Hello RC Universe! I've been a long time lurker and have always enjoyed these forums. I recently took the plunge and bought myself a pretty standard starting package:

-Great Planes PT40 Kit
-Futaba 6EXA Starter Kit
-OS .40LA
-Most of the needed tools
-G2 Lite Flight Simulator
-AMA membership

Today was my first attempt at Monokote-ing. It didn't turn out too bad, if I do say so myself

I do have a question for you all: I've been practicing with the PT40 in the simulator, and am now to the point where I can reliably takeoff, land and even execute a few aerobatic moves. If I can takeoff and land without incident in G2, do you think I will have the same success in real life out of the gate? Assuming all weather conditions are the same, of course... I'm starting to feel a bit confident that my first time out isn't going to result in a busted plane... is my confidence justified??

PS: I fully intend on flying with a trainer, so not to worry. I'm just wondering how true to life the sim PT will be/is to the real deal.

My first flight was on a different plane than the one I flew on the sim, but there is one factor that isn't easy to relate until you've been there. The moment your pride and joy leaves the ground and is airborne, be prepared to go slightly brain dead as you stand in awe as you watch your plane fly.

Before you take off, and after, keep reminding yourself to fly the plane.

You'll find that there's quite a number of things a sim doesn't do compared to actually being there.

Take offs, for example - a trike gear plane (like the GP PT-40) is very likely to weave/track - especially if you are taking off from grass. Many beginners stand behind their plane when taking off (obviously if it is safe to do so) to straighten the take off.

Also, depending on the ground you are flying from, turbulence is another factor the sims don't always manage. Our strip has a funny "bump" caused by some air pocket at the threshold, which can cause beginners to neutral the elevator (or even push forward), leading to a rough (or damaging) landing.

But the sims can assist with getting your brain to get used to stick movement (you are using a Tx on the sim?). I'ld say that you'll find basic circuits on a calm day are pretty similar to the sim, but apart from that, there's too many variables at play.

c4 provided a decent explanation, especially in then last paragraph.

While some sims are good at recreating most of the flight characteristics, like Real Flight, there are too many variables in real life that the sim can not reproduce. There's one thing that no sim reproduces, and that's the "EDF" (emotional debt factor) of flying the real thing. (Time involved in building + cost of components increases this factor.)

We all react differently to putting the real plane in the air, but almost everyone panics a bit, in a way you just don't with he sim.
Dennis-

Do your first few flights with a competent instructor on a buddy box. Even if you can fly and land the beast, the real thing is sufficiently different that an experienced pilot will be a great help. My be it that you will solo in fairly short order. There are lots of other things to learn as well that are not covered by the sim:
1) Preflight check - get someone who knows what they are doing to check it over thoroughly.
2) Aircraft, radio maintenance
3) Field rules and safety, also frequency control
4) Starting and tuning the engine
5) Maiden flight - trimming. Very difficult if you haven't done it before with a real plane.

Have fun!

Ross

The biggest thing a sim can't duplicate is the "Pucker Factor". That basically means how nervouse you get when your beautiful new airplane is in harms way (I.E. "Flying").

Sims are great for getting you brain around things like flying toward yourself, and just generally getting familiar with the sticks. But just as driving an indy car on a sim won't get you ready to drive at Indy, I feel the RC sims are a great way to get comfortable with the controls, but don't expect to fly the plane just like you fly the sim.

Do you have windy conditions set on the SIM? Moving air is the biggest challenge you will face on the field. Learning how to deal with that is hard on a sim, but you can practice if you turn up the wind and gust factors on the sim.

Also, flying into the SUN is .... different ... in real life. You should avoid it but sometimes you can't.

Having other planes around you is also distracting, and having other people watching. There is a lot a SIM can't do for you, but it is a great training tool. Reset on the SIM makes it easy. Reset on the field ... not so much!

Get a coach, or an instructor if you can. Even if it is just for the first day. Stuff happens. If your plane is not made of EPP Foam, a small mistake can turn into a very sad experience.

Once you get thorugh the first 2-3 take offs and landings your SIM experience can kick in and help you progress faster than you would have done without it.

The sims certainly at least give you an idea of what to do. The PT40 on the sim is pretty accurate once the plane is in the air. On the ground the sim is nothing like at the field, especially if its a grass runway. You will need high throttle just to get the plane to start to move and then you have to back off the throttle to taxi. The plane will then start to change direction all over the place as the wheels hit different levels of grass, small ruts, ect. BTW, I would see if you can send the engine back and exchange it for a 46. A 40LA is a very weak engine and the cost difference by moving up to a 46 is small and well worth it!

As was stated by the others there are some factors the sims don't present you with. I would have some friends come over to help you get ready for the real thing.....

Have one friend talk in your ear like you'll get at the field when someone comes over while your flying. Then have them wave thier hand in front of your face to simulate someone walking in front of you to retrieve thier plane (poor field ettiquite). Now for the pucker factor that Minn mentioned....have one of them stand on a table over your plane with instructions to jump on it if you crash.

On a serious note....stand up while you fly the sim as you would at the field. Do you live in Los Angeles near the Basin? I'd be happy to help you out for a couple of lessons because after the sim practice that's all it usually takes before someone can solo. You don't get the perspective of the real thing from the sim to be able to line up with the run way, especially if there are other people flying which will make you nervous. The learning curve is dramitically shorter though having practiced like you have. Good luck!

