[size=7]I was looking over towerhobbies.com to look for some good RTF glow engine trainers. When i added the price tag up in the shopping cart, i was amazed at the price. I accidentaly looked over onto sailplanes and realized the prices are a few hundred bucks lower when paired up in a combo. ( well maybe not a few hundred, but at least a hundred dollars). I then remembered looking at the sailplanes at hobby-lobby.com and the reviews for them. One person mentioned you dont need an instructer to learn how to fly because of the massive wingspan. Now, i know you will probably shower me with the idea of getting an instructor, and i probably will, so calm down. I just want to know if sailplanes are better trainers than for example the Hobbico SuperStar Select MKII, or the alpha 40...

Thank you, and please if you have any suggestions on great cheap sailplanes, i will be grateful for them.

Yes- A sailplane can be a good trainer. My first RC toy was a sailplane and it took a holy beating (self taught)... But it gave me the skill to step up to four channel model. I would still recommend some help if you get a 72" electric. (its cheaper in the long run) or just until you get a handle on landing and flying toward yourself...

If money is an issue download FMS and buy a PC gamepad and practice flying on the sim.. The sim does not come with very many gliders but I can e-mail you one that is similar to anything you buy from tower.... happy shopping...

Thank you for your insights. I however did some more research and was wondering if you have had any experiences with the Great PLanes Spirit RTF sailplane. If you have any feedback on the plane, please include it in your respnse, for i am having trouble finding some reviews, although i forgot to check this sight for any.

Plane available on this sight:
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXMK19&P=0

I also found what i think is a better plane for it has an electric motor in case of dead wind. Is the Goldberg Electra any good. I like the fact it has a motor so even if there is no wind, i will still be able to have fun. Now, im not sure how exactly sailplanes work, because i heard something about thermal powar or something, which i believe does sound pretty entertaining. If anyone will like to quickly explain this technique of power, im all ears.

Plane available (Electra):

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXELP1&P=0

Thermal flight is when you are already airborne and find a column of rising air and circle in it. Thermals happen as the ground warms and the warm air rises

If you have ever seen a hawk, buzzard, etc... circling and gaining altitude, most likely they are riding a thermal air mass.

You still need some sort of way to get up in the air. A powered glider is just the thing. You hand launch it, use the motor to gain altitude, kill the motor and glide around. I see guys at our filed use the motor to get a lot of altitude, kill the motor and go where the hawks are circling and fly with them, it's also the coolest thing when the hawks come over to see what kind of bird that is (meaning the glider) and form up with it because the pilot found the thermal

You will know when you are in one as you will see the plane gain altitude and in a powerful thermal, you see that pretty quickly. The trick is to circle around inside the thermal. You can tell where the thermals outside bounderies are as you leave the edge, the plane starts to lose altitude. You then circle back 180 degrees to get back into it. Pretty soon you are making a circle. Watching the wingtipswill also tell you alot about the edge of the thermal

I may not be totally acurate here but it's a good start. I myself have never flown a glider but watching guys at our filed and know full scale gliders, I have picked up some tips on doing it. I have even considered the same Goldberg plane you are as I like Goldberg ARF's and own 2 of them myslef (An Ultimate Biplane and the Sukhoi SU26)

Samolot the Electra is a great model. As a matter of fact it was my first kit (now as an arf) it will be an easy build and as you said the electric motor will save you some $$ and get you started into the hobby. With a strong battery you can have allot of fun doing loops, rudder rolls, and even short inverted flights etc... Once you get more ambitious build a wing with ailerons and add that aspect of flying to your model. Or as bubbagates states learn the art of soaring- I have had flights up to an hour long with strong thermal conditions even with the heavy powered gliders.

A glider can train you to fly but it will teach you more about flying than any trainer can offer- Just get some assistance (i know you don't want a lecture) But I wouldn't feel good about giving advice at least saying this once or-twice. Also remember that it is tough to outgrow a glider or soaring for that matter.

I had no experience in RC when I was given a Dynaflite Wanderer for Christmas. I had no knowlege of any experienced RCers in the area so after hand launching down a big hill for a while, (being in Minnesota in January) I took it out on the middle of a frozen lake and flew my heart out. No thermals out there but more importantly no trees, people or anything expensive to apologize for. I used a hi-start for launch. By Spring, I was catching thermals empty lots outside of town and had rebuilt the nose three times, the left wing completely once, the right wing was repaired. I measured my success by the number of pieces I came home with. I also learned a lot about building, and covering that winter.

I graduated to a Kadet .40 trainer that summer, and incidentally got to know some guys at the local flying field who helped me make the transition to powered flight. Honestly I would have destroyed the trainer by now if it were not for the instructor. The trainer hangs in my office and is pristine except for a scar from my first botched solo takeoff. (The put fences around the pitts for a reason!)

Learning by myself with a glider was just fine. Pick one that is gentle and slow with a good amount of dihedral, strong and simple construction two channel. Stay away from anything over 2 meter, fiberglass, or high performance. And consider starting with unpowered flight first and adding power later. Simpler-er is better-er.

