lablkilz699

Okay, i've been real interested in r/c planes over the past few months, and i finally got some money for my birthday and decided to go out and buy one of these ARF planes. (to make a project out of it and to keep the inital cost a little lower). I purchased the Super Sportster made by Great Planes. The guy at Hobbytown USA told me it was getting great reviews from the people buying it, and it was only about $160 plus tax. I'm not experienced in building planes at all but the guy there said it's really not that complicated so I decided to try it. He also said that FS2004 (flight sim) helps after I told him i play it frequently. Now before I go and destroy it, I was wondering what sort of engine, servos, gas, radio, etc. is reccomended. Remember, im not made of money, so cheap is my favorite phrase at the moment. I dont want garbage, but just something that a teenage kid can afford. It comes "90% pre-built." Its painted...monokote, whatever....comes with landing gear, fuel tank spinner, and all that type of stuff, im just wondering what other things i will need. The directions arnt all that simple to understand and im somewhat confused with all the numbers and stuff like that. Any tips, or help along the way would be greatly appreciated.

http://greatplanes.com/airplanes/gpma1042.html

flyinrog

My Feedback: (1)

Well, there is too much that you dont know and I suspect the guy at hobby town was out to sell you anything....first thats not a trainer type plane...take it back and try and trade it in on a suitable trainer ..get a kit and an engine for that money....check out the classifieds here for a 4 channel radio for ~$100-150...you need glue, monokote an iron,epoxy, engine mount, fuel, tx and rx batteries, fuel pump and tank, watch e b a y sometimes someone gets in the hobby and wants out quick and that makes for good buys...usually becasue they crash because they start off with the wrong plane...hint hint wink wink....find the local club and see if someone has the whole trainer set up for sale....Rog

welcome aboard

bingo field

I have to agree greatly with flyinrog that what you got isn't normally considered a first plane. It doesn't mean you can't learn to fly on it, but it wasn't designed for an absolute first time flyer. You may want to look at taking it back after you find a local flying club. Find it, talk to an instructor, get your hands on the club trainer if they have one. Someone at the club is likely to have a trainer that they would sell you that with an instructors help, will last long enough to train you, and you know it will fly well before you buy it. You will learn about any and all of the accecories that you will need to launch, recover, maintain and build. You will save a ton of money. Really. Not to mention, you would have most of the members of the club to help you hands on and over the phone with more common questions. You really can't go wrong finding a local club to help you out.

FlyerBry

My Feedback: (8)

I have to go along with what flyinrog said. People have learned on low wing planes before without problem but the Super Sportster is a bit too fast for that purpose. It is really more of a second plane. If your local Hobbytown is anything like mine, they have a lot of young people working there who are often more into RC cars than planes. For this reason they don't give the best advice when it comes to planes. The good news is these stores have a good return policy and should let you at least exchange the Super Sportster for a trainer (high wing) style airplane. A couple I know they carry and often have in stock are the LT-40 from Sig Manufacturing and the NexStar from Hobbico. The LT-40 is an ARF like the Super Sportster and should cost around $135.00. The NexStar is also an ARF but comes with more bells and whistles that aren't totally necessary but it is designed to be very simple to set up.

With the LT-40 you will have to purchase a .46 size engine separately while the NexStar comes with one already installed so keep this in mind while making your decision. With your limited funds it may be easier to get a plane first and begin the building process then get the engine later when you have more money saved up.

The instruction manuals for both these planes should tell you everything you need to assemble your plane. Some items you will need for assembly:
30-minute epoxy
razor blade or hobby knife
small screwdrivers

Additional RC equipment you will need:
Radio (this includes the transmitter, a receiver that goes in the plane and four standard size servos that will plug into the receiver and a flight battery to power the equipment in the plane. These items can be purchased new as a set or separatly.
Engine: A ball bearing supported .46 size (Thunder Tiger .46 Pro is generally considered the best bang for the buck) is the best recommended size to get started with. You will also need a glow plug for the engine. Note: if you get the NexStar the engine and glow plug are included with the plane.
Glow Fuel - anywhere from 5 to 15% Nitro should work fine to start off.
Glow plug ignighter - this is basically a battery you connect to the engine to get it started. You take it off before flying - the engine will run on its own at this point.

Some additional advise:
Find a local flying club - there will be someone there willing to help you get started and will provide lots of advice.
As has been previously mentioned, there is often used equipment available that can be much cheaper than starting new. I helped a friend get his nephew started flying last summer on a used LT-40 with engine for only $120.00. All he had to do was find radio equipment, fuel and starting equipment and he was ready to go for relatively cheap.

