pauluk2w

My Feedback: (7)

i have tried to find an instructor but there is none in my area. i have just bought and assembled an xtra easy .40 and want to start to fly as soon as possible. can anyone give me advice on the basics on flying and take offs and landing. also do you think it is possible to learn without the use of an instructor

FHHuber

Maybe... probably you will end up breaking a lot of stuff if you try to learn without an instructor. Generally those who try, and then break the model end up giving up... and then I find thier radio and engine for sale cheap at garage sales.

Its a good way for me (and other experienced modelers) to get stuff cheap.... so If you want to try teaching yourself go ahead.

mburian02

My Feedback: (2)

i am in the process of learning my self and i will tell you that every experienced pilot on here will tell you to find an instructor, and you say you can't find one in your area but i can tell you that i had the same problem and i can almost promise you that if you just ask around in your area you will find someone that will help you, like i said i couldn't find anyone either but everyone on here pushed me and pushed me into not flying without one for several different reasons, and after flying the simulator i just bought i now understand what they were talking about...number 1 is that it isn't safe for you or anyone around you 2. is that it won't be cheap considering you will be buying a new plane or paying to get yours repaired everytime you try . 3. if you are not flying in a remote area somewhere who is gonna pay for the car or house window you fly threw or whatever else you may hit.....

i have not yet flown my plane, when i first got on here i asked the same question you did and those were the responses i got and i was still set on learning on my own until i actually talked to a guy that flies planes in my area that lost a finger just trying to start his plane, so i continued to mension to person after person that i was in the process of learning to fly my r/c plane and finally a buddy of mine that i was talking to just happened to know a guy that flies,
this guy has offered to set my plane up and to take me to a private flying field to instruct me and told me whatever i need if he has it i can use it......this goes to show that most r/c plane fliers are more than happy just to have someone to fly with and will do almost anything to help you aslong as you are willing to listen ....

good luck with what ever choice you make
mike

mburian02

My Feedback: (2)

this guy is asking a simple question how about jus showing a little support and maybe he won't waste his money that he spent on his plane and maybe even be able to move a little deeper into the hobby

FHHuber

I'm tired of people asking if they can learn without an instructor... wanting us to validate thier idea that they will have no problem.

By putting it the way I did... I hope that it will tell beginners that there is VERY little chance of success without breaking things when you start on your own.

**********

A little over 18 months ago, I met a local beginner at a park that allows RC model flying and has no club associated with the site. (getting rare... and this site is now unsafe for fixed wing models > .15 powwered because of new construction of houses)

This beginner was pulling a model out of his car. I had never seen him before... and since it was a trainer type, I asked him about how he was ding at learnign to fly. He showed me the remains of his previous week's model. The engine case was split in half the hard way. He had lost control and hit the dumpster beside the field. (big dent in the dumpster...) He had the worst mangled mess of a SPAD Debonair I have ever seen.

I offered assistance... which this beginner was glad to get.

I found he had just about mechanical every problem possible with his new model. It took me 30 min to guide him through fixing it.

I then took out my buddy cord, and we set things up.. got his model started and got it flying. Just a couple clicks of trim... then with his hands off the sticks... I hit the trainer button to see how his box was trimmed... and we soon had that adjusted. Then he got to fly his plane.

3 flights later he was able to take-off, land and do smooth level flight and smooth turns both right and left. (he was no dummy about listening, following directions and being GENTLE with the sticks.)

I have seen this person ONE other time in the last 18 months. He has advanced to a much better airplane... never needed more lessons.

********

ONE training session can make a WORLD of difference in your results.

Get that training session.

Homebrewer

My Feedback: (8)

For safety reasons, I wouldn't recommend it. There are so many tips that I'll try to list a couple to make my point.

1. Clevises: Newbies never seem to have fuel tubing slipped over a clevis to prevent it from popping off in flight. I have seen crashes as a result form this problem.