The guys at the field are more than happy to help though and will save you lots of repair time and give you more time flying. Ive made a lot of good friends there. Just be honest with yourself - if you dont like to spend an hour in the shop for every minute flying, then you need to grab a buddy box.

Incidentally I got my sailplane from a guy who was trying to learn without an instructor. He jumped immediately to a .40 sized trainer and got frustrated and tired of building. He gave me his new sailplane, radios, field box, and all his accessories. He has never flown again.

I have always favored a powered sailplane, electric or glow, for a first plane. They're slow enough to give the new pilot time to think, and the polyhedral wing is as close to self-correcting as it gets. When you get in trouble with one, just release the sticks for a second and it will usually stabilize itself. Saved me lots of times...

The Electra that's hanging on my shop wall is about to get an upgrade. I'm replacing the the Goldberg 550 motor with a geared Master Airscrew 500. I'm also going to take out the old AM Futaba with the speed control built into the receiver, replace the two servos with HiTec HS81's and go to LiPoly batteries. That is not going to be the cheapest thing I ever did but the airplane flys so well with the old stuff including a battery that weighs over 1#. I think it will be worth it. It is one sweet flyin' bird.

Samolot

I have been teaching RC since 1971 and I would say the choice of trainer depends on you and your goals.

If you are older, 50's and up or have very bad hand-eye coordination, try a glider, a powered sailplane or an old time free flight. If you are younger, especially a teenager, and you have normal to good hand-eye coordination from playing video games, they will bore you to death in a couple of weekends.

If you goal is sailplanes of electrics, they, by all means, start electric. If you want to fly power for scale, pattern, 3D or just sport, you need to start with a power plane.

My feeling is that gliders teach you bad habits for power flying. For example, you generally land a glider in a field. With a power plane you need to learn how to land on a runway, how to line up no matter what the wind. Also steering a sailplane is different. At high speeds you are about like a power plane except you normally have to hold the roll control in (aileron stick over) whereas with a power plane, you normally put in roll, center that stick and use elevator to hold the nose up. At very slow speeds like when you are stretching a glide to make a landing near yourself, the roll controls of a glider become less and less functional. Some times you have to hold down elevator to get the roll controls to work. An experienced flier will have no trouble with this, but these are bad habits to get into if you intend to go on to sport/acro/scale planes.

The great thing about RC flying is there are so many facets of the hobby you can specialize in. You must decide where you are going and plan for it.

The GLIDER is a good beginner's tool. The fact that it has to be taken UP to altitude is the hard part. Look closely at the picture. There is the SPIRIT 100 ARF and it is on a CRADLE on top of a carrier plane. GP offers a CRADLE for $18.00. If you can find someone with a suitable high wing plane this cradle will fit almost any model. The combo in the picture is used almost every week and it takes the GLIDERS high up, almost out of sight. This gives the beginning pilot a lot of time to practice for speed, orientation, etc. My students are able to guide the gliders for the very first time and get more or less 10 to 15 minutes' worth of flight. This method is about the best, in my experience. I have tried HiStarts, but this method goes highest than any of them.

good information here but reinterate the recommendation to use the simulator first! Then get some friendly help from someone with some experience. The glider with motor can be a good way to learn to fly but you must get the glider up into the air to take advantage of its slower flight and longer recovery time. Gliders are not always cheaper than the wonderfull complete packages conaining motor, plane, transmitter and plane since you need the plane, then motor, motor controllers, batteries, charger and plane. My first glider had a motor short out and burn up the plane before I got it down. A bad motor controller meant another $50 etc, etc. The FMS sim is free and will help you immensly, and help will be the lubricant to make your passage into success a reality.

gliders hardly teach bad habits , in fact they teach someone to fly "on the wing " rather than blast around depending on power only to get them out of tight spots. gliders can and are, spot landed all the time. consider that Germany had an extensive glider program prior to WWII and the pilots credit it with giving them superior skills.

I taught myself to fly R/C planes using gliders. A Sophisticated Lady and a Sig Riser 100. Both were fantastic planes. Actually I first tried to fly with a Duraplane since the now defunct LHS said gliders were not the best and I should get a powered plane. Well after about 15 crashes I shelved the Duraplane and built a glider. After about 5 or so flights I was flying around without crashing. A year or so flying the 2 gliders and I was able to quite easily fly the Duraplane. My 7 year daughter is learning to fly now and has an Aerobird Challenger currently. This summer we are thinking about building a Dynaflite Butterfly together for her to fly. Then she’ll get a 4 channel trainer once she can comfortably solo the Butterfly.

FWIW, I used hi-starts, hand launches and an .049 power pod. All worked well, but the power pod was used the most since I frequently flew from my parents front yard. The thermals are great in the winter time over poorly insulated houses. I could never get the Riser 100 more than about 150’ flying this way, but I could fly for hours from the heat escaping from those houses. Flying over houses is a bit risky, but I was 15/16 years old. At the time I did not care much, good thing is that nothing bad ever happened.

Are sailplanes any good as trainers? No good at all as float plane trainers.

You will probably learn quicker with a powered model. This is true for the experience i have at my club.

