BRING IT SOMEWERE OR YOU WOULD NOT HAVE POSTED THIS IN THE FIRST PLACE WELL THEY HAD A ENGINE TO WHATS YOUR PROBLEM WITH US DOING IT FIRST YOU DIDN'T DO IT SO DON'T WORRY WHO DID IT FIRST WHITCH WAS THE USA I'M NOT ALL FOR USA AT EVERYTHING I'M GERMAN TO BEGIN WITH DO YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH THAT WHEN I GO TO MY DADS I WILL GET SOME BOOKS FOR YOU TO READ THEY ARE VERY EASY FOR PEOPLE LIKE YOU TO READ ITS NO NEW IDEA JUST PEOPLE LIKE YOU TRYING TO MAKE PEOPLE BELEAVE STUFF THAT NEVER HAPPEND SO WINK WINK GET A LIFE THATS WORTH SOMETHING TO SOMEBODY BUDDY
12-29-2003, 08:42 PM
#7
RE: 'father of flight'
Oh, for heaven's sake, a lot of people flew, or sailed, before the Wrights, someone in Connecticut, Texas, Russia, Montgomery in California. Those were not significant. The real counter, in my opinion, was when Wilbur Wright took the Flyer A, B, one of those, and went to France. This was the first practical airplane that had good all-around comtrol. He assembled it flew it around, then started taking people for rides. The French were flabbergasted. This was CONTROLLED flight. No one else had ever done that. Even the French admitted that. They were still making secretive "flights," little hops, actually, like Santos-Dumont, and the Wrights were giving rides. You know, "Hop on, we'll go see Paris from the air. Maybe we'll see some of those other people who think they can fly. Wave as we circle and go by."
When they squawked about his launcher, he just put wheels on it and did it all again. No one, anywhere in the world had even flown from city to city, had gives many rides, even to nobility. The rest were experiments, this was an airplane.
By the way, Santos-Dumont never could control his machine, neither could Langly. If you can't steer, you're a free flight, and that's a heck of a lot different from taking off, flying where you want to go, then flying back and landing where you started. The Wrights knew what they were doing. The rest were a bunch of also-rans and pretenders.
When they squawked about his launcher, he just put wheels on it and did it all again. No one, anywhere in the world had even flown from city to city, had gives many rides, even to nobility. The rest were experiments, this was an airplane.
By the way, Santos-Dumont never could control his machine, neither could Langly. If you can't steer, you're a free flight, and that's a heck of a lot different from taking off, flying where you want to go, then flying back and landing where you started. The Wrights knew what they were doing. The rest were a bunch of also-rans and pretenders.
12-29-2003, 09:18 PM
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RE: 'father of flight'
There are some kids from German that need to learn to respect people, in first place, then come to talk.
Like I said, It was my intention to rise this discution, at least people start knowing things.
I'm sure the Wright Brothers have the right for many glories, like your said giving rides, flying from city to city, whatever.
I'm just concluding what I always knew. People still belive in Santa Claus and that Elvis is alive and just because they want to, not because they have proof of anything, like a religious thing.
It could even be correct to say the the Wright brothers flew first, who knows, there were no witness!
By the way, the inventor of the ailerons is Santos Dumont, so I guess he knew pretty much how to control an airplane. He was the first to use it. People, please do some research first!
Here in WA, in the Museum of Flight, there is a nice section about Santos Dumont, next to the Wright brothers. Regardless who flew first, both deserve recognition.
Nilo
Nilo
Like I said, It was my intention to rise this discution, at least people start knowing things.
I'm sure the Wright Brothers have the right for many glories, like your said giving rides, flying from city to city, whatever.
I'm just concluding what I always knew. People still belive in Santa Claus and that Elvis is alive and just because they want to, not because they have proof of anything, like a religious thing.
It could even be correct to say the the Wright brothers flew first, who knows, there were no witness!
By the way, the inventor of the ailerons is Santos Dumont, so I guess he knew pretty much how to control an airplane. He was the first to use it. People, please do some research first!
Here in WA, in the Museum of Flight, there is a nice section about Santos Dumont, next to the Wright brothers. Regardless who flew first, both deserve recognition.
Nilo
Nilo
12-29-2003, 09:22 PM
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RE: 'father of flight'
THATS WHAT I WAS TRYING TO SAY YOU HAD BETTER WORDS. A GUY IN THE 1790'S HAD A HELICOPTOR IT NEVER FLEW. THEY HAD THE FIRST REAL AIRPLANE. I'M SURE A KID HAD A GLIDER BEFORE ANYBODY KNEW THEY WANTED TO FLY. HE OR SHE MITE HAVE NOT EVEN KNOWN WHAT HE HAD. JUST A TOY TO THAT HE OR SHE COULD THROW OFF A HILL OR SOMETHING TO HAVE FUN WITH.