2. Loose hinges. ARF hinges should always be checked for proper installation.

3. Prop nuts not tightned enough and props flying off.

4. Standing in front of an engine that is at wide open throttle-bad idea.

5. Reaching over the prop to remove glow driver-bad idea that will cause problems (negative habit transfer) when you get a plane with an 18 inch prop later in life.

6. Engine operation and tuning. Its an art that requires the basic knowledge of how a carb works and basic engine operation theory regarding air/fuel mixtures. Too many deadsticks 30 seconds after takeoffs. Too many newbies asking online "how many turns should I set my high speed needle and low speed needle"

7. Control input with the airplane flying at you can cause problems for newbies and there are techniques to help (point antenna in direction of airplane at all times and look over shoulder or move aileron stick into the low wing direction to level wings)

etc...etc..

. As a licensed commercial pilot I was able to teach myself how to fly without any help. It cost me about 3 ARF airplanes and engines to do it due to crashes. I was fortunate to fly in an open area with no people or equipment around and I could land in any direction without having to worry about lining her up on a runway. I thought that it would have been easier since I could fly full scale-ain't so.

If you insist on doing it yourself, get a flight simulator to help you learn the basics about flight. Ask tons of questions to learn about basic setup of an actual plane.

Jim C.

thats bad technique...... you should AVOID point the antenna directly at the plane/ helicopter/ boat etc etc.. as that is known as the cone of silence... look it up. signal is strongest when NOT pointed directly at something.

Jim C.

ohhhh pooooo... i think i just realized what you were talking about... but need to clairify nonetheless. sorry, been a long day.

mnrcaerobat

My Feedback: (197)

Are you able to come to Minneapolis for a day or two? I could work with you. I have trained many, and they usually come to me after crashing several times after they have tried on their own.

I learned on my own, but like the previous posts indicated it is dangerous. I do not recommend it. Come on up and I will help you out. It will take me about and hour to go over your plane and look it over good. Then we will get the motor running good and fly the plane. On the first flight, it will be trimmed and brought back in to refuel and look at connections, control surfaces, etc. The I will put it up again and hand it over to you.

If you can't come here, get an instructor. You will learn much quicker and save a lot of money in the process.

goliath-RCU

My Feedback: (8)

I've taught a few people at my field to fly and I found that either they get it or they don't. Build or acquire a cheap trainer and go to the nearest field on the weekend find some one to get it in the air for you and see if you "get it", you don't need a club membership or an AMA card for your first flight. If you like it spend a couple hundred for the club and AMA. if you feel "nervous" during the flight give up and find another hobby.

staggerwing

My Feedback: (5)

Go to the AMA website and look up the club listings for Iowa. There is a club listed for Ft. Dodge. The president is Steve Salisbury. His phone number is 515.545.4510.

Red B.

Hi pauluk2w!

A couple of decades back I found myself in the same situation as you are today. You will probably get many replies advocating to get a flying instructor, and I agree that this is without any doubt the best method. If that for some reason is impossible this posting describes how I did go about it. It worked for me and it might work for you if you plan the process carefully.

I assume that you want to start out with glow powered aircraft (?).

1) Find some good books about basic flying techniques to learn about the primary and secondary effects of the primary controls. Learn them by heart.

2) If possible get a flying simulator like Aerofly Pro or something similar. They were not available when I learned to fly but I would expect them to be of immense help. Use it to learn to fly circuits in the air and to set the aircraft up for landings.

3) Choose a suitable model. IMHO it has to fulfill the following criterions:
- High wing
- Low wing loading (say less then 16 oz./sq.ft. or 50 g/dm^2.) in order for it to have good low speed flying capabilities.
- Tail dragger landing gear configuration (more about this controversial issue later on)
- Find an aircraft that is designed to fly without ailerons (you will have your hands full anyway).
- Do not overpower the aircraft. Whatever people say my experience is that to much power creates
more problems for beginners than it solves. Stick to the kit manufacturers recommendation.
- Use big lightweight wheels (3-4 in. on the Kadet is O.K.)
- A model such as the SIG Seniorita or Kadet, converted to tail-dragger configuration would be ideal.
- I do not know of ANY glow powerd ARF that is suitable for a solo beginner so be prepared to build from a kit.