Re: ""RC is hours of relaxation punctuated by moments of stark terror." <Ya, its the sudden rush of excitment in between the calm that keeps me in this hobby! When things start to get too routine, I switch to teaching new flyers for a while. You never know what a new flyer is going to do next!!

I started my sailplane experience with an RTF and it has been wonderful. I
now have 7 thermal sailplanes and 3 slope planes, two discus launched gliders and one scale sailplane. I also have 5 electric parkflyers.

I don't work for any hobby company or distributor. I just want to help new glider pilots, who might not
want to build, to enter this wonderful part of the RC flying experience. I
enjoy my electrics but I LOVE my sailplanes. Perhaps you will have the same
great experience waiting for you.

The Spirit Select is a 2 meter starter sailplane that is completely assembled
with all the electronics installed. Unlike many of the RTF electrics that
come with dedicated 27 MHz radios, the Spirit Select includes a hobby grade 72
MHZ radio that you can use to fly other RC planes. I have flown other gliders
and parkflyers with mine. It is very easy to use.

Here is a link to the site where it can be purchased it for $150 complete!
About the same price as a 3 channel RTF electric plane.
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...I=LXVK55**&P=7

Here is a link to the ARF version where you can find links to two product
reviews. If you want to do some building, the ARF is the route. I didn't
have a hobby grade radio, so for about the same price as buying the radio and
the Spirit ARF, I got the radio and the plane ready to fly. For me that was
perfect.
http://www.greatplanes.com/airplanes/gpma1045.html

Once you get it out of the box there is very little to do. Bolt on the tail,
put in the batteries, balance the plane, check everything and you are done.
You don't even need to charge batteries because the radio and the receiver use
standard AA and AAA batteries. You can switch to rechargeable at any time,
but I flew mine on regular batteries for a whole season. They last a long
long time. I think I flew on one set of batteries from July 15 to the middle
of August when I had to change the transmitter batteries. The receiver
batteries lasted till the end of September. That was probably 75-100 flights.

The plane has spoilers built into the wings. Spoilers help you land the
plane in a small area. You don't have to set them up, but if you are flying
from a small field, the will be very useful. They are not functional when you
get the plane. The manual tells you how to set them up later and the radio
has an extra channel that will allow you to operate them. After about 50
flights, I enabled them to further my learning and flying experience. I think
they are a great addition and they were easy to add. Now I have
rudder/elevator AND spoiler controls. That is referred to as a RES class
sailplane.

I have 200+ flights on this plane. I have specked it out dozens of times and
have many flights in the 10-30 minute range. Many of those flights could have
been longer but I decided to bring the plane down. This plane has a
reputation of being a great thermalling plane and is capable of winning club
contests as you become experienced. This is a real sailplane and the design
won its class in the 1991 National competitions. Yet it is so easy to fly.
Perfect for a beginner.

Several other pilots in our club have purchased the Spirit Select and have
been very successful with it.

I definitely recommend the 2M Spirit Select as a first sailplane. There is
nothing to build, so you can put it up very quickly. And, if you do break
something, parts are readily available. If you already have a hobby grade 72
MHz radio, then you might prefer the ARF version, also highly recommended.

If you don't have a friend or a club where sailplanes are already flown, you
will want to have your own launcher. A short one, good for smaller fields,
called an up-start and can be purchasee for about $30.
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXE638&P=7

If you have a large field, a full size hi-start can be as little as $60.
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXE636&P=7

There are more expensive launchers out there, including electric winches, but
these are excellent to get started and will get you to an altitude where you
can learn to fly the plane and can learn to catch thermals. Hi-starts are
very easy to use, even if you are teaching yourself.

If you are interested in gliders/sailplanes but not flying them yet, you might
find this series of articles of interest.
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=23

If this RTF sailplane idea interests you, please ask any questions you like.
I would be happy to share more of my experiences.[/size]

The New Glider Pilot's Handbook

Welcome to the world of silent flight. If you plan to fly gliders and
sailplanes, whether slope or thermal, powered or pure, this series of articles
may be helpful in getting off to a good start. They are written with the new
glider pilot in mind. I hope you find them useful.

Getting Started in Sailplanes
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=36

Radio Systems Part 1 - Standard Radios
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=44

Radio Systems Part 2 - Computer Radios - The right choice for almost everyone
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=65

Sailplane Launching Systems
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=55

How to use a Hi-Start
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=52

Finding Lift
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=57

Sailplanes are Wonderful
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=18

Plane Locators & Battery Monitors
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=67

Additional Articles and Resources
http://www.coloradogliders.com/tools.htm#articles

RC Soaring Digest - online magazine
http://www.b2streamlines.com/RCSD.html

Read this next article only if you like to dabble in deeper technical stuff.
This article
is on advanced set-up of a full house sailplane. Definitely not something a
beginner, or even a many experienced sailplane pilot need to do. This is more
for competition pilots, but if you like to look at some of the advanced stuff,
this might be fun. It is a translation, so take your time as you read it.
http://www.gliders.dk/triming_and_se...der_wi_eng.htm

I invite others to post links to articles and resources that would be helpful
to new glider/sailplane pilots. Let's build a resource here that will help
new glider guiders get off to a good start.

Good luck new pilot and welcome to silent flight!