To anyone:

I am new to this sport and have read the how too's and such but am still needing some help. Typically these planes come with a 350 motor and C gearing. Mine came with a 400 motor and D gearing. I did not order this as an extra it just came with it. HobbyTron sent a 1060 prop but it seems like I do better with a 1080. I ordered two planes at the same time 1 for me and 1 for a friend. His come with the 350 and the motor is significantly lighter. It seems like his does much better and both of us are having a hard time getting my CG correct and finding a prop to work well with my plane. This is my first plane and I am getting a little discouraged. I have lightened it up as much as possible and tried 7 and 8 cell packs. It seems like no matter what I do I stay nose heavy and have very little power during landings. I almost have to run full throttle to stay up and when I back off enough to land I lose almost all control.

Does anyone have a 400 motor on this plane? If so what prop are you running and how did you get it to balance correctly? I've tried adding weight but that seems like it only makes it worse. I appreciate any help for this wanna be pilot.

Good Day and God bless.

ok, here are a couple thoughts, but thoughts usually aren't just pennies in cost.
if you are way too heavy, try going to lithium polymer packs. the packs that usually come with these things are nickel cadnium packs (nicads) which are heavy but can put out a lot of amps. they also dont have much capacity so your flight time will be limited. lithium polymers are newer technology. they come in flat cells that are 3.2 volts per cell as opposed to 1.2 meaning that a two cell pack would make a motor pack. a speed 400 will likely draw 10-12 amps, so you want a battery that will put out that much current. something like a 2000 mah pack would do nicely. now for these batteries you can not use the charger they gave you (unless it says i can charge lithium polymers or lithium ions) because it will continue to charge until the cell explodes (not leaks, i mean explodes violantly) which is not good.(duh) so li-poly batteries (lithium polymers) may be the answer here. go to your lhs (local hobby shop) and ask about them. they are sure to know, and they can probably reccomend some compatible equipment to use as well and will tell you all you need to know. that should knock off several ounces right there and should give you significantly longer flights. you speed 400 is probably fine

Well I doubt your gonna go spaceclams route since it will cost more than the plane is worth, although he is probably correct....the CG on the e-starter is wrong on the plans, it is not a good plane anyway, I crashed mine 3 times in 3 flights and took the motor out and trashed the plane..worst plane GWS makes,,and I have a few of theirs ....Rog

What Spaceclam says abut LiPo is correct. What he failed to mention is the cost. LiPo batteries and chargers ARE EXPENSIVE, especially compared to NiCAD/NiMH.

I would suggest the following:

1. Remove any extra weight you may have put on the plane to balance it.

2. Balance the plane by shifting the battery pack. This MAY mean you will need to use a #11 Exacto blade to enlarge the battery opening so the battery can slide further back. The instructions should tell you where to balance it. If the instructions do not give a balance point, measure the WIDTH (chord) of the wing next to the fuselage. Divide by 3 and you should have the distance from the leading edge of the wing for a starting point to balance (you can adjust the CG after if it doesn't perform the way you want). A "balance machine" can be easily made. Get a piece of 2x4 about 12" long and 2 pieces of 1x2 about 12" - 18" long. Nail one piece of the 1x2 vertically (on edge) to each end of the 2x4 (center the 1x2 on the 2x4). Get 2 1/4" dowels 12" long and 2 tapered rubber erasers (the type that go over the end of a pencil). Measure the width of the fuselage. Add 1/2" to the measurement and divide by 2. Mark this measurement on each side of the center of the 2x4. Drill a 9/64" hole at each location. Insert the dowels with the erasers in the holes Use a magic marker and put a mark on the underside of the wing at the balance point. Set the plane on the erasers and move the battery pack until the plane is level. Put a mark on the battery pack AND the plane to mark the location.

3. Make sure the battery pack is fully charged. If your charger is a "timer" type, you may want to investigate getting an inexpensive "peak" charger to insure the pack is completely charged. Dymond has one that automatically detects the number of cells in the pack (4 - 8 cells) and will charge NiCAD and NiMH. It costs about $30.

4. I suggest using the 8 cell pack. It will provide a little extra "zip" to the motor. If you haven't "run the motor in" I suggest doing it. Running the motor in is easy. Take the prop off the motor. Submerge the motor in a container of water. Hook up one D cell directly to the motor and let it run until the battery runs down. This will seat the brushes to the commutator in the motor without arcing and possibly damaging the commutator. If the commutator is damaged it will affect the power of the motor. If you can not get at the motor to wire a D cell to it, charge the battery pack, remove the prop, submerge the motor and run it at 1/2 throttle for about 5 minutes.

5. The 1060 prop will provide more thrust, but less top speed. The 1080 prop will give you a better top speed, but less thrust. I suggest starting with the 1060 prop and if that doesn't provide the performance you want, move to the 1080.

The plane should now fly. It will be slow and you will have problems if there is wind. Be sure you hand launch the plane, and launch the plane level - do not launch it nose up or down, be sure the throttle wide open.

Hope this solves your problems.

WOW!!!

What difference my plan has made now that I've gotten my CG correct! I'm so pumped.. I work the late shift but I've gotten up early every morning this week so I could go flying. I also put on a 9 cell pack and despite the extra weight it's really woke that 400 motor up. Thank you all for your advice and kind words. I never realized just how different you RC guys are, it's amazing how willingly everyone helps each other out and how enthusiastic they when they do. Again, Thank you!!

I've even managed to do some touch and goes now plus successfully fly & land without damaging my plane... Wooo Hoooo

thanks guys,
bamater

Glad to hear you got it flying PROPERLY.