4) While building your aircraft, put the engine on a test stand and using the same tank set-up as you will do in the aircraft, run it in carefully according to instructions. It is also a good time to learn about needle valve settings and such things.

3) Build the model carefully and install the radio according to instructions. It doesn't have to look great but there must be no warps or bad glue joints. Check the CG! It must be at, or slightly in front of, the recommended position.

4) Use a 4-channel (or better) radio and install the radio so that you have throttle and rudder on the left stick and elevator on the right stick. The reason for this is that when you later add ailerons you put the ailerons on the right stick where they are supposed to be.

5) When the aircraft is finished and the engine and radio are installed its time to go flying. NOT!!
Now is the time to get acquainted with the ground handling properties of the aircraft.
Mount the propeller back-wards in order to make it less efficient. Remember, you do not want to take-off.
Learn yourself to taxi the aircraft in a straight line, both away from you and toward you. Take your time, I probably used two gallons of fuel doing this. When using the rudder try to use as small stick movements as possible. Make only small corrections and wait for things to happen.

6) When you feel comfortable with ground taxiing you can gradually increase the ground speed so that the tail wheel is off the ground. Practice high speed taxiing. In this way you will get a feeling for the effectiveness of the rudder and elevators. Again, use only small stick deflections. This step is crucial for you to succeed in the air and it's only possible with a tail-dragger.
Things to watch out for: If you by accident get airborne, don't panic. Immediately reduce throttle to idle, leaving elevator in neutral position and let the aircraft get back on the ground by itself.
If the aircraft always tend to turn in the same direction, try applying some rudder trim. If you need more than a couple of notches of trim, something else is probably wrong. In this case check that the wheels are turning freely and that the engine have side-thrust according to plans.

Again, expect this step to take some time. Don't rush things!

8) Now it's time to prepare for your first solo! Do not forget to refit the propeller in the correct direction (it was reversed earlier on).
The key to a successful first solo is preparation, this is not the time to improvise. Make sure that the aircraft is in perfect condition and that you are comfortable with the running characteristics of your engine. There should be no signs of it leaning or cutting out.
Find yourself a suitable flying site. You need a LOT of space in all directions. Wait for perfect flying conditions with no or very little wind.
If the weather stays bad for a long time, continue the taxiing exercises in step 5 and 6.

9) Plan your first flight in detail and stick to your flight plan. Your first solo is not the best of times to improvise.
I would suggest a very simple flying schedule:
a) Take off. b) Flying around yourself in a big circle. c) Setting up for a landing. d) Landing the aircraft.

10) Your first flight:
a) Since you have become accustomed to high speed taxiing in the previous steps the take off will be a non-event. Just let the aircraft take off by itself with elevators at neutral (or slightest amount of up elevator). Do not stand directly behind your aircraft when taking off, but rather slightly to one side. This will get you a better view. Let the aircraft gain some speed and height for a few seconds and then reduce throttle to approximately 50%.

b) Now is the time to initialize the turn (say to the left). The aim is to get the aircraft flying around yourself in a large circle with a diameter of several hundred feet. Begin by feeding in a slight a mount of left rudder. When the aircraft starts turning you will notice that it will also bank by itself. Release rudder and apply a slight amount of up elevator to prevent the aircraft from diving. Again, only a slight amount of up elevator is needed.

Things to watch out for: If you do not release or reduce the rudder once the turn is initiated the bank angle will continue to increase and the aircraft will begin to dive steeply in a spiral. This is a sure recipe for a crash!