BIG DEAL DON'T CARE [DON'T GIVE A %$#@ WITH MY WINDOWS DOWN AND MY SYSTEM UP ] M&M RULES
YO I SAVE MY RESPECT FOR PEOPLE THAT DESERVE IT YOU DON'T I'M FROM GERMANY NOT GERMAN
BIG DEAL DON'T CARE [DON'T GIVE A %$#@ WITH MY WINDOWS DOWN AND MY SYSTEM UP ] M&M RULES
YO I SAVE MY RESPECT FOR PEOPLE THAT DESERVE IT YOU DON'T I'M FROM GERMANY NOT GERMAN
12-29-2003, 09:34 PM
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RE: 'father of flight'
NO ITS A MUSIC DUDE DON'T GUSSE YOU HAVE HERD OF HIM HE DOS RAD CRAP THATS WHAT THE CONTRY MUSIC PEOPLE CALL IT LIKE THE SONG SLIM SHADY WILL THE REAL SLIM SHADY PLEASE STAND UP I LIKE THAT KIND OF MUSIC I'M 19 SO THATS MY LIFE WHEN I RIDE OR FLY AKE ME FASTER OR SMOOTHER
12-29-2003, 09:45 PM
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RE: 'father of flight'
NO ITS A MUSIC DUDE DON'T GUSSE YOU HAVE HERD OF HIM HE DOS RAD CRAP THATS WHAT THE CONTRY MUSIC PEOPLE CALL IT LIKE THE SONG SLIM SHADY WILL THE REAL SLIM SHADY PLEASE STAND UP I LIKE THAT KIND OF MUSIC I'M 19 SO THATS MY LIFE WHEN I RIDE OR FLY AKE ME FASTER OR SMOOTHER "." and "," usually helps.
It's located at the right side of the letter "M", like in "M&M"
Nilo
It's located at the right side of the letter "M", like in "M&M"
Nilo
07-08-2005, 12:33 PM
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RE: 'father of flight'
The aledged Wright Brothers plane could not fly, as the world could verify when of the aledged celebration of the Centenial (it will be 100 years in 2006!) of Flight, an exact replica of their machine barely hopped into a poddle of mud. The president was smart enough to leave before the frustrated event, probably in order to avoid embarasment. No need to say more.
No need to say more.
07-08-2005, 01:09 PM
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RE: 'father of flight'
A highly uninformed response as the replica had succseffully made several flights (documented by Discovery Channel) before they tried to push the poor waterlogged replica into the air just to meet the exact date.[
]
]
07-08-2005, 01:34 PM
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RE: 'father of flight'
There have been plenty of experiments with flight though. Hot air balloons and derigibles already existed and had for some time. Many many glider experiments, and some truly inventive things which were just considered toys. These being Chinese Kites, and a toy that resembled a helicopter. Basically being a spinning top with an airfoil, it would fly in the air for a few moments. In fact, the Wright Brothers even did some experiments with them, and one is even pictured with Jesus!
However, being a US citizen, nobody can ever change my mind that the Wright Brothers flew first.
However, being a US citizen, nobody can ever change my mind that the Wright Brothers flew first.
07-08-2005, 02:23 PM
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RE: 'father of flight'
There is quit a bit of data saying that Augustaf Whitehead made several engine powered flight with complete control landing back at the takeoff point two years before the Wright Brothers did their bit at Kitty Hawk. Also a preacher in Texas made some not so successful powered flights at about the same time. Also there are records of an Austrailian successfully doing powered flight but gave up further experiments after a near fatal crash into a hedge row. What was most amazing about the Whithead flight is the air cooled engine he developed to get adequate power to weight ratio to get his contraption airborne .
07-08-2005, 02:57 PM
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RE: 'father of flight'
I think that everyone can agree that the race was very close.
But what is flight ? Do we mean controlled flight ? Powered flight ? Controlled and powered flight ?
The Wrights had flown gliders down the dunes of Kitty Hawk in previous seasons. Does that Count ?
And thier fisrt powered flight was witnessed. The entire crew from the nearby life boat station was there to help them. And then , of course, there is that famous photograph.
There is no doubt that other very bright and tallented men around the world were also experimenting with flight . But no one at all has the decumentation that the Wrights have. There mathematical calculations were brilliant and they acheived an effeciency in proppeller design that wasn't matched for 70 years.