Good luck!

DBCherry

My Feedback: (4)

lablkilz,
First, welcome to RCU. It's a great place with a lot of good people that will give good advice, and you've already gotten some.

I sure wish you had spent some time here before you made that purchase, but think you could/should try to take it back. If you had extra money, I'd say hold on to it because the Super Sportster really is a terrific second plane. (It was my second, and I have another one now.)

The AMA has a "Club Locater" page. You plug in your city or your Zip Code and will get a number of RC clubs fairly close by. Check one out on a nice weekend afternoon. You'll meet some good people and may very well get your first flight on a "Buddy Box".

There really is a good chance that you'll also find someone willing to sell their used trainer, with engine and radio at a reasonable price ($200 or so). I've helped a couple new guys find deals like this.

The other option is a "Ready To Fly" (RTF) package. There are some RTF's available in the $289 to $300 range that come with a trainer, engine and radio equipment.

Anyway, here's the AMA club locater link: http://www.modelaircraft.org/templat...677786D06500E8

Good luck, and spend some time reading older threads on RCU. You'll learn a lot.
Dennis-

saramos

Others have addressed the issue of type of plane to select. I will comment on the simulator side of your inquiry.

For the most part, you can forget the FS2004. The biggest problem with it is that you fly from the perspective of the pilot. This is good for simulating full sized airplanes, but not for RC flying. Even if you choose tower view, these are simulated full sized aircraft, nor RC aircraft. The flight characteristics of RC planes are different than full sized planes. RC planes often fly at speeds and perform manuvers that would destroy full sized planes, and are outside the flight characteristics modeled in FS2004.

For RC flying, you have to learn to fly the plane while standing on the ground. This introduces a problem that a lot of people struggle with. When the airplane is flying toward you, the controls appear reversed. If you give left turn inputs, the plane will turn to your right. When the plane is flying away from you, the controls appear normal - left input turns plane to your left.

A better choice is a flight simulator that is specific to RC flying. There are a number of them. Real Flight G2 from Great Planes is the most common (it is what I use). The perspective is from a standing point on the ground. The airplanes are simulations of actual RC airplanes, from trainers to jets, gliders to helicopters. Real Flight uses a USB connected dummy controller that is like an RC transmitter, not a gaming joystick. You can even connect to your real transmitter and fly the simulator with it. There are other brands that are available. There is even a free one you can find on the internet called FMS. You can buy an adapter that allows you to use your transmitter with it as well.

The Real Flight G2 sells retail for about $200. I have seen it on EBay for around $140. It is money well spent! you can crash it over and over, and just push the spacebar to restart. It's also good on those days when weather, or limited time, or a crashed - ah - er, trainer undergoing "improvements", prevent you from getting down to the field.

Scott

enyaengine

I agree with what has been said. A low wing plane is not the one to learn on. I am just starting out in planes too (been doing cars and boats a while), this is my first plane:



It's made from expanded polystyrene, which means that unlike a balsa model, it doesn't turn into toothpicks when you try to land it. It's powered by an OS .40 LA which it came with along wih the Tx, nicad and 5 servos. Total cost secondhand . . . £90 (approx. $160).
I then just bought a Futaba 6EXA, crystals and a few other things and I'm away!
It is also worth noting that Futaba radio set's have a 'buddy' system. Get a futaba radio and join a club. Hopefully there should be someone there with a Futaba too, which means you can link them. He takes control when uoi'te in troubler.

Good Luck.

leftnut

My Feedback: (1)

don't feel bad....my LHS did the samething to me
when i first started...not one word mentioned of a trainner.

i had a couple of supersporster..deffernently not a beginner's
got them used for $40 ea built

i agree with the rest of the guys. if an R/C club is avaliable
to you, you should look into it. some clubs even have designated
trainners for noobies. mine dose.

i got an avistar for $45 and a contender for $35
built and covered at a funfly at my first club attendance.

a complete plane,radio,engine for $100.
hell..one day an old guy showed up at the field.
threw a bunch of stuff on the table and said it was all free.

i genally give my used or un wanted stuff away . need to
clean my hanger every other year...stuff disappear fast

it's a great hobbie and you'll meet a lot of interesting peaple.
most are nice and willing to help.
but buyers beware....peaple are still peaple
sum will try to rip you a new one

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

Enough said about low wings as trainers - Not the best choice.

If you are dying to build, then go for it, but if you are dying to fly, then RTF might be a good path. Save the building to the second plane when you know more.

