Hey 50+ years, We are still talking a trainer plane for a new guy. You are talking about how long you can thermal on a battery pack. How long did it take you to be able to get up to 30 minute flights??? If you think about it new flyers usually find a way to lose lots of altitude in a hurry. With glow power you can get throttle up and gain altitude in a fe seconds. An epowered glider will take much longer and use a bit of battery power each time. I have watched instructors use e powered planes for trainers and the flight times are almost always very short lasting around 5 minutes. The lack of power when the wind comes up is also evident. The instructor can usually compensate but it leaves the poor student standing there with nothing to do. E power can be a great alternative after you solo, but for basic training I am convinced that glow power is by far the best way to go! [8D]

Well, for myself, I've always wanted to get into rc but the cost and the learning curve always turned me off. I took a break from control line for many years and decided to get back into it. When I started looking around, I found how popular electrics had become. Although I knew fuel was my eventual goal, I figured buying an inexpensive park flyer would give me a little taste. I bought a Slo-V and have had a ball with it.....so much so that I've been accumulating all I need for a fueled plane. What really turns me off about electrics is the whole battery/charger thing. I know that its involved with fuel planes also but not nearly to the degree with the elctrics.

I recently visited a flying field and spoke with a fella that bought a new SE-5 ARF and converted it to electric.....he told me that he had about $500.00 in the motor, batts, and receiver alone...for myself, that doesn't make sense.

I'd encourage anybody that THINKS they want to get into rc to pick up an inexpensive park flyer, knowing that you won't get a real sense of what flying is all about.....shoot, I view my Slo-V as not a whole lot more than a powered kite, but it sure is fun and its done a lot to help me with the orientation thing and to teach me to control my thumbs... Just my opinion.

direct comparison with electric/glow as basic trainers , glow will win out. if on-going costs &other factors are considered , electric ,such as Electra compare very well.operating costs are low .I agree the set ups are more critical. if one were to fly a .40 glow job with 4 oz. tank, 30 engine etc -glow guys would cry foul! but to some extent thats what they are doing. gliders make great trainers & electric does that well. its clean, plane last long time (- you just cant beat that with glow) Freedom 20, astro 15 geared flies 7-8 min of spirited flight -without lipos & big buck set ups /. many times gas do not use all their flight time anyway.there are many ways to approach electric which makes it difficult to choose.

Well I have just recovered from my mistake on this subject.

I bought a "Sparky 400" electric to learn on last year.

Being an almost total begginer I wanted to get lots of stick time to get myself competent ASAP.

I very quicky got fed up with 10 minute flights and the lack of power, [] so I converted it to glow power with a little Thunder Tiger 09.

I can now fly it around for ages on one small(ish) tank full and really appreciate the extra power.

Actually 10 minutes of air time, then setup to land is considered standard. You also need fuel to taxi and a bit extra in case you need to around again. Six, 10 minute flights are considered safe for both the receiver and transmitter batterys. After that you better check them. [8D]

Yes sorry I should have made it clearer - What I was trying to say was that after a 10 minute flight I was left with a flat battery so either had to buy more packs or settle for 1 flight per session.

At least with the Glow motor, I just top up with fuel, then off again all evening.

Re: "At least with the Glow motor, I just top up with fuel, then off again all evening"< Thats why I suggest glow power over electric for training. Unless you want to buy 6 battery packs or recharge them after each flight. Not very convenient. Even a fast charge will take about 30 minutes to recharge. [8D]

electrics have a weight disadvantage,try to hover for any length of time with an electric.out in out though there are a lot of things contributing to the choices of either gas or electric,size of field,noise limitations,and namely cost.as for me i have flown both and like most here love the smell of nitro in the morning............you either invest in electric equipment or nitro,about half of the equipment is interchangeable.for learning to fly just my opinion but i think a gas 40 size trainer would be the best choice as far as time in learning goes.

Forestroke do you sell the Pop Angel?

Hi Ghost,

You could of course buy 3 or 4 batteries capable of a 8-20 minute flight each and either have them charged at home or at the field. With the ongoing cost of nitro/gas the upfront cost of the battery is negligible and swapping them out takes no more or less effort than refilling a slimer. Personally I like both. Prefer gassers to nitro but only for the convenience of buying fuel from the local servo. I think consideration to noise and size of aircraft should determine the appropriate power plant, but i lean to electric every time.

Hi All!
I have never owned an electric model, always IC. As a beginner however electric may be the best way forward as glow engines can be frustrating to get the hang of.

That said, if you join a club, which in my opinion you MUST do, the guys there will show you how to operate an IC properly.

This can be one of the most frustrating hobbies if you do not know someone who can help.

and Never, Never try to fly an aircraft without experience.....or an instructor!!

Welcome to one of the most enjoyable hobbies out there....i've been doing it over 26 years and it keeps getting better!

Have fun!

W

Hey Modeling is all about emulating full scale aircraft and when I see full scale planes flying around with electric power I will [ MIGHT} try one or I will just quit as I will be too old by that time.

You could actually fly a full scale airplane using an electric motor, but the extension cord would have to be reallllllllllllllly. long.

Bill,
WACO Brotherhood #1

Hey RCtrax, Heres a link for you. You might be quitting sooner than you think.
http://www.airventure.org/2007/4wed25/sonex.html

I have to throw in my recipe for the perfect starter plane. Lanier U2 foam hand toss glider- $20
OS .10 Glow engine- $55
Futaba 2 channel AM radio w/servos- $50
Fuel tank, engine mount, wheels, etc.- $25

I just cut out the rudder-elevator and hinge them. I use fish line for a pull-pull set up for the servos. They are big, (78" wingspan) and they fly nice and slow. Repairs are easy with epoxy or foam ca. It's still one of my favorite planes for nice, relaxed flying. Ross

everything said above is good advice, but think about this... what is more fun than burning fossil fuel? seriously, full size planes, cars, motorcycles, RC planes and just about anything else that burns fuel is fun!!