Happy flying

I don't know what I enjoy more in this hobby, building, having a good flight, or seeing/hearing about someone I have tried to help having a good flight.
Have fun,
Dave

I plan on using this plane for a while till I get decent at it, but I'd like to start saving for that next step up. I know everyone has their favorites, but any suggestions on a next plane?

thanks guys,
bamater

i did not mention the cost of li-polys on purpose. i wanted him to do the reaserch before getting scared off so he can make an educated descision rather than not want to do it at all and seeing it as a waste of tine

Then throw in the brushless moter and the CC ESC to go with it and I can almost tolerate a day without the smell of glow fuel. I didn't mention it either, but I figure he's addicted now.

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Brushless GWS Formosa is a ball. I even take a break from the glow planes to toss it up. I reinforced the fuse sides with 3/32 balsa after a minor foam explosion. It almost holds its own against the .46 powered SPADS.

a brushless motor will help with the power but it wont help with the weight issue. i simply reccomended the li-poly batteries becasue not only do they really allow you to have more time to enjoy a better flying plane, but if you get a better plane later you can use them in it as well. so what if they are worth more than the plane. batteries dont fly alone, and it does not fly well with the batteries he has. face it. nicads aren't really well suited to small electric flight. that's why the li-poly thingy is really booming. i am sure you can get a little cheapy charger and some relatively inexpensive batteries and you will be fine.

Agreed (somewhat), but his 400 motor won't give him any satisfaction with a 2S pack and his 8 cell ESC won't do anything but smoke on a 3S pack.

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A brushless motor can be much lighter and a brushless motor can increase flight times because of its higher efficiency.

I simply reccomended the brushless motor and ESC becasue not only do they really allow you to have more time to enjoy a better flying plane, but if you get a better plane later you can use them in it as well.

If it weren't for brushless motors and li-pos I'd save the electric planes for my kid and beginners.

LOL.... yes I'm addicted, I can't even sleep now...

I have a friend in England, met via here, who seems to really enjoy his Formosa.. I may eventually go that route.

On another note, I have NiMH and not NiCd.. if that even makes a big difference. My 400 is rated for 12-14v and I have a GWS 480E ESC like 15amp deal or something. just an f.y.i for your guys debate.. lol

Had a real nice flight this evening, like I said before I can't believe the difference after getting my CG straightened out. But is the 9 cell pack too much for everything? I think I can drop back to the 8 cell now and be fine as long as I keep it balanced. However I went ahead and ordered a 350 motor just to check it out and see if I like it better.

Correct me if I'm wrong but from what I've read the 400 is more of the torque monster vs the 350 has high rpms.. I know gearing also comes into play with this but I think my basic logic is ok. I figured with the 350 I'd be lighter plus with higher rpms a little faster. And basically I end up with an extra motor that I can use if one blows up or I get that new plane...

On one more note (sorry to ramble, but my brains racing away with me) what type of maneuvers /aerobatics due you think I should work on or would be appropriate with the estarter? I'm getting decent at the touch and goes and want to take it up a notch. Also pointers on "performing" or at least attempting to perform them would be awesome.

Thanks guys, you all rock!!!
Bamater

The basic loop is easy to do, just pull up. It is hard to make a perfect loop, decrease throttle at the top and try to make a perfect circle.
Try flying inverted. Remember down is up when you are inverted. I like to practice flying inverted circuits.
Rolls, remember down is up when you are inverted.

Practice as high as you can clearly see the plane. Five feet off the ground is cool and impresses people, but five hundred feet off the ground the basics are the same and you can make 5 or 6 mistakes and still fly tomorrow.

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Oh, hammerheads or stall turns are fun and pretty. Go straight up until you run out of power. Kick the plane over to the side with the rudder then come straight back down. When you come down far enough use a little up elevator to return to level flight.

Reduce throttle to idle on maneuvers where you are coming straight down or diving. Gravity brings you down fast enough. There is no need to use the motor to try and remove the wings from the airplane.

For more ideas http://www.3drc.info

Here's mine I just maiden her last weekend...

Stock GWS 350 C Gear

8 Cells 8.4 Volt 750 Mah Pack

9X7 GWS Prop

She's a little slow to take off, it would be better with a 10X8, but I don't have the clearance with the trike gear...

Very happy with the in-flight performance !!!

Sam

Use a 9x 7 OR 9 x 8 3 blade prop. You will have your ground clearance and the performance of the 10 x 8.

Thanks for the info, I have a bunch of 9X7 three bladers...

Here's a couple more shots from the weekend...

Sam

Does anyone know of a place I could get some wheel pants that would fit the estarter?


thanks,
Bamater

White foam insulation sheet from Home Depot?

i think you will just be wasting time. if you want a scale cessna look you are really kind of looking at the wrong plane. ther are other better ones out there that will look much more scale both on the ground and in the air.

I think it is a sharp looking little plane. I think it would look great with a set of pants. Of course, it takes me much less time to tear pants off than it does to put them on.

Tracon,
Did you do a custom on your trike landing gear (I've never seen this in the factory kits)? Is the front wheel actuated by the rudder pushrod, or just show? I've flown a few Estarters, but your's by far looks the sweetest. Do you have any closer pics of the landing gear details? Thanks.

lk.

I did the nose gear mod with Du-Bro 1/2 nose gear, it works by the way of a push rod from the rudder servo...works awesome...turns in a nice 5' to 6' circle...

Here's a couple more pictures:

Sam

One more up close shot, sorry no internal pictures of the mod...still working on that !

Sam

Wow, what great pics...and I could dream about where you're flying from! I'd love to see pics of the mod when you get those up...I've got to get the nose wheel on my E-Starter.