I fly electrics and sailplanes, so I won't advise on a specific glow plane from personal experience. If you want to talk electrics or sailplanes, I can help you.

However, I will show you a route you might not have considered; Ready-to-fly. All built, all electronics installed and radio included. Nothing to suffer over. You focus on flying, not assembly. And, typically it costs you less to go this way.

NextStar is getting great review - Includes a flight stabilization system - $379:
If I was starting in glow with my first plane, based on all I read, this is the one I would get.
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...=LXEXK2**&P=ML

Tower Hobbies Trainer - $279 - RTF
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...=LXCXF4**&P=ML

Avistar Trainer - $269 - RTF
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...=LXMU53**&P=ML

These are traditional trainers, set up as trainers. The NextStar has features the others don't have, like flight stabilization, stall inhibiting wing cuffs, air breaks to slow the plane down, ....

If I didn't have a radio systems and was looking to get into a Glow trainer for the first time, I would probably go to the NextStar.

Now the experienced glow guys can comment, but this is something you may not have known about.

If you are planing to go the ARF/kit route and plan to buy a radio, don't buy a standard radio. Go the few bucks more and get a computer radio. Here is why:
[link=http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=65]Don't buy a standard radio[/link]

Campy

My Feedback: (1)

I suggest taking the plane back to your LHS and getting your money back.

You might also tell him that the next time you do business there you would appreciate it very much if he used some Vasoline.

FWIW - MOST REPUTABLE HOBBY SHOPS will match Tower's price on major equipment purchases.

The Super Sporster IS NOT A TRAINER. You want a trainer. Being on a budget (and who isn't these days) I suggest the following equipment:

Hobbico SuperStar or Avistar
Thunder Tiger Pro 46 of Evolution 46 engine
A 4 OR 6 channel radio

The total cost for this would be about $310 for a 4 channel and about $335 with a HiTec Laser 6 channel radio. Of course you will need to add in for props (11x6 Master AirScrew suggested), fuel, starting battery, glo plugs, some epoxy and CA. This additional stuff you will need anyway.

The engines I mentioned are very user friendly (99.9% run great right out of the box ), and highly useable in future planes. The engines that come in the RTF's (Ready To Fly ) are USUALLY bushed bearing 40 engines with about 1/2 the power of a 46. They will fly the trainer, but have little, if any, reserve power for emergencies, much less be suitable for the majority of second planes.

The prices I am talking are perhaps $10 - $35 more than an RTF, but the quality of the engine is MUCH better and for the $35 difference, BOTH the engine AND radio are much better.

The equipment I mentioned is available from Tower Hobbies.

The breakdown is:

Plane (ARF ) $99
Engine $89
Radio 4 channel $130
OR
Hitec Laser 6 $145

The simulator will help, however, it will not teach you how to fly. I STRONGLY suggest going to the local flying field and finding an instructor. Clubs do not charge their members for instruction.

Hope this helps.

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

These are the components in the various RTF packages listed above - For comment by the knowledgable.


NextStar RTF

Engine: Pre-installed O.S. Max .46FXi (7.5cc) with high-speed
needle valve extender/limiter that limits the movement of the
high-speed needle to prevent engine from being run too lean,
engine is mounted on IsoSmooth Mount to isolate airframe and
radio gear from damaging vibration

Radio: Futaba 4YBF 4-channel FM radio system with trainer system and
AFS (Active Flight Stabilization) that actively searches for any
signs of instability and takes immediate action to correct them.
This system uses on-board electronic sensors that detect
instability-just release the sticks and AFS does the rest.
Sensitivity is adjustable as pilot gains flight skills.

Landing Gear: Duraluminum SnapGear Quick Landing Gear Mounts
lock in place with a snap and provide the strongest landing gear
of any trainer, also easily removeable

Aileron Control: Single standard size servo, wings are built with
dual aileron servo trays for future upgrades as skills increase,
can also be equipped with flaps

Tail Mounting: EasyAlign System guides parts into place automatically
in perfect alignment without tools

Propeller: 11x5 nylon, black in color with painted tips to aid
visibility-available separately, HCAA3744

Building Time: Ready to fly in only 20 minutes


Tower 46 trainer

Pre-Installed Tower .46 Engine, Fuel Tank, Fuel Tubing and Tower
4TH 4-channel Radio System into the Pre-Covered Fuselage.
Separate radio manual not included

