so i picked up a Guillow's Mitsubishi Zero model looking just to make a display model out of it. the balsa model is definitely a step up from the plastic Revell sets i'm used to. i was pleasantly surprised to find that it was designed to actually fly under rubberband power. reading through the instructions, they have included modifications to outfit the thing with r/c equipment and, upon realizing this possibility, i'm afraid that i've been bitten by the bug. i realize that this being my first balsa model, i'm probably naively in-over-my-head trying to make the thing fly, but i think that with a lot of patience and a little bit of thought, i can do it. in fact, i'm nearly obsessed with making it happen.

the only thing i lack is familiarity with the r/c equipment. i've done a lot of research this past week and have a pretty good understanding of how everything works - transmitters, receivers, servos, motors, etc. i've read a lot through the forums (here and a couple other sites) and was even inspired by Colmo's success in making the same model fly (though i think his is gas powered).

i'd like for it to fly with electric power. it appears to be easier to maintain, no clean-up, and all around less hassle. i've found a guy who's getting rid of a full set of GWS equipment: 4 channel receiver, ICS50 2amp ESC, 2 micro servos, 7.2V/270mAh Ni-Cd 6cell battery, 7.2V/150mAh Ni-Cd, GWS P2103 4:1 gearbox motor, and a Futaba Conquest FM 4 channel transmitter. Should this set of stuff be enough to get my plane to fly? i've looked at the pico servos, but am afraid they wont be strong enough. I understand that keeping it as light as possible will probably help my cause, or at least keeping the center of pressure behind the center of gravity, so i may switch to a Li-Po battery if its needed to balance better. I also dont know too much about the motor - a 4:1 gearbox has been recommended in the forums for a few other planes of similar size and weight, but i honestly dont know if its a good choice for this model.

Also, for the r/c installation, the Guillow's instructions only modify the fin and rudder for left-right control of the plane. i assume that up-down control comes from a fixed elevator and the amount of throttle given (more = up; less = down). i'm thinking about adding the stabilizer-elevator modifications from the U-Control installation instructions provided - except modifying it to respond to a second servo in the fuselage as opposed to the bellcrank assembly for the lead-out wires. this would make it a 3-channel airplane: throttle, rudder, and elevator. i toyed with the idea of modifying the wings with ailerons so it could roll, but ultimately decided that by doing so i was just begging to fly the thing into the ground by my inexperienced hand.

i dont expect the thing to fly fast. i dont expect to do any crazy aerobatics with it. i just want something to build and the satisfaction of being able to fly it around. i'll take baby steps towards flying it under power - first making sure all the controls respond, then wedging the elevator still to test glide and adjust the left-right movement, then flying it under power at really low altitude (4-6 feet) in a big open field so its chances of coming down real hard are reduced, then taking it up when i'm comfortable it can handle it.


any comments or suggestions will be most appreciated, though please avoid simply shooting it down as a waste of time because of my inexperience. i'm very meticulous with my models and therefore work very slowly and carefully to make sure things are done right. i'm not concerned with time, so instant gratification ploys (like buying an almost-ready-to-fly kit that you merely have to open and start flying) arent appreciated. i want to build it and i want it to fly. this also means that i'm prepared to put lots of time into repairs and further modifications until it successfully flies. hopefully, i'll be encouraged enough to continue dabbling in r/c flying - it appears to be a fulfilling hobby, albeit an expensive one!

thanks in advance,
~Ben

What you are proposing is possible. However you don't say if you want to fly it yourself? If you do you need to join a club or at least find a compotent flyer to assist you. No matter how much building experience you have flying is a very steep learning curve that at least requires a trainer and assistance. Then there are sims, buddy boxes, clubs etc, etc.

I believe a quick search of the AMA will provide a list of clubs in your locality. Call in and talk to the members you are bound to find some like minded souls who will be only to willing to help you.

Please don't try it on your own as the chances of success are very limited.

Good Luck,

Colin

I remember my Guillow and Comet building days, so I admire your desire to build the plane, and take it the extra step to electric power. Don't let anyone discourage you. No matter how many little mistakes you make, you will learn a lot and enjoy the process. You will probably find yourself building another one soon that will be improved and even better than your first one. Your enjoyment will skyrocket.

If you have the money, think about buying a small electric plane to practice with. These will be similar in weights and wind tolerance. You can learn a lot from a cheap rc plane before flying the Guillow. I watched on of those little planes this weekend at the field, and I was amazed at how high it got, how it landed, etc. It was fun to watch. Maybe the electrical components will give you some ideas too.

thanks for the input, guys.

