i like the video,but wouldn't a trainer be a better choice???

john

The safety stuff bothered me too. I also think that we need to stop telling people the elevator makes the plane go up. The elevator changes the attitude of the plane in the pitch axis, but thrust makes the plane go up.

Also, the receiver should never be on when the transmitter is off. It's not as big of a deal with dual-conversion but having the receiver on by itself is wrong.

I did like the graphic representations of movement about the axis. I think the video is a great start, but could stand some new footage and more editing tweaks to make it really first rate. Good job overall

For the beginner who's never before seen a model plane fly, much less actually flown one, the elevator makes the plane go up.

Another reason we chose the Edge was because the control surfaces are very big, so it's easier to tell which controls do what. Also the Edge looks cooler than the "Ugly Boxes".

I'm honestly not trying to bash this thread. I think its a great thing that you're doing. Being mostly self taught, I wished there were more free vids out there when I was learning, which I still am. As everything you can never stop learning. But the "ugly boxes" comment I have to reply to. This is what I learned on mostly, and I certainly wouldn't call it an "ugly box". I think its a rather nice looking plane. Also, the control surfaces aren't that small either. Anyway, I'm all for what you're trying to accomplish. The responses in this thread you are getting are just good suggestions. IMHO BTW that's not my plane (its from towers website), the wing is trashed, needs rebuilding. Just another example of learning w/o an instructor

I simply believe that if we train people we should give them correct information from the beginning. Too many beginners and intermediate flyers believe the elevator makes the plane go up and end up in perpetual stalls because the plane is sinking and they pull back even harder because somebody told them the elevator makes the plane go up.

Anybody who has the aptitude to fly an R/C plane in the first place should be able to understand the concept of the elevator changing the attitude of the plane but that it won't necessarily make the plane go up. It's not exactly the same category of explaining nuclear fission.

"I also think that we need to stop telling people the elevator makes the plane go up. The elevator changes the attitude of the plane in the pitch axis, but thrust makes the plane go up."

Cafeenman, I dont' understand your logic here. I'm glad you were not my instructor. I agree that it's not nuclear fission, but it is common sense. The control surfaces on the rear of the plane are commonly referred to as the horizontal stabilizer and the "elevator". I wonder why they call it an "elevator"? Hmmmm, what does a real "elevator" in a building do? Why, it goes up and down doesn't it? Maybe the elevator on an airplane should be called the "thruster"?

Let's see.........how should I take off with my plane? According to your theory, since thrust makes the plane go up, to take off you would just keep advancing the throttle until the plane leaves the ground? Wouldn't it be a little easier to just ease back on the elevator by giving it a little "up" input? And how do you do your loops? More throttle? I do mine by managing the "elevator". Is it changing the pitch? Certainly. But it is also making the plane go "up", unless you've got a different definition for what up is.

Let's say that you're flying along nice and level at half throttle. Without touching the throttle you put in a little "up" elevator. What's the plane going to do? My guess would be that it would go "up" or climb. Taking the same scenario, without touching the elevator, you put in a little thrust by advancing the throttle. What's the plane going to do? Maybe go up a little, but come on................is that how you would teach someone to fly?

I agree that stalls present an entirely different concept and one that should be taught routinely to beginners. As part of my learning process, my instructor used to get me up nice and high and tell me to cut the throttle to idle and then have me work on keeping the plane nice and level and not stalling. That's a lot of work for a beginner, but it's a great learing drill. Once you learn how to keep the plane level without any throttle, you understand much better how to recover from a stall. A plane in a stalled condition is different from one that is flying, and that is not nuclear fission either.

Cafeenman is correct on this one Cougar, go ask your instructor again for clearification. Elevator changes pitch and makes the nose of the plane go up or down if that makes you feel better about the name. Without thrust (the engine) you can point the nose up and the plane ain't going anywhere. The better explanation for the beginner is that to gain altitude you add throttle with the nose of the plane up. To loose altitude decrease throttle with the plane level or slightly down attitude, that way you won't gain speed on a landing approach.