Pre-Covered Wing Halves w/Metal Dowel Rod Joiner and Nylon Straps
Pre-Covered Bolt-Together Tail Sections w/Hardware
Wire Landing Gear w/Mounting Straps, Wheel Collars, and screws
Three 2-3/4" Foam wheels; One for nosewheel, and Two for mains.
One 2" Nulon Spinner
One 10x8 Top Flite Wood Propeller

SPECS: Wingspan: 62"(1575mm)
Wing Area: 680 sq in(44dm2)
Wing Loading: 19 oz/sq ft (58 g/dm2)
Fuselage Length: 51" (1295mm)
Weight: 5.75 lbs (2610g)
Center of Gravity: 3-5/8" back from the leading edge
Airfoil: Flat-Bottom High-Wing

REQUIRES: Misc. Items: Glow Fuel, Phillips Head Screwdriver, Pliers, Glow
Starter and Field Equipment.


Avistar RTF Trainer

Select Series Airplane Comes with Pre-Installed .40LA Engine and
Futaba 4VF Radio System.

Fuselage: Pre-Covered in MonoKote & Pre-Assembled Sheeted Box Style.
Wing: Pre-Covered in MonoKote w/Ribbed Balsa, Semi-Symmetrical
Airfoil That Joins Together with a Metal Dowl Rod and Nylon Straps.
Tail Sections are Solid Balsa and are Pre-Covered in MonoKote.
90% Pre-Assembled, All Wood, Ready-To-Fly Kit.
20 Minutes Assembly Time.

lablkilz699

Alright, thanks a lot guys for all the quick responses! Amazingingly fast. I think I neglected to mention I have actually flown a little (what you veterans would probably considered a toy) electric plane my friend has, quite a few times before. WOW I feel like an idiot now, haha. I probably use it more than he does because hes more into the r/c cars. I just had never built one before. A REAL ONE, as in gas powered (no offense to electric guys), dosen't look like its floating in the air instead of flying...etc... Its preatty easy to fly and land once you get a little bit of a feel for it, so I decided that since the guy said you could throttle down preatty well on the super sportster without it dropping like a stone in order to get used to it, that it was a good KINDA second plane. This probably still isn't the type of trainer you would all reccomend but I think I might as well hold onto this plane I bought because A.) I'm about 60% done with building it already (something tells me they wont take it back) I jsut couldnt resist waiting to start and B.) Because it's already a big enough hassle to get over to the hobby store...I dont think "Hey mom/dad can we go return this plane I have been whining about getting for weeks" will go over well. My main problems now are just what specific products do you reccomend for this plane. Engine...kinda jumped the gun on this one already too...I got the O.S. Max .46 FX for $68. Apparently this is a good deal according to a few differnt guys there. Even if its not the Chevy 454 of airplane motors, as long as it will work, I dont really care. Any tips on installing things, or secrets to building, or products you swear by (affordable ones) would be appriciated. Thanks a lot for all this quick help everyone. I will have more specific questions as I go along I think...

Campy

My Feedback: (1)

The OS 46FX is an EXCELLENT engine. The price you paid for the FX is exceptionally good, especially if it is new. That engine will fly any 40 size trainer out there with authority and it will also haul the Super Sportster quite well. The Super Sportster will make a decent second plane. It would not be one of my primary choices for a second plane, but it will work well.

I use 11x6 or 11x7 APC props on my 46 FXs for general sport flying. If you are going to put this engine in a trainer initially, I suggest using an 11x6 MAS prop initially. Once you get used to the plane and flying glow, change over to an APC 11x6 or 11x7 for added performance.

lablkilz699

Yeah they said the same things about the engine. What is the difference between the FX and the LA? One of the workers seemed to be very convinced the FX was better for some reason.

DBCherry

My Feedback: (4)

The FX is an ABC engine (Aluminum piston in a Chrome plated Bronze sleeve) with the crank riding on ball bearings. The LA series are non ABC bushed engines. There's no comparison in power and performance, the FX wins hands down.

Be very careful with the Sportster. It will fly nothing like a small electric. It will be about 10 times as fast, and will cover about 20 times as much space (in half the time). Lose orientation for a second or two and it's history, unlike a slow flying more forgiving electric.

You also don't want to go back to your parents and say, "You know that plane I whined about for weeks? Well I just turned it into a pile of sticks." [&:]

Get an instructor.
Dennis-

jwalsh1

The FX has a ball bearing in the front supporting the prop shaft whereas the LA has just a (I think brass) bushing. The ball bearing has a lot less friction and will in general last longer and even provide a little more power to the prop.