I started with the Super Cub RTF 159.00 in about a month of flying almost daily I learned alot. How a Hot Glue gun works. How long it takes to recharge a battery. How much wind you can fly in with it. Over 12mph is very challanging but alot of fun also. It also just had evevator and rudder control on one stick and the rudder is opposite stick from a glow. That was what cause me to crash my first glow on landing I tried turning on the ground with what was the rudder control of the Cub but was aliron on the glow and it did not turn. Also the Cub was slow about 49mph. A glow is much faster and you have to get used to the throttle responce. The other controls are about the same but the throttel down is alot slower and takes a sec or three for the engine to come back down to idle. Also you get bored with the trainer foamy pretty quick espessially when your watching all the glow planes. But they are messy and require cleaning. You have to have fuel, extra glow plugs, glow ignitor, Starter, glow wrench, (5/16) fuel pump (for putting fuel in plane) They also have a battery that has to be charged (not as often) but has to have a battery (runs the electronics servos) And there are some awsume elec. planes now. The Mini Funtana, The eratix, The Typhoon in my opinion is a great starter plane it will do anything a glow plane will do. Also with the glow plane the radios are a must. And if you don't want to loose one because of interference then Spectrum is the way to go. But then the recievers are about 100.00 each. If I were just starting the again I would start with the Typhoon. Get a good radio and it has plenty of power to hover or anything else you want to do with it. Also hot glue and foam compatable glue are about all you need to fix one of them after you crash. The glow planes we call splinter planes cause if you crash you pick up all the splinters and start over lol. Most guys have both I fly my elec. before my glow just to get in rythum of flying before putting the glow's in the air.

glow is messy... just makes it more manly. :-)

EP is really great fun ... I was having GP all this time and now its fully EP. Anything below 40 size is pretty affordable, once you go past 60 size you see the cost of batteries weighing you down. I have flown from small speed 400 planes to 90 sized planes and soon my 80" will be going up. For me its about convenience (basically, I am getting lazy). I love the response of an EP plane. Still much more fun than a GP unless you want to fly with a YS engine. I find that without the slime the planes are in a much better condition (again, I am lazy hence I am doing my best to justify EP).

Here are some pics of my EP planes, the Kyosho AgWagon is only running on a 3S set up. The CAP 232 is almost ready now, that one is a MidWest CAP 232 of 80". I hope she flies! If not I will be the laughing stock at the field.

when I started with powered planes(Cox control line,kits,and arf's) the only option was fuel powered engines.
the truth is battery's and engines are getting better all the time.
there not good enough for me to give up my glow engines, but there getting better,one of the appealing things about going to the field and flying for me, is the process of bolting the wing on,fueling the plane, and tuning the engine for flight.
its just not the same with electrics.
my knowledge is limited as far as the set up,but enough of our members have them to see what they are doing a few min. of flight followed by the recharging routine unless you have the extra $$ and can get more batterys.
with a glow plane its fill er up and fly,with non fossil fuel.
glow planes burn alcohol based fuel,not fossil fuel FYI.

FYI, methanol is, for all practical purposes, a fossil fuel. It's made from natural gas. Nitromethane also is ultimately made from petroleum as is the synthetic oil in model fuel. Castor oil is vegetable based however.
Ethanol is made from corn, not methanol. Glow engines burn methanol, not ethanol.

To be perfectly fair, I'll point out the fact that most electric power ultimately comes from fossil fuel also.

Last time I checked Lithium is a metal, but the battery packs would no doubt require some form of fossil fuel in their manufacturing process, and the electricity used to charge them would inevitably come from a fossil fuel.

Whilst methanol is largely sourced from Natural Gas, it can also be sourced from decaying organic matter.

If you like little airplanes, then electric is the way to go. But if you like larger models, then electric is too expensive. I like 60 size models. Glow offers more performance for less money in that class of airplane.

I've heard arguments both ways. I think the big difference is you are basically paying for the cost of about 200-300 flights up front with an electric, while with nitro, you can buy your fuel as you go. A Lipo battery pack lasts around 200-300 cycles... divide the cost of the batt pack by about 250, and you get your cost per flight. Compare that to the cost per flight for a nitro plane of similar size and performance, and I think you'll find the electric may be cheaper (although gasoline is probably the cheapest). Problem is... if you crash and trash your LiPo pack after say, 20 flights, then you only amortized the battery cost over 20 flights, instead of 250!

You can also factor in the cost of the electricity to charge your packs if you want (assuming you charge them off of a DC supply plugged into an outlet at home), but that should be minimal, if not negligible. For example, with a 6lb plane, you'd probably run around about a 600W power plant, and a 10 minute flight would burn 0.1kWh of electricity. It will take a little more than 0.1kWh to recharge the battery due to inefficiencies, but you get the idea...

I wasn't really tryin to ruffle any feathers with my comment about fossil fuel (although B.L.E. is right and that is what i meant in the first place about fossil fuel) but what i was really trying to say, is internal combustion on any scale is cool. just something about tuning carbs and getting things to run right thrills me. I guess I am like the guy on the tv show "tooltime" (or whatever it is called) I would hop up my lawnmower if i could figure out how to do it easily.

so like i said before, let's go burn some more dead dinosaurs!