Barry, i tuned a guy out at the local hobby store the other day b/c he told me that my endeavor to make the guillow's fly was too ambitious and tried to sell me a beginner's rc plane instead. i appreciate your suggestion of using it as a launching pad for learning and inspiration for my project and am seriously considering getting one now. say, i see you're in auburn... i'll be headed for Troy, AL this weekend to begin summer classes. are there any local hobby stores with quality service/info/products in the auburn/montgomery area that you would recommend?

thanks again,
~Ben

WWII Warbirds are notoriously difficult to fly -- after all they were designed to be high-performace fighters. The Zero like most warbirds is a low-wing tail-dragger. Most people here will tell you that a WWI warbird should not be a first, second, or even third plane but rather that goal you shoot for down the road. I think I built every single one of the Guillow's WWI planes (and I've built their Fokker Triplane three times) and they really are designed for very light powered flight. But I wouldn't consider one for a gas RC conversion. Maybe electric would be OK, though.

But remember if you build it for electric you HAVE to build it LIGHT. You won't be able to weight it down with the kind of scale detail you might be used to in plastic models. There are some people doing some really really neat scale free flight models but that's a whole other art form.

I think your wasting your time. The r/c conversion shown on the gillow's plan is based on 70's era single channel escapment systems. It was barely more than a free flight model you could steer. The zero's structure is not designed for multichannel r/c and really lacks the strength to carry a 7.2 V battery and power system. The guy at the hobby shop was right. If you want to cut your teeth in r/c then there are a lot of good beginners kits out there that you will have a great deal more success with. If it's about building the zero, then build the zero and enjoy it, but keep it as a rubber powered free flight model.

If you want to know if it can be done, then the answer is yes. I could do it, but I've been building models for 20 years. The performance would be marginal for the time and effort invested. There are a lot better and less frustrating ways to get involved in the hobby. I know this is not what you want to hear, but I'm trying to help not be mean.

There are some microlite r/c planes out there, that are flying at weights in the ounces. They use special servos that mount right on the control surfaces, and super micro receivers with built in speed controls. The Zero might not be the best choice of airplane for a beginner, but this hobby is all about innovation and doing what others say can't be done.....


Andy

Here's a thought. Go to the local Walmart and buy on of those $10 foam gliders with the 5-6' wingspan. Then take the powerplant and equipment you mentioned in your original post and install it in the glider. Now you have a very economical trainer that you can learn to fly on. There are actually some articles posted on the net. Here's a humorous example:

http://home.rochester.rr.com/carlvogt/Planes.htm

Funny, but Troy is between Auburn and Enterprise, where I lived for 15 years. I don't know about hobby shops, but Enterprise has a good one. Morgan Fuels is located there too. The LHS is on the main street, just past the fountain. It is about 45 minutes from downtown Troy. I would guess that Troy has a LHS. Aviation is big in that area with Ft. Rucker just down the road. Montgomery is about an hour away. I don't know much about what is there.

You are getting a lot of advice on the Zero. Maybe some of those mini servos would work well with it. It isn't going to hurt to build the plane while digging into the equipment issues. There are some lightweight motor/battery options available. After seeing some of the tiny planes flying around, I don't see why you can't make something that flies well.

You know that Troy is a party town, right? I think the first place to check out is The Porch.....

There was a guy at Fentress a while ago flying a Guillows B-17 that he had converted to r/c. 4 yes 4 motors, all working, thing looked AWESOME! And I would guess the wingspan was about the same as a slow stick.... really neat.


Andy

thanks to everyone for the advice and considerations. it looks like i'll attempt to outfit it with micro servos and a Li-Po battery to keep the weight down as much as possible. i'll let you all know how it turns out.

Ken, I like the idea of rigging up the foam glider to beat around and practice with - it at least keeps with my passion of working to make something fly. I really cringe at the idea of just pulling something out of a box, throwing in a battery, and sending it up in the air. not to knock the hobby in any way...i, personally, would just get bored real quick.

Barry, thanks for the tip. i'll go check out the place in enterprise. i actually laughed at the idea of troy being a party town...especially over auburn. i've been going to school there four years (finishing my chemistry degree this summer). its very much a 'backpack college' - everyone goes home on the weekends. i dont frequent The Porch much, but who knows...its summer and there's not much to do in small alabama towns...kinda why i'm taking up a new hobby.