Continue to guide your aircraft in a big circle around you. If you find that the aircraft begins to level out of the turn you have to apply a small amount of rudder to keep it turning, just make sure that you return the rudder to neutral once the turn steepens and that you compensate the diving tendency by applying a small amount of up elevator.
Some people will argue that flying around yourself is usually not allowed at an airfield, but since you are learning to fly by yourself I presume that you do not have access to an R/C airfield anyway. The good thing is that flying in this way will minimize the risk of getting the aircraft in a position when it is flying straight at you. This usually leads to a left-right confusion which again is a situation that could lead to a crash.

Continue to fly the big circle. Adjust the throttle if you notice that the aircraft is continuously rising or sinking. Usually no more than 1/3 to 1/2 throttle is needed to keep the aircraft flying. A suitable flying height is 100-150 ft.

c) In order to land the aircraft safely you should try to shift the center of the circle so that the aircraft is flying above your intended landing area for part of the circle. Pick a landing spot that is a little bit away from yourself (say 60-80 ft.). If you pick a spot to close you might find that that you have to make corrections to avoid hitting yourself. This usually will cause a bit of a panic with big control deflections followed by a crash.

d) To land the aircraft you have to reduce throttle. Continue to fly in a big circle. When the aircraft is in a position directly opposite to your intended landing area you should reduce throttle to slightly above idle. The aircraft will begin to sink and you should let it do so. If it seems to dive steeply apply only a little bit of up elevator to flatten the glide somewhat. Don't overdo it. To much up elevator will cause the aircraft to loose speed which in turn will cause the aircraft to stall and most probably crash.

If everything has gone according to plan the aircraft will eventually be flying toward your landing area while continuously loosing height. Break the turn by applying a small amount of opposite rudder (do not forget to return rudder to neutral).

Let the aircraft land more or less by itself. Make only small corrections. As the aircraft gets very close to the ground reduce throttle to idle and feed in some up elevator to flare the landing. Remember that it really doesn't matter if you over- or undershoot the landing (if you have followed my advice to find a big airfield).

Things to watch out for:
- If you forget to reduce the throttle once at a comfortable height your flying speed will be high, the aircraft will climb and eventually become a speck in the sky. The controls will be very sensitive.

- Remember to let go of the rudder once the turn is initiated. If you don't you will enter a death spiral that will eventually end in a crash.

- If things go terribly wrong CUT THE THROTTLE, LET GO OF THE STICKS and assess the situation. If possible try to ease the aircraft out of any steep dives. Let it land more or less by itself.

10) Congratulations! You have soloed, hopefully with your aircraft in one piece and ready to go again. Have something to drink and give yourself some time to relax. Check the aircraft for any damage. Make another flight, exactly as the first one.

11) Make your own flight school. Sit down for a while after each flight and assess your performance. What went well and what didn't? When learning to fly on your own it is very easy to acquire bad habits. You have to be your own critic!
Over time as your flying skill improves you should try to fly the circles in the opposite directions and when you are comfortable with that, gradually try to make the circles look more like big rectangles. When you can fly 90 deg turns inter-spaced with straight segments to complete 360 deg circuits you should try to move the rectangle so that you are flying in front of yourself instead of around yourself.
As far as landings are concerned, try to make them as smooth as possible but don't worry to much about positioning them accurately. You will learn that over time. Eventually try flying figure-eights in front of you.

12) Once you can fly figure eights, nice circuits with constant altitude (both clockwise and anti-clockwise) and make passable landings you are on your way to become a proficient pilot.

The whole process of learning to fly can take several months of weekend sessions. It is important that you do not rush things or let to much time pass between flying sessions. More than two weeks and you are back to square one.

Altough a rather long reply I hope this will be of some help and that you will succeed in you endeavor to learn to fly by yourself.
It is not impossible, after all the Wrights, deHavilland, Fokker, Bleriot and others did just that!

/Red B.

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

OK, I am braced for flack - here it comes!