And in addition to the pucker factor mentioned by MinnFlyer there's also the potential of stage fright! It's not easy to stand in front of possibly as many as 50 people on a Sunday (simpathetic as they may be) and potentially look like an idiot. To be honest, after about five sessions with an instructor I was soloing and after that I preferred to be flying on "off" days when there'd only be a couple of other guys at the field. I finally found true peace and the joy of flying on that day that I was the ONLY person at the field (warning: this can be dangerous so extra caution is needed). Only after I started feeling comfortable flying without a crowd did I start coming out and flying on Sundays. Oh yeah, and in the Sim there aren't three other guys up in the air with you all with trainers that look just like yours!

The first time I flew my second plane (a Seagull Spacewalker II) on a Sunday in front of full house of club members (to whom I was the newbie Gaijin from American to boot and therefore, in some small way, representing all American flyers) my hands were shaking so badly that I could hardly control the plane -- and was lucky not to have dropped the Tx. But after a couple of solo trips to the field during the week, I've calmed down some.

On the bright side, yes, training on RF will definitely shorted your learning curve. I found my RCM trainer did in fact fly very much like the PT40 in RF. And I wasn't fighting the sticks. What's different though is that you are now in a REAL 3-D world and things like depth perception and altitude estimates really do matter. I ended up landing my plane on the downslope of the hill at the head of the runway at least twice because I just hadn't realized the plane was really that low.

All I can say is that G2 is only good for orientation (purely my personal opinion), I cannot land on it properly but I do lovely landings on a real plane. Also, with your first flight there is no screen to look at, its a whole new world to be immersed in.

Wow guys, thanks for the response! I guess I shouldn't be suprised... everyone here always seems really willing to help.

Ok, so I'll take my G2 results with a grain of salt; that is, I'll continue to practice, and pay special attention to stick manipulation. I really have enjoyed using the actual Tx that I will be using out there... one really nice feature of the G2.

BasinBum: I'm in NorCal... East Bay area actually. I wish we were closer! There are two clubs right here local (the East Bay RC and Livermore Flying Electrons). Both are accepting new applications. I'm not sure which one would be better to join. None of my friends are into RCing, so I really don't have an "in" into either. Have you (or anyone else) heard or dealt with either? I'm sure both are a good choice.

Thanks again!

Jason, you could try an RCU Member search by area to see if anyone is close to you.

When I was in college, my room mate and I took a golf class. We started indoors with light weight plastic golf balls. After several weeks of training with these, most people got quite good. Eventually, it was time to go outside and hit real golf balls. It was almost like starting over again. Took a couple weeks to get back to where we were with the plastic balls. Then we made the jump from driving range to a real course. Same drill, had to relearn the basics.

What's the moral of the story? You'll have similar experiences going from a simulator to a real plane. The time on the simulator was not wasted, but do not expect to be able to solo on your first flight

Jason,
With a club name like "Flying Electrons", they may be an electrics only club, or at least predominantly electric. You may want to check both clubs out by visiting first.

Nothing wrong with electrics, but some electric flyers/clubs don't want "slimers" around.
Dennis-

Heh very well could be! However, I think its more a reference to Lawerence Livermore Lab that is so close by... FYI the Lab is where some of the country's most secret nuclear/laser research takes place. In fact, shortly after 9/11 it was listed in the top 10 ten terrorist targets in the US []

I forgot to ask... are the limits to what G2 can teach me, specific to G2? In other words, would any other sim teach "more"? I get the general feeling that the answer is not signifantly, but I just wanted to check.

Also, I tried a member search, and it seems the best I can do is localize by state. There are over 9000 folks registered. Is there a better way to do a member search?

So lets call it like I see it. What you think you want to do is one reason why we have "ARF's." If you bought an ARF and went out to fly it after you used a simulator a few times. it will be disappointing when you stuff it but not all that bad because the plane came in a box almost done. No great loss, right?

But you have bought a kit and spent alot of time in it and it becomes part of you. The effect of you stuffing this plane beyond belief will last to a point of giving up the hobby.
The simulators are nice but get an instructor, If you don't I can promise you your first flight on this plane will be your last.

At the beginning level the three most common sims G2, AFP and Reflex are all pretty equal and worthwhile. I would not recomend spending to much time on aerobatics untill you get a bunch of time on the real thing. More important would be using the rudder. To do that setup a cross wind of about 7 mph and try to consistantly land on the runway from both directions. Much harder than doing loops and rolls.

Stu: There is some validity to what you point out. However, I really enjoy the build process. That is what sparked this whole thing in the first place; I got tired of building plastic models that sit on the shelf and collect dust. Will I be ticked if I crash my plane first time out? You bet. However, I've so enjoyed the building, I am hooked for good.

And anyway, I wont be flying without an instructor. I've got far too much to learn to think otherwise.

Thanks Basin. I will set up G2 like that and practice away!

Jason,

I was a member of the Livermore club years ago untill I left in 1995. I understand the facility has been enlarged since then. Back when I was there, I don't recall any electric models at that field. Too new a technology, I guess. I still have my club hat, though, just in case.

As to the equipment you have selected, it should serve you well for your training. Someone is always going to tell you to get a bigger engine, fancier radio, different trainer, whatever. And you can surely do that if you want. But not neccessary. It looks like you are off to a good start. Good luck with your training and welcome to a great hobby.

The simlulator will help you get a good grip on whats going on. Mainly the control reversal bit but don't go up by yourself. Once you start with an instructor who hopefully has his act together, you need to disciline yourself with basic traffic pattern technique as in the full scale. Not this flying all over the darn place but basic traffic patterns. Takeoff, crosswind, downwind, base, final and landing. A nice rectangular pattern. To many instructors let students go all over the place flying virtually out of control.