I need to pick everyone's brain a little bit.

I am having a slight problem on takeoff regarding both my tail draggers.
I can keep the takeoff roll nice and straight using rudder, but once the main gear leaves the ground and I get about 5 feet in the air the plane starts banking left. Longitudinal balance is right on and CG is where it is supposed to be. Trim is perfect in flight with no banking tendencies.
Ground handling is fine and both planes track straight on high speed taxi runs.

I tried keeping the plane on the ground until I get more airspeed but it did not help. I tried both keeping the tail planted on the ground until I had enough airspeed to fly and also let the tail rise when it was ready. I am positive it is torque, but I could be wrong

I am looking for suggestions. It is not uncontrollable but it does bother me. [>:]

You are probably tip stalling because you are climbing out at too steep an angle, (at least that is what I found) - it will gather speed more quickly the air than on the ground.

Give it a little right rudder on climb out.

I think right rudder is the answer too. I intitially suspected that you were near stall speed, but after further reading, don't think that's it. Most of my planes require some right rudder (and or aileron) at lower airspeeds to keep it from rolling slightly to the left. And yes, chances are it's torque.
Dennis-

Thanks everyone, please keep the suggestions coming.

It usuall yakes right aileron to get it back. I am pretty sure I'm keeping the rudder input in but was not on the ailerons until it would start it's bank. I'll give the aileron suggestion a try along with a touch of right rudder.

Do you all think that if I add more riht thrust that might help to help compensate for it

Again, it's not severe, but annoying as I can usually take off straight and fly out straight with a Tri-Gear without an issue on a trainer.

I wouldn't add any more right thrust until you've flown them for a while. You'll probably find the right combination of inputs and get use to the take off routine. Adding right thrust may impact the flight characteristics, which you said were fine.
Dennis-

Thanks Dennis

The right thrust was just a thought. Yea, in the air they are both beautiful flying planes

yo bubba, what prop you swinging on that Twist and how long you been flying it?

And are those ailerons on the Twist in neutral position in that photo? They appear to be way high for neutral....that may be part of the problem...kinda "air-braking" it on takeoff???

...my two pennies worth

ghee

I just maidened it tonight and did 4 flights. Dang thing is a ball in the air. Once I get the 12.25X3.75 APC prop on it, it should really be a blast but I want to get better on the takeoffs first since the larger prop will add more torque. The current prop is an 11X5 APC

The 4* has about 10 flights with a 11X7 prop (started with an 11X5 APC also) which will also get the 12.25X3.75 APC prop eventually but am waiting for the same reasons as I mentioned above for the Twist

The surfaces are not neutral in the photo. They are when radio/servo power is applied. The plane took absolutely no aileron/rudder trim but needed 4 clicks down at about 3/4 throttle on the elevator

BTW...the props in the pictures were both 11X5 Zingers but were change to APC props

I thought you were better than that! That APC 12.25x3.75 will be the best thing you can do for your Twist. You won't have a tip-stalling problem on take off with that one.

Keep me up on your flight reports! I've run over 3 gallons thru mine and I'm enjoying this plane more every day.

check out these threads if you haven't already........

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_16..._1/key_/tm.htm

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_17...tm.htm#1757578

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_20...tm.htm#2029522

Ok Ok...I admit it...I was neverous about the maiden and I went with the smaller prop.

My only question is: Won't the bigger diameter prop add more torque correction to the takeoff

Landing this bad boy is a breeze though

I through the 12.25X3.75 on my LT-40 Kadet and it really woke that plane up. The WOW factor went through the roof

I hardly notice the torque effect on takeoffs. I put a little rudder in until I get up to nearly lift off speed, but I don't think I have to put in any after that. The real problem I see with the torque issue is when I'm landing and floating out a little long and slow and have to bump the throttle, it will torque a little and go slightly nose high which I've learned to correct for.

That prop is definitely a sweet one for any 40 size plane!

Ghee-grose,

I just set it up on G2 and I have found the combination for a nice straight takeoff. It needs a little right rudder for a few seconds as flying speed increases then it can be removed. Very little right aileron helps a little to just after lift-off

I really appreciate all the help today and I'll test it out tommorrow if the weather holds up and post the results here.

I see the Twist as becoming my favorite plane for aerobatics and the 4* for just buzzing around and ripping up the sky. Both are a blast in their own way and the Kadet for just the days when I need to just putt around the sky and relax for a bit.

I did check out the links you provided and other than yours I have read most of them prior to my maiden.

Yeah, mine is a new one. I was trying to spark some interest in people posting some pics of their Twists, but I don't think anybody takes pictures except for me. [] I'd love to see some other folks at play, not just me.

I've been practicing low inverted passes with my Twist (evo 46NT w/12.25x3.75) and will try to take some pictures this weekend. Last weekend I got down to repeatable steady passes about 3 ft off the deck (which for me is looooowwwww).

One question I have is if anyone elses Twist makes a lot of noise in the air. Thought tight, the covering seems to vibrate in flight. Its not flutter, its like a lower pictched thrum.

BTW, I ended up with about 4 degrees down and 3 right to get my Twist to track straight and true with minimal rudder. Next time you fly it, when you take off let it roll another 20-30 ft before rotating and see if that helps. I fly off a paved runway and other than a little rudder input until the tail gets up, it climbs out straight and level.

Duke

Bill,
Just be careful of rudder inputs on the 4*. They tend to dive when given much rudder. It's just the design of the empennage (tail surfaces) and is common to all of them.
Dennis-

Hey Duke

I do here some noise, but it sounds like high speed wind across the surfaces, especially in a dive. My 4* does the same thing

I have read on another thread that the twist can sometimes get flutter if going to fast so I would be checking servo linkage connections

I also tend to seal all my gaps on the ailerons and elevators of all my planes which is not a fix all for flutter but it does help with the added benefit of better control serface authority, not that the Twist needs it.

DB, yea I am aware of the pitch coupling with the rudder, thanks. I found on G2 last night, with just a little rudder and aileron mix just after it leaves the ground it will climb out straight. I did look at my thrust angles. I have down thrust in both planes but it looks as though I have no right thrust at all on the Twist or the 4*.

Guess I'll figure out how to add the thrust or just get a little better with the sticks.

I have yet to see any flutter or hear any strange noises on mine and I've had the thing full throttle and screaming on a 45deg down line for a few hundred feet. I know it was chancey but I had to try it.

Neither of your models has much rudder roll-couple, so holding in a bit of right rudder after take-off will keep you tracking straight, but it won't do a lot to counteract torque-induced left roll. You are already doing what you need to do after breaking ground (using the ailerons) until you have built up a bit of speed. Don't mess with the planes if they fly straight at normal in-flight speeds.

As DBC said, be very carefull that the noise you hear is not flutter -- it can tear the butt right out of your planes in a heartbeat.

You will know flutter if you ever hear it once. Low, loud, and sounds serious. Covering will drum some when you fly by. Also, stick build surfaces, such as elevators, will drum if something has snapped or cracked.

My 4* and a couple others give up a high pitched whistling kind of noise at high speeds. Nothing to worry about, but as blwblw mentioned, if you hear a "thrumming" kind of sound, cut throttle and land ASAP!
Dennis-

Bubbagates where did you find the Twist for G2? I'm building mine now and wouldn't mind a little practice before hand.

I took the Dazzler and made a copy of it. Then I went to the airplane and took all the measurements off of it.