Airbourne in Japan

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hi,

i've been flying electric for a year now and have 6 glow planes to fly also. i tried for the first time to start my thunder tiger trainer today with an electric starter and succeeded in ruining the spinner. the prop didn't get turned over at all. as i don't have anyone to show me here (in japan) could anyone tell me what to do to get the prop turned over with the starter. maybe i'm not pressing hard enough. i tried flipping the prop with a metal rod, but it wouldn't fire. aaagh. any help much appreciated !!

tIANci

What you need to do is first to turn the prop CLOCKWISE till it start to reach Top Dead Centre (you will feel the compression) then apply the electric starter, for a 2C engine it will just turn over. Now is the battery supplying the power properly charged? Are you using a gel cell (12v motorcycle battery) or some other source ...

Airbourne in Japan

My Feedback: (3)

hi tIAMci, thanks for replying. i'm using a 12v gel battery, which i think is pretty well charged, but i'll put it on charge again. i'll have another go maybe today, i'm determined to make this work as i'm interested in engines anyway, which is why i bought some glow planes.

Fastsky

My son almost burned the starter cone out of the starter the first time he tried to start his engine. He was holding the starter too loose against the engine and it was creating heat from friction. I find its best to hit the starter button and then jam it onto the nose cone of the engine. If you don't have a nose cone on the front, get one. You never mentioned the capacity of your gel cell battery. A 7 amp hour or 7AH 12 volt battery is recomended. Also before you apply the starter against the nose cone hold the front of the wing with your left hand and hold the starter in your right hand. Its also a good idea to have the tail of the plane tied with a soft rope to keep the plane from jumping ahead when the engine starts. Does this help? [8D]

Airbourne in Japan

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thanks alot. i think i want holding it tightly enough against the spinner

forestroke

you should explain how it has ruined your spinner. that would help us in determining what is wrong.

lets look at it this way. choose from the scenario's below:

1. starter was spinning but prop was not -
a. when you tried to turn it over by hand, it was difficult - you probably flooded the cylinder. you need to remove the glow plug and let the fuel come out OR turn the plane so that the engine is on it's side with the muffler below the engine and rock the prop back and forth between the compression point. for beginners, removing the glow is good.
b. when you tried to turn it over by hand, it was easy to turn over - you might not be pressing hard enough. you can press a little harder. or as someone mentioned above, you can get the starter spinning first then jam it into the spinner but make sure that you jam it in square or else it'll wobble and can be dangerous.

2. prop was spinning but engine would not fire -
a. there is no fuel in the line leading up to the carb - since the trainer engine is mounted upright, you can easily choke the engine by putting your finger on the carb intake, push throttle full and turn the engine over a few times clockwise to draw the fuel to the carb before starting it with the starter. if no fuel is coming, your high speed needle may be closed. you need to open the needle two turns. also might want to check the plumbing to make sure your fuel lines are correct.
b. engine pops but then dies - high speed needle is too loo low or throttle is too low. start with high speed needle two turns out. give quarter throttle
c. engine keeps turning over but doesn't start - take out the glow plug and apply the glow starter, the glow plug should turn bright red. if it doens't turn red either the glow plug starter is out of batteries or the glow plug is broken. test a new glow plug in your hand with the glow starter first before installing it. if the new one glows bright red, then replace it. if it doens't then recharge the glow starter.
d. engine turns over but gets progressively slower - batteries might need to be recharged

by the way, how do you start the other glow planes? if you know how to start by chicken stick (i wouldn't use a metal rod) then you should be able to start the trainer in the same way. the only reason i like to use starters is because it's hard to prime an engine if it's fully cowled, which all but one of my planes are. but if you can prime it, hand starting shoudn't be hard.

also, i fly the wattage corsair a few times and really find it fun... got good times (5-7 minute) times flying from a 11.1V 3S1P 1100mah lipo and a 20AMP esc. i know you hate that plane... but just those simple mods and i'm flying pretty happy with it.

Red B.

Try starting the engine by hand!
Although I have a Sullivan starter, I almost never use it.
Hand starting is not difficult, here is how i do it:

1. You need a good blow plug battery. I use a 1.2V 4Ah NiCd-cell connected to a DuBro glow plug clip [link=http://www.shopatron.com/product/product_id=DUB337/101.0.5161.5193.0.0.0]Du-Bro RC Kwik-Klip II[/link].