The proof is in the documentation. And the Wrights had a boat load of documentation.
I don't see what difference it makes who actually flew first and how much power or control they had. The patends that the Wrights held on the airplane turned out to be basicly worthless anyway. And thier particular design was over shadowed by those of Glen Curtiss almost immediatly.
If anyone deserves more credit for manned fight it would be Glen Curtiss. His experience at building motorcycles made him the ideal man to develope the engines with enough power for real flight. Meanwhile the Wrights did not advance their planes enough. They were to busy fighting Curtiss and others in court and insisting they owned the patend on ALL airplanes. They Lost !
Everyone took a step. Everyone stood on the shoulders of someone before them.....everyone, even the Wrights. But Curtiss took a larger step than the Wrights, I believe much larger. The courts agreed.
But what is flight ? Do we mean controlled flight ? Powered flight ? Controlled and powered flight ?
The Wrights had flown gliders down the dunes of Kitty Hawk in previous seasons. Does that Count ?
And thier fisrt powered flight was witnessed. The entire crew from the nearby life boat station was there to help them. And then , of course, there is that famous photograph.
There is no doubt that other very bright and tallented men around the world were also experimenting with flight . But no one at all has the decumentation that the Wrights have. There mathematical calculations were brilliant and they acheived an effeciency in proppeller design that wasn't matched for 70 years.
The proof is in the documentation. And the Wrights had a boat load of documentation.
I don't see what difference it makes who actually flew first and how much power or control they had. The patends that the Wrights held on the airplane turned out to be basicly worthless anyway. And thier particular design was over shadowed by those of Glen Curtiss almost immediatly.
If anyone deserves more credit for manned fight it would be Glen Curtiss. His experience at building motorcycles made him the ideal man to develope the engines with enough power for real flight. Meanwhile the Wrights did not advance their planes enough. They were to busy fighting Curtiss and others in court and insisting they owned the patend on ALL airplanes. They Lost !
Everyone took a step. Everyone stood on the shoulders of someone before them.....everyone, even the Wrights. But Curtiss took a larger step than the Wrights, I believe much larger. The courts agreed.
07-08-2005, 05:14 PM
#21
RE: 'father of flight'
The reason Scott is simply because people are still interested. Absolutely nothing wrong with that and historical debate is not a bad thing lest we forget, that is a bad thing.
For those who would use the Wrights catapult launch system as a disqualifier in any 'Who's First' or 'What is Flight' debate, then they would be completely wrong. You see if you do the research the catapult was never used at Kitty Hawk. It was only used much later in the late 1904 and 1905 developments at Huffman prarie.
John
For those who would use the Wrights catapult launch system as a disqualifier in any 'Who's First' or 'What is Flight' debate, then they would be completely wrong. You see if you do the research the catapult was never used at Kitty Hawk. It was only used much later in the late 1904 and 1905 developments at Huffman prarie.
John
07-08-2005, 06:48 PM
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RE: 'father of flight'
Rodney - The "Australian" you refer to was not an aussie but a New Zealander called Richard Pearce (damn aussies have claimed enough kiwis as thier own, although they are welcome to Russell Crowe ). There are various claims that he flew before the Wrights but never sought any sort of publicity and the story of him flying first is based on eye witness accounts that can't be verified. Pearce himself had also been quoted as saying that he did not fly with his aircraft. It was made from bamboo and was a high wing monoplane with a vertical fin. It had alierons as opposed to wing warping that the Wright brothers used. The engine was a horizontal twin cyclinder made from irrigation piping. I am not totally convinced that he did fly before the Wrights but he certainly did build an aeroplane that had features that didn't become common place till some time later. He also tried to build a STOL plane many years later, this had a tilting engine similar to the Osprey.
Cheers
Vaughan
). There are various claims that he flew before the Wrights but never sought any sort of publicity and the story of him flying first is based on eye witness accounts that can't be verified. Pearce himself had also been quoted as saying that he did not fly with his aircraft. It was made from bamboo and was a high wing monoplane with a vertical fin. It had alierons as opposed to wing warping that the Wright brothers used. The engine was a horizontal twin cyclinder made from irrigation piping. I am not totally convinced that he did fly before the Wrights but he certainly did build an aeroplane that had features that didn't become common place till some time later. He also tried to build a STOL plane many years later, this had a tilting engine similar to the Osprey. Cheers
Vaughan
07-12-2005, 10:24 PM
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RE: 'father of flight'
actually, some of you dont have your facts straight. THERE WERE WITNESSES; the crew from the Kill Devil lighthouse . who do you think snapped the famous picture?
