i have mastered all the plane on real flight g3 my hobby shop owner wants me to get a trainer but ill feel i wasted 300$ on one flight beacuse ill solo right away any one have any suggestions on planes that will be easy to fly but still have airobatic abilities

I think anyone who has mastered an r/c flight simulator could learn to fly on either a Four Star or a Tiger 2. Especially if your first few times were with an instructor on a 'buddy box'.

I "learned to fly" on a simulator as well, and my first REAL flights were on my friend's low wing plane (on the 'buddy box'). Then I purchased a high wing trainer, and I got bored with it very quickly.

I'd consider the Sig 4 Star or the Goldberg Tiger 2. They land easy, but fly much better than a trainer plane.


ScottyO.

You will learn with a trainer, and you can always steal out the equipment for a differant plane. Besides the Simulator is a LOT differant from the real thing you'll find out your not that great a pilot with the real thing.

Trust me you did not waste your money. Once you fly a trainer and solo then the next step is to use the sim to learn new manuvers then go try them out on the real thing.

In most cases the SIM is not that close to the real thiing. They do help quite allot, but as you will find out just flying a trainer, it's quite a bit different. If you crash on G3 you get the plane back and away you go, if you crash the real thing you are now fixing it.

A sim cannot teach the fine art of trimming your plane beyond the radio trims, tuning the engine, chosing the correct prop and a host of others.

Please start out with a trainer. Do your solo then go for the more aerobatic types. If you want to really train on a low wing aerobatic type then at least get a SIG 4 Star 40 or a Tiger 2. They can be used as a trainer with the right instructor by your side, but all more aerobatic low wing planes are the point and fly variety. This means that whatever input the plane gets from you it will hold that input until you give it another. On most any trainer, it will always try to right itself. This helps allot when you get disoriented.

Be patient, it will come and when it does you'll be glad you started out slowly

Hey ScottyO,

Dang great minds think alike. I was typing my reply out then read yours, talk about similar and no I did not read yours first. When I hit reply there was just the original post

Heh, heh, look at the times of our posts--
we were typing "4 Star" and "Tiger 2" at the same time, I just beat you to the "Post reply" button by a few seconds.

I do want to comment on one thing that you said, though. You said that a SIM is not that close to the real thing. In my very humble (and inexperienced) oppinion, given calm winds, flying a real r/c plane is EASIER than flying on a SIM[X(] Granted the stakes are higher, as there is no RESET button
You also mention trimming/tuning etc... But I think that is part of the importance of a good instructor (which is why I mentioned instructors and buddy boxes in my first post.)
I respect the fact that you are vastly more experienced than I am, and I am certainly not itching for a debate, I'm just fanning the flames of conversation so that newbies like me and parktm can learn as much as possible.

ScottyO.

Well out of the $300 your gonna waste to get flying ,only about $80 is for the trainer,,the rest of it is the engine and radio that you can put in any other $80 kit that you want once you master the trainer enough to be bored with it...just another point of view....Rog

That was weird timing as well as the suggestions being the same [X(]

The real thing can be easier or harder, that depends on the plane used in the sim and the plane used in real life. I can think of couple of the more aerobatic planes that G2/G3 comes with that I actually have (The Great Planes 1/4 scale Gene Soucy Extra 300S comes to mind) that the sim is no where close. I can hover my Extra, the sim snaps out hard with the same throw I use to hover with and yes all the dimensions are the same. So it's all relative. But I can tell you this. I learned allot on the sim about hovering and planes that had a tendency to snap when the throws are to high or airspeed is to low and how to recover from the snap. I also use it to practice the IMAC sequences. I will always attempt new manuvers on the sim several times before I try them on the plane. It's not perfect but it does work to an extent. I probably have 1/3 more hours on the sim as I do flying and that's saying allot since I did over 500 flights during last season. Yep I pretty much lived at the field

I agree that trimming, tuning and such all require the knowledge of a good instructor and it was great that you picked up on that, that was the idea I had, but did not explain it as well as I should have.

Experience is something you get when you didn't get what you wanted. I use that line allot and it works well in R/C. My experience is just different than yours, that is all, nothing more, at least to me, although I do appreciate the compliment

I am not thinking of this as a debate but as a bunch of people sharing ideas and thoughts and all, including me, are learning from it. So lets keep it going.

I, the same as you, think parktm asks a very important question and has a legitimate concern. Again, great minds thinking alike. Dang I'm scared now.