2. Get a chicken stick (a pice of dowel with a piece of garden water hose slipped over it to protect the propeller) in order not to hurt your fingers.

Starting:
a) Fill the tank (pretty obvious :-))
b) Open the throttle fully
c) Turn the engine over by hand while covering the carb with your finger in order to prime the engine. 5-10 turns should do it. You should be able to see fuel being sucked through the fuel tubing into the engine. As an alternative, squirt some fuel directly into the carburettor.
d) Close the throttle to slightly above idle and flip the prop over a couple of times. The engine should sound "wet".
e) Flip the prop over backwards a couple of times in order to get rid of excess fuel.
f) Connect the glow plug battery
g) Flip the prop to start the engine.

If (c) was done correctly the engine should start after a couple of flips. If not, go back to (c) and re-prime the engine.

After a few attempts you will learn how much priming your engine needs and one to two flip starts should be the norm.
I admit that I don't use a chicken stick (bad advice). Also, by slightly over priming my engines I don't even have to flip the propeller over. Instead, I bump the propeller against compression in the backward direction. This works very nicely for all my engines .15 to 1.8 cu.in.


/Red B.

Airbourne in Japan

My Feedback: (3)

hey, thanks for the info guys, that really helps. basically the prop didn't turn over at all with the starter, which mearly spun round on the spinner and made a nice groove in it. i probably want pushing too hard. my other 5 glow planes are still in their boxes - i got a bit enthusiastic last year and just bought what i liked (i'm crazy about planes, having started on real ones 20 years ago, but frustrated now i live in japan and there's no private flying). i've got a graupner giles .46, a waco .32, a spitfire .90, an f86 d/f and a p38 2x.32 kit, (the others are artf). got to start this one to get onto the others !!

hey fourstroke, what motor are you running in the wattage corsair ? i tried several different ones, including finally a motor max 400t and 1500mah 3 cell lipo and it still wouldn't fly. did get 2 nice flights one day with it and i was really happy, running an f27 f480 motor. if it wasn't for that i wouldn't believe it would fly at all. shame, i want to fly all my planes to the max !!

Airbourne in Japan

My Feedback: (3)

success, i got my glow plane to start !! i turned the starter on before jamming it on the spinner and that's how to do it. ran the motor at idle for about an hour and there was still 1/4 tank of gas left. my ears are ringing now. got to setup the motor yet, idle, mixture etc, but the oil every where has forced me to equip my car with a toilet roll for when i do actually take it flying. boy this is different to electric, i love the noise from engines. and the oil reminds me of my motorbike days !! thanks a lot for all the useful advice, guys !!

forestroke

grounded - i only ran it with the stock motor and 11.1V lipo, 20A generic ESC and it was fine. there were two things i did to it to make it run okay... first was to put a huge bolt on the front of the plane to get the CG right and the second was to ensure that the wing was always seated correctly because the incidence of the wing makes it prone to stalling if not seated correctly.

i think you've seen this picture already but here it goes...

glad you got the engine running! becareful not to flood the engine. if it's very hard to turn over by hand, you've likely flooded the engine... if you try to crank the engine with the starter when it's flooded, you could bend the con rod.

Charlie P.

There are several different profiles starter cone inserts and dozens of types of spinners, with slightly different shapes. I prefer the white silicone insert for my Sullivan, but the one that fits best will give the best results.

As mentioned above. Prime the carb by putting your thumb over the intake (BEFORE YOU PUT THE GLO-IGNITER ON THE PLUG) and watch to see that the fuel is moving in the tubing to the needle valve.

Attach the glo-driver, open to half throttle, press the starter motor tight up to the spinner and let her rip. If it doesn't start in 15 seconds, stop and think things out.

Do you know the mfg recommended needle-valve setting? It's usually best to start five "clicks" rich and advance the valve to lean after it's run 10 seconds or so.

hhhhhhhhh

make sure ur glow plug is working and your glow start is charged and u r using the right fuel and priming it and check that there is no blocks in the fuel line....