Yes, you can absolutely learn to fly without an instructor. However you have to keep several things in mind before you try:

1) Am I going to be a danger to other people or property?

2) Am I going to be a danger to myself?

3) What happens if I lose control of the model? Do I know how to ditch it safely and sacrifice the bird rather than put someone else at risk?

Safety first!

Now having said that and having learned with a little coaching from experience flyers, but no buddy box or formal program, here is what I would suggest. (incoming! )

Don't start with a fuel trainer.

Nothing against fuel planes, but they are powerful and they are heavy, meaning that there is a lot of mass in a 4-6 pound plane flying at 25-50 mph. It can do some serious damage if it hits something.

Notice I am not the slightest bit concerned about you crashing and destroying the plane. That is a risk you take of your own choice. But the house, the car or the kid you hit were not involved in that choice.

Starter plane suggestion for learning on your own:

My recommendation would be to start with a hand thrown glider, or a two meter beginner glider like the Spirit, Gentle Lady, Gentle Foamy or the Defiant. The last two are epp foam gliders. They fly slow, are easy to control and much less likely to hit anything hard and hurt someone. And, if you did, they are much lighter and fly much slower. All are around 1.6-2 pounds and float along at very slow speeds.

There is a series of articles at www.rcezine.com being written for beginner pilots that may interest you.

After you get good at control of the glider from hand throws you can launch it on an up-start or a hi-start. Plane, radio, and launcher can be done for under $200. If you have a radio with at least 2 channles, you have all you need.

Or

Start with a slow electric. A slow stick is a good example if you have a small field, say a football field/baseball field size space.

If you have a larger field, at least 600X600 ( 4+ football or soccer fields) , an Aerobird or a T-Hawk are good choices.

The electrics named here are pretty rugged and can stand up to some serious crashes. They are quite, so you won't disturb anyone with your flying and are less likely to draw a crowd who can get hurt watching you try to control the plane.

They are about 1 pound or less, contain no flammable liquids and top out at about 18-25 MPH. They glide nicely and can be flow pretty slowly, especially the Slow Stick.

Yes, you can learn to fly on your own, but use a plane that is less likely to get away from you and less likely to hurt someone else if it does.

Again, these planes with radios can be purchasd for under $200 including batteries and charger. If you have your own radio with at least 3 channels then you are even better off.

Here is a link to the AMA club locator. Use this to find a club in your area. However if you must learn on your own, consider my comments above.

http://modelaircraft.org/templates/ama/clubsearch.aspx

(firing squad .... ready ..... )

MikeMc

aeajr++

hgiles

My Feedback: (4)

Hey that's a nice pit bull!

FHHuber

Feeling a bit nervous on the first few flights is NORMAL. You just spent $500 to $1000 for your model and radio and engine and all kinds of support equipment and there is a risk of smackin that into the ground turning that model into garbage. There is the potential for the modl to hit someone or something causing substantial harm... if you are not at least a little nervous... you aren't safe to be around.

MikeMc

I have to agree with my good friend FHHuber on this one.

FHHuber++

PROP-WASH

My Feedback: (1)

HOWDY- Well i learned by my self with the xtra easy after 1 lesson and had a pilot at the field do the
trim for the first time. yes it was costly two fusages set of wings, couple cowls later i was flying
its not really the way to go but where i live its also hard to find help. OH i did buy a gpflight sim
that winter and practiced,practiced every chance i got. but don't GIVE UP it will and does get easier
BUT the pain in your heart when you crunch that pride and joy after only at the field for 10 or 15mins
does"nt make those ride home much fun.

good luck don"t give up!!!!!!!
PrOp-WaSh

jcflysrc

My Feedback: (50)

Yeppers! You definately WILL be nervous on your first flight...but that sorta fades with time. Safety comes from GOOD habits, and you will most likely only develop good habits if you learn under an instructor. Good habits are hard to develop in the abscense of knowledge and information specific to your level of understanding. You wont know you did something wrong...until you get bit...or lose your plane.