The video is well done and was a lot of work. If you guys want to tweak it with some of the suggestions here that great but I'm sure beginners will appreciate it and gain from watching it "as is". It's not a video about choosing a plane or starting a plane so the defiencies mentioned about those areas don't really apply in my mind. Nice job.

If Cafeenman wants to get that "technical", then he is also incorrect.

If the "pitch" of the airplane is downward then more thrust makes the plane go down, not up.

So if you are trying to make this into a "Profesional" explanation, The elevator along with thrust controls the climb of an airplane.

I guess if you want to really get technical the roll, yaw, and pitch plus thrust determines if the plane is climbing.


If the plane is on its side (Knife Edge Position) thrust plus rudder makes the plane climb.

Personally I like the original explanation as it is much easier for the beginner to understand that elevator makes the plane go up and down. If the plane is flying at a reasonable constant speed and upgright, this is completely true. The beginner doesn't need to know nuclear fision to grasp this concept.


Wings

i am a beginner and it all made sense to me, Question, do you cut throttle before or after you have landed the plane? What i belive you do, or what i would do, is to keep the throttle on untill i am down just incase i make a mistake so i can open it back up and have another try.

You "cut the throttle" when you are near the ground. However, for most, this means that you bring the engine to idle. I suspect you were thinking the term meant shutting off the engine.

I will do a paint drawing to explain the elevator thing

Yes i thought that he ment shut the engine down. All this new jargon i need to learn.

As I remember from the text books, lift makes a plane "go up". Changing the pitch of the aircraft using the elevator simply changes the lift produced by the wings by changing the angle of attack. Saying thrust makes a plane "go up" is a fallacy in a sense. You can still climb at idle throttle, albeit for a limited time.

Of course one can argue that thrust makes and F-18 climb vertically, but this is not what is being discussed.

Gliders can go up too, not much thrust in them.

Well, when you learn to really fly you will begin to understand what some of the people here are trying to explain to the author of the video.

Yes, you can just line up with the runway and cut the throttle as soon as you reach the edge of the runway and pray your speed is slow enough that you won't run out of of track.

The right idea is that the throttle determines your altitude and the elevator determines your speed. When you understand that, then you will be able to perfect very smooth landings. The basics is that you use your elevator to adjust the attitude of the plane, which in turn manages how much lift (or lack of) your plane will have. More lift will translate into less speed (throttle being constant). Less lift will translate into more speed (again throttle being constant).

While approaching a runway, beyond simply lining up with it, keeping a relatively level or slightly nose-up attitude and using your throttle to control your altitude, you can either choose to pass over the runway by keeping the plane from "falling" or as you reduce the throttle on your approach (while maintaining attitude/pitch with the elevator), your throttle will determine the rate of the "fall". Instead of correcting your altitude with the elevator, you simply give a bit more or a bit less throttle to maintain the appropriate approach altitle/glide-scope... If you look like you are going to be too short to hit the runway, more throttle will lend way to smoothen out your approach rather than trying to correct your altitude with your elevator surfaces. The same applies on takeoff but it less obvious since you really only need to worry about getting off the ground and generally won't bounce up and down on the runway like you might do while landing.

So when you learn to "really" fly, you will understand that throttle management is a big part of a successful/smooth/jaw dropping landing. The throttle is not an On/Off control.

Did you make this movie in PA? PM me to eply because ill probably forget this forum. Anyway, great trainer video and not mention ,FREE! Gave me some useful tips which ill use on my first maiden.

Thanks

Dang.... I thought the video was going to be a comedy.

Well you're right that I was wrong. I can't believe I said "thrust makes the plane go up." I know better than that. I was thinking in terms of landing where airspeed (thrust) control altitude and elevator controls attitude which isn't true either. Thrust controls airspeed which in turn determines how much lift the wing creates along with the attitude of the wing.

Lift is obtained by moving a lifting surface through the air.

This statement makes no sense at all. Thrust pulls the airplane through the air which allows the flying surfaces to work.