remember also, they conducted over 1,000( thats ONE THOUSAND) successful , controled glides with their design off Kill Devil hill. (modified when the previous "experts" were proved to be using wrong data tables) control was the key, engine power was added AFTER the design was "perfected"
the reason the Wrights were disbelieved was due to failure to take off at Huffman Prarrie the following year
( density altitude) and that the brothers kept certain things very secret because the wished to protect their patents which had not yet been awarded.in an ironic way this impeded development because without the knowlege ( obtained by the brothers due to hard work & meticulious documented research) no one else could verify their claims.the idea that it is bogus due to their using a catapult is irrelevant. langley tried to use one also. they did not wish to use wheels & ground /rail drag needed to be overcome( remember they (and everyone else had engines of very limited power). besides, they sustained flight & later proved to be very skilled at what they were doing. the unlicensed "copies " of the Wrights airplanes flew very poorly , if at all. there have been MANY contenders for the title"first to fly". virtually all of them were FAR less knowlegable or prepared than the Wrights. by the way, the Russians have a man they claim was the first to fly too .
remember also, they conducted over 1,000( thats ONE THOUSAND) successful , controled glides with their design off Kill Devil hill. (modified when the previous "experts" were proved to be using wrong data tables) control was the key, engine power was added AFTER the design was "perfected"
the reason the Wrights were disbelieved was due to failure to take off at Huffman Prarrie the following year
( density altitude) and that the brothers kept certain things very secret because the wished to protect their patents which had not yet been awarded.in an ironic way this impeded development because without the knowlege ( obtained by the brothers due to hard work & meticulious documented research) no one else could verify their claims.the idea that it is bogus due to their using a catapult is irrelevant. langley tried to use one also. they did not wish to use wheels & ground /rail drag needed to be overcome( remember they (and everyone else had engines of very limited power). besides, they sustained flight & later proved to be very skilled at what they were doing. the unlicensed "copies " of the Wrights airplanes flew very poorly , if at all. there have been MANY contenders for the title"first to fly". virtually all of them were FAR less knowlegable or prepared than the Wrights. by the way, the Russians have a man they claim was the first to fly too .
07-12-2005, 10:26 PM
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RE: 'father of flight'
actually, some of you dont have your facts straight. THERE WERE WITNESSES; the crew from the Kill Devil lighthouse . who do you think snapped the famous picture?
remember also, they conducted over 1,000( thats ONE THOUSAND) successful , controled glides with their design off Kill Devil hill. (modified when the previous "experts" were proved to be using wrong data tables) control was the key, engine power was added AFTER the design was "perfected"
the reason the Wrights were disbelieved was due to failure to take off at Huffman Prarrie the following year
( density altitude) and that the brothers kept certain things very secret because the wished to protect their patents which had not yet been awarded.in an ironic way this impeded development because without the knowlege ( obtained by the brothers due to hard work & meticulious documented research) no one else could verify their claims.the idea that it is bogus due to their using a catapult is irrelevant. langley tried to use one also. they did not wish to use wheels & ground /rail drag needed to be overcome( remember they (and everyone else had engines of very limited power). besides, they sustained flight & later proved to be very skilled at what they were doing. the unlicensed "copies " of the Wrights airplanes flew very poorly , if at all. there have been MANY contenders for the title"first to fly". virtually all of them were FAR less knowlegable or prepared than the Wrights. by the way, the Russians have a man they claim was the first to fly too .
remember also, they conducted over 1,000( thats ONE THOUSAND) successful , controled glides with their design off Kill Devil hill. (modified when the previous "experts" were proved to be using wrong data tables) control was the key, engine power was added AFTER the design was "perfected"
the reason the Wrights were disbelieved was due to failure to take off at Huffman Prarrie the following year
( density altitude) and that the brothers kept certain things very secret because the wished to protect their patents which had not yet been awarded.in an ironic way this impeded development because without the knowlege ( obtained by the brothers due to hard work & meticulious documented research) no one else could verify their claims.the idea that it is bogus due to their using a catapult is irrelevant. langley tried to use one also. they did not wish to use wheels & ground /rail drag needed to be overcome( remember they (and everyone else had engines of very limited power). besides, they sustained flight & later proved to be very skilled at what they were doing. the unlicensed "copies " of the Wrights airplanes flew very poorly , if at all. there have been MANY contenders for the title"first to fly". virtually all of them were FAR less knowlegable or prepared than the Wrights. by the way, the Russians have a man they claim was the first to fly too .