Scar

My Feedback: (3)

You don't want to fly in this weather, not yet, not in Iowa!

If you don't find an instructor right away, I'll be in Boxholm at Easter. I could find a place to help you, and I have trainer cords & boxes for Futaba, JR & Airtronics. Just let me know by PM a few days before.

Good luck!
Dave Olson

mnrcaerobat

My Feedback: (197)

Scar :

The weather in Iowa is 60 degrees. What is wrong with that? We flew all winter here in Minnesota. One afternoon it was 15 degrees with 15-20 mph winds.

ttmr

I recomend an instructor adamently but...
If you have to learn w/o an istructor my advice would be a GWS Pico J3F. I had one that I learned to fly by myself w/o injuring any one or destroying the plane. I only put it in onece after getting stuck in an updraft. To fly out level ment an incounter with trees and to climb above them ment major wind shear. So I put the nose down and gave it full power and it kept goin up, its that light. hit that wind shear and got blown out of the draft and into the side of a hill. A little glue and it was good to go. When I had that plane down I got an E Starter to add ailerons. Learned that one and got a glow plane and an instructor. Probably could have done with out him but it was a big help anyway, especaly with landings. You'll find that landing is easy, but landing where you want to is the hard part. Somthing that may help you to add to your first flight is a stall. I know I know, you want the KISS method but hear me out. Get a lot of altitude and then reduse the power to idle. Use up elevator to keep the plane at a relativly constant altitude. Mentaly note the speed at wich the nose droped suddenly and treat it like your minimum speed, NEVER fly slower than that speed. To recover from the stall release the back elevator and smothly but quickly apply full power. As soon as the plane has accelarated a little bit ease the elevator back and level off and then return the power to cruise levels. The reason I suggest this is that I have seen several newbies tear up there landing grear from stalling out on the final approtch.
One more thing, as this is the beginners forum I will asume you know nothing for the sake of those that do, A stall has nothing to do with the engine. Its what happens when the relative wind(airflow) excedes the critical angle of attack and the wing stops flying. Angle of attack is the angle the air makes as it hits the wing. For the purpase of this thread the stall is a function of airspeed. Most trainers cannot stall unless the airspeed drops unreasonably low. So just remember how fast the plane looked just before it stalled and keep it above that speed. Now you have to figure wind into it too but your first flights should be on nearly windless days so this should be a non issue.

If I confused anyone, please feel free to email me at [email protected] I'll be glad to help.

Crashem

I wasn't going to bother with this but..........

First off the question was not a simple one it seems to start more debates then any other!!
As far a showing a little support I read every post and all seem to try and support him!

Finally since when is preventing someone from "wasting" their money one a consideration or two anyone's business.

These "can I teach myself to fly posts?" show up every couple of weeks here...
Instead of asking the question why don't you try it and then report the outcome???

That way you'll know for sure if you can learn to fly on your own

MikeMc

IMHO: If you're going to read a beginner's forum you better get used to the same questions ask over and over and over and over. That's just the nature of a beginer's forum. If you can't then I say it's you that has the problem and not the newbie... unless it's the same newbie asking the same question.

singinrock

I went the same path that you are about to take. No instructor anywhere around my area that I knew of. But I do have a farm and another 400 acres across from me. Nothing but a few cows to see what happens. I got the mower out an cut me a nice strip as close to the ground as possible. I did manage to get the plane into the air (a Thunder Tiger trainer) and first thing was to trim it out. No problem. I flew in circles and back and forth until I figured I was about out of fuel. It flew slow and I was doing fine until the wheels touched the ground and I hit a small clump of grass. It flipped over and broke some minor items. I have been flying from the farm now for a couple of years. I did put larger tires on it, though, and it helps it across the grass. landings are still a little rough but this is a plane you can glue back together time and time again. If you can get some help, it is worth it.
rick
mt sterling ky