And this is why I say we should teach people correctly to begin with. Once somebody learns the wrong answer they perpetuate it as a truth even though it's wrong.

If we're talking about an aircraft that's flying rather than being pulled solely by the engine then lift is the answer again. It's not the elevator.

Telling people that the elevator makes the plane go up is basically teaching them how to make a bad situation worse when at low airspeed. I hear it all the time at the field... "But I was holding the elevator up and it still smashed into the ground." Umm... yes. We call that a stall.

I'd like to hear how you explain this please.

If the fuselage sides can create enough lift then the plane can fly knife edge. Rudder control the attitude.

Lift, gravity, thrust and drag aren't all that difficult to understand and if somebody can't grasp the concept then they probably shouldn't be flying something deadly.

Lift = Go up
Gravity = go down
Thrust = go forward
Drag = hold back

I don't understand nuclear fission, but then it's not part of aerodynamics. When I took basic ground school to fly full scale, the basic forces on an aircraft were covered the first day. I guess they didn't think a rank beginner would have much trouble with it. But they didn't teach me that the elevator makes the plane go up.

CafeenMan,

I know you mean well and I don't want to get into a pi$$ing match with you.

I fully understand fluid dynamics as I had a couple semesters of it and this is basic,


Attitdue, not pitch, and with that correction it makes pefect sense.


For example. Knife edge position. Every thing else constant, more rudder along with more thrust causes the plane to go UP. Elevetor would make the plane go side to side reletive to the ground in that situation.

If the plane was half way between the knife edge and horinzontal (change in ROLL) then it woudl be a combination of elevator, rudder and thrust that would determinb climb rate.


Of course lift controls the climb of an airplane, thats common sense. But what controls the lift? Would it be the elevator and speed?

I think so.

Hey guys, author here.

Sorry to break up the discussion real quick, but I need some help. My website will be expiring on April 11, at which point the movie will no longer be available. If anyone wants to download it and upload it to their own site for me, it would be helpful. I can change the link on the first post when this occurs.

Thanks! -Andrew

Airfoil, wing planform (aspect ratio, sweep, etc.) angle of attack (which is controlled by elevator), airspeed (controlled by thrust), etc.

Good job,
But a couple of things i noticed:
Now, this maybe because im paranoid as
I have a had a recent prop strike:

I heard no comment about safety, now we brits
are very safe (mostly cos of BMFA guidelines)
You have too much infront of the prop, you get no
help for others at your club, your holding plane + tranny
looks abit dodgy!

What are you doing so close to the road???
You need instructions for startup.

Well, i understand why americans dont take safety of rc aircaft seriously.

btw, if you need a minor host, i got a sever at URI.

Yes, you are paranoid. Just kidding. The pilot does not normally rush his routine like this, but we had to in order to keep the viewer from getting bored. The sequence probably does not bore most R/C fliers, but it would bore someone with little interest. It was already longer than I had hoped. The movie is not about starting, no information is given, so we cannot expect people to learn from his direct actions.

The road is a small access road onto the field. We were flying where everyone else did.

And just to add in a bit of culture clash , that was Valley Forge National Park, where Gen. George Washington camped with his troops during our Revolutionary War against "you brits".

No hard feelings, of course. Thanks for the comments Volkan! -Andrew

Of the above mentioned, which does the pilot have the contol of changing during flight?



So wouldn't it come down to the pilot contols lift by controling elevator and throttle?



Partially correct. Lift is the answer, and lift is proportional to angle of attack, which is controlled by the elevator.


It IS the elevator along with throttle that controls lift. Which is all I was saying to begin with.

Which is absolutely wrong. The wing is the "plane" part of airplane and coincidentally the part that creates lift. You know... planing through the air and all that.

If it were true that the elevator and thrust were what create lift then I've been wasting time building wings all these years only to find out that they have no useful purpose.

Instead I could build a fuselage with four elevators at 90 degrees to each other mounted on the end of a fuselage, put a motor in it someplace and call it a rocket.