DBCherry

My Feedback: (4)

Oh, and as to your Chevy 454 analogy. The FX in the Sportster will be more like a fuel injected 327 in a 62 Corvette.

That electric you flew? Kinda' like one of those motorized scooters you see kids riding. [X(]
Dennis-

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

You could always finish building the plane, then get an Electric to learn to fly so you will be ready to fly it before you crash it.

Some of those electrics are pretty tough (ask how I know ) and can take a lot of "hard" landing.

lablkilz699

Yeah, thats basically my plan now. Thanks for clearing up the engine question also.

And about the toothpicks...your dead on, that would be a very bad thing to tell them about.

I dono if any of you have actually built this one and remember, but did you have trouble keeping the wooden pieces glued to the landing gear wheel pant? any techniques on this? or a stonger glue or epoxy u know of?

Also...any specific radios you suggest they would have at hobbytown usa?

DBCherry

My Feedback: (4)

I'd forget the wheel pants, especially flying off grass. they drag too much and can cause real problems. (I put the pants on my first Sportster and on it's first two landings, which were pretty smooth, the pants kicked up through the covering on the wing. [:@] )

If you can afford a few extra bucks the Futaba 6 EXA is a decent computer radio to start, if money's an issue, I'd go with a basic 4 channel radio for now. You can fly any number of sport type planes without a computer radio, and on four channels. I didn't have a computer radio, or use more than four channels for my first 6 or 7 years; that's about 8 planes. (Still have a couple of them. )
Dennis-

Teresa

I would say the big thing about picking a radio is find who ever might be training you and get the brand that they have. We sat around for weeks when we were new waiting for someone to show up with JR....seemed noone had them. So we bought our own buddy box (probably not an option on a tight budget, but way cheaper than replacing the plane). Now 2 years later seems to be more JR showing up at the field and hubby has strated doing a bit of training with the buddy box. So check around at your club before you make an ultimate decision of which brand of radio to go with.

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

Good advice. Make it a computer radio if you can.

lablkilz699

DO most radio's come with preatty much everything...? like batts. servos, reciever, wires, basically whatever you need to hook it up? This one below look to come with everything you could think of, while the other ones dont show anything. It does say "surface" while some others say "aircraft". Does this matter?



http://h1071867.hobbyshopnow.com/pro...prod=AIR90400A

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

Surface radios are for cars and boats and should not be used for aircraft. Most clubs will not allow you to use a surface radio to fly a plane and your radio will not with an instructors radio at the field.

Once again I offer you this article.
[link=http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=65]Don't buy a standard radio[/link]

If you are flying an aircraft, you need an aircraft radio. In the US, that would be on 72 MHz.

If you want to go cheap on the radio, the most vital part of your flying experience, then may I suggest the Hitec Laser 4
http://www.servocity.com/html/4-ch_l...m_systems.html

If you are willing to stretch a bit, this is a better choice - The Hitec Flash 5
http://www.servocity.com/html/5-ch_f...m_systems.html

Another Step up into a VERY capabable sport radio that will probably carry you for a long time - Futaba 7C
http://www.servocity.com/html/7ca_transmitter.html

Finally, a radio system that will probably carry you all the way through your flying career - Futaba 9C
http://www.servocity.com/html/9ca_systems.html

The article cited above explanes why these are recommended.

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

On another point, whether you are trying to teach yourself or are working on practicing what
your instructor taught you, situations do arise that can cost you your plane.
Here is a device that might help you through those early flights and might
help your plane make it to old age, the FMA Co-Pilot.

New it costs about $100. That's about the price of a smashed starter plane.
This should help a new flyer get through those early flights with minimal
damage. You just let go of the sticks and the co-pilot brings the plane to
level flight in 1 second.

Backyard Flyer Product review
http://www.backyardflyer.com/BY/articles/co_pilot.asp
Product Review
http://www.fmadirect.com/support_docs/item_1040.pdf
Product Description
https://www.fmadirect.com/site/Detai...m=1489§ion=20


FMA Co-Pilot Flight stabilization system - $99
https://www.fmadirect.com/site/Detai...m=1489§ion=20
Co-Pilot with receiver $180 - may have extra features - not sure
https://www.fmadirect.com/site/Detai...m=1722§ion=29

Available with 5 or 8 channel 72 MHZ receiver, or requires 72 MHz radio
system. Won't work with 27 MHZ equipment.
Also available on 35, 36, 50 and 53 mhz.

If you are starting on a plane with a supported radio system, this might be a
good investment.