A sim helps with basic stick movements. It does not teach you how to steer on a grass runway. Also the takeoffs on the sim are stupid easy. Hit the throttle, steer for a few seconds and the plane is flying. You also can't get the big open view look at the field. I guarntee you wouldn't know how hi up to be, how fast or how far away to turn the plane to final to land. Having said that, there probably isn't much point in starting with a pure trainer. I would suggest an Avistar. It has a fast wing and is fairly aerobatic. It can be used as a trainer with your sim experience and can be very agile if you know what you are doing. The landins are also reasonably slow. If you really want to go a low wing to start with I would say get the 4*. It has a very wide speed range and will land as slow as any trainer. The Tiger2 is a very good plane but it will land a bit faster and may be a bit much even for someone with sim stick time. [8D]

Thanks, bubbagates, that's good info. You have given me renewed intrest in spending time on my SIM!

parktm, I still think that you could easily skip the typical high wing trainer if you want to (WITH the help of an instructor). If you can line up a runway for landing on the sim, you can do it with a real plane. Ground handling/taxi/takeoff with my friends low wing plane was much easier than with my high wing trainer, as the trainer seemed top heavy and tipsy on bumpy areas. When I got confident with my trainer, and started trying anything "fancy", I just got frustrated. The only thing it would do well was loops. Rolls were ugly, inverted flight was like pulling teeth, if you wanted to fly fast, it would just climb like mad... well, you get my point. A trainer is what it is. If you can bypass it, then more power to ya'!
Don't try and jump into an EXTRA or a warbird or anything advanced. But a low wing semi-symetrical wing with a little dihedral-- no problem IMHO!
Give us a shout back as you make your decision, and keep us informed how your first flights go!

ScottyO.

[>:]
OK--------ya got G3 mastered--------NOW add 5 mph winds that shift and gusts.........

Most people, including me, first fly with NO wind or gusts. Its ALMOST mandatory to learn with whether a simm or real...You have to change the parameteres and make it a contest as to how you fly the plane! MAKE IT WHERE YOU HAVE TO WORK IT TO FLY......LIKE THE REAL THING...........[>:]

MY $.25 WORTH.
PHIL I.

Scotty,

I'm glad it helped. Just as Phil just said, now crank up the wind and make it gusty and while your at it make it a 90 degree crosswind and go try i again or even better still make it a variable wind so that it is constantly changing speed and direction. NOW try to fly the sim

I wonder if parktm is seeing all of this, some really good ideas flowing in this thread

as long as your on the buddy box, i think a low wing trainer would be okay. something like a sky raider mach II would serve you well. naturally a million people and their mothers would recommend the four star so they can't be all that wrong either :-)

actually, come to mention it, the best low wing trainer i've ever flown (but never owned) was a world models supersport. they come in 30 and 40's and are wonderful flyers and easy as heck to land. if anything i recommend that plane. my friends who are terrible flyers look like veterans on that plane. plus it's quite acrobatic and wicked fast as well.

Oh, I forgot about the sky raider mach II. even the high wing mach I would be good as it is a nice trainer that is very aerobatic.

Nice suggestion and yes the 4 stars are a great series but the 70 dollar price tag for the skyradiers is relly hard to pass up

I got another vote for the World Models Super Sport 40S. What a nice flying plane. It lands a little faster than a trainer, but if you've mastered a sim, you should be able to handle it. Plus the ARF is < $100. I really doubt you could get bored with it, it is fast and aerobatic. As far as other advice, I don't have anything to say that hasn't already been said.

I am wondering about the Skyraider for a trainer. Haven't seen one but from what I have read, they land rather fast??? I have the WM SS and it lands pretty quick too. Not serious but I think its on the fast side for a trainer. [8D]

the sky raiders slow down to a crawl. i believe it has a lighter wing loading and thicker wings than the supersport but isn't built as tough. but the mach ii is a tail dragger so not as friendly to a beginner.

the hangar 9 arrow is another high wing trainer that has a semi symetirical wing that is fairly acrobatic.

I went from my trainer NexSTAR Select, to a Tiger 60 with OS61SF. The Tiger 60 is a very nice flyer, can be slow on approach and landing seems to float all the way in, but is capable of doing aerobatics, and, most of all, large enough to see clearly all the time. I also have the Four Star 40 and like it very much but I bought it after the Tiger 60. It has the OS 46 FXi engine from my NexSTAR. It is a tad faster and is very maneurverable but does float. It is a tail dragger so is a bit more to handle on landing where the Tiger 60 has a nose wheel and lands like a trainer. Lots of choices.

One more no-one mentioned is the Avistar. It is a high-wing with semi-symmetrical airfoil that allows for basic aerobatics, is faster than a trainer, but more forgiving. An OS46 FXi would do this plane just fine.

Regarding wind and so on, the week after I solo'ed, I was out there with my NexSTAR and there was a fairly strong cross wind. Another learning experience. No crashes, but it was spooky to say the least. If you have not already, get some of that under your belt with the sim. It will be well worth the time.

Let us know what you decide and how you make out on your first flight.