Sigh, I guess things change. Troy was in the top 10 party towns list in Playboy a few years back. If you are still in the Auburn area, go to the LHS and get directions to our club. It isn't far out of Auburn and you will have a good time out there. If I knew you were coming out I would bring a trainer for you to fly around a little at altitude.

The LiPoly idea is a good one.

Hmmm... You may cringe at taking something out of the box and flying it, but you'll cringe more when you drive the model you just spent 6 months building into the ground. I think you've got some misconceptions about this hobby. The route you're going you face the challenge of taking a bare bones kits and converting it into an aircraft that will actually fly. In order to do that you must build all of your control surfaces flat, complete the final assembly so that you incidences and alignment are correct, build light enough to actually fly, properly install the radio, and select and install the engine with virtually no experience. Then, if you make it this far, you need to learn to fly, and your notion of flying around 6' off the ground is the EXACT opposite of what you want to do. Trust me, a crash from 6' will destroy you plane. You'd be better off at 150' so you have enough altitude to recover from a mistake.

Now this is coming from someone that has NEVER assembled a prebuilt airplane and taught myself how to fly. As a consequence my first couple airplanes turned better in one direction than the other (poor alignment or warps) and ended up getting crahsed anyway. I did just about everything wrong a person can do getting started in this hobby, and frankly it's amazing that I'm still in it. You should really save yourself the heartache and get some experienced help from the start.

Sure, converting the zero over to r/c is going to be tough. But "too ambitious"? I bet the Wright Brothers heard that one too.

There are multiple differences between this case and the Wright brothers. For instance, they defined the science of the time regarding not only lift and thrust, but stability and control. Then they built gliders and taught themselves how to fly.

I stand by my recommendation. I wish someone had given me the SAME advice when I was screwing around at 13 years of age trying to convert a GILLOWS P-40 WARHAWK to fly on a G-mark .061 and a 2-channel radio. Guess what, it didn't work. The best thing that happened at the time was my dad bought me a Drifter 2-meter glider. That worked and I finally learned to fly, but I waisted a lot of time, effort and money on that silly kit. Gillows aircraft are not structurally or aerodynamically suitable for r/c flight. Can it be done -heck yes. Is it worth the effort? Probably not.

BASlug,
Hopefully you won't "tune" ksechler out as well

It is much more difficult to "learn" in the manner you are proposing. Especially with a zero.

If you have done as much research as you say then maybe you noticed that almost all models sold as trianers look remarkably similiar... This is because form follows function in most aircraft design

For Small Electrics I would recommend looking at GWS models they are decent flyers out of the box easy to assemble and repair use airborne components that can be reused in other models and relatively inexpensive.

Two that I reccomend are the Tigermoth and slow stick for about 250-350 you can get airborne quickly then after you have a "taste" of flying and some experience building/repairing you could attempt the zero conversion

Maybe I misunderstood the original post. If you are trying to learn how to fly using your converted plane, then I agree with the other guys. A trainer plane and the assistance of an instructor is the way to go. But you can still convert the plane you want over to R/C. Check out [link=http://www.smallrc.com]smallrc[/link] most of the planes there are conversions.

thanks for everyone's input - i really do appreciate all the advice and/or suggestions.

~Ben

Ben,
I too agree with all that's been said regarding learning to fly. It's much more difficult than it looks, or might seem. IF you've had untold hours of time on various really fast paced video games, including aircraft type sims, then I'd say you have a leg up on things. BUT it's still highly unlikely that you could easily learn by yourself, without crashing a number of times.

And that's with a trainer type plane. The Guillow's kits, while a few people have sucessfully converted them to RC, are going to be extremely difficult to fly becasue they are small and have a very high wing loading when converted to RC.

The most successful conversions were done by replacing much of the Guillows 'heavy' wood with lighter contest grade balsa, and then using magnetic actuators on the control surfaces rather than servos. We're talking about a few of grams rather than a couple of ounces for servos. The same is true for the receivers used. There are extremely small Rx's available (smaller and lighter than the GWS 4 channel), but they're expensive. The last time I saw pricing on this stuff the Rx and a couple of magnetic actuators were running in the $125 range. I imagine those prices have come down significantly, but I'm trying to point out the lengths people were having to go in order to make those kits "fly" reliably.

If you want to see good references to converting these things, or for electric microflight in general, try EZone. The site specializes in electrics and has micro, foamie, and park flyer forums. All of which would provide valuable info on what's needed to do that conversion.

Good luck, Welcome to RCU, and above all, HAVE FUN!
Dennis-