Hey all, I just thought I would post these pics to see if anyone might know anything about this kit. I'm also going to post the pictures in the kit building forum but as I'm still a beginner I thought I would post them here 1st.

I'm thinking of building this plane as my 3rd plane in about an year or so.

Mark's Models was very popular in the 70's and early 80's and the kits built very well. If you are a beginner then please put this one on the shelf as it is a builders kit and even harder to fly due to it being so short coupled and touchy on the controls. Now we can solve this problem really easy by you just sending it to me as I love these bipes!

The length of time could be ok, depending on how fast you learn, but 5th plane might be a bit better.

go ahead and build it , the balsa might already be warped from shelf life. Besides you have all of RCU to give you tips just in case you start losing your mind. I thought I was going to burn my shrike .10 while building it but I hung in there with the help of 3 people. GL Biplanes will come in the spring for me, hopefully a .40 size with my a first Saito four stroke.

Don't worry about shelf life. I have built kits that were 40+years old with no problem, and have some excelent 50 year old balsa among my supplies. It should be a great model and build up nicely, but as advised by others on this forum have a bit of experience under your belt before building/flying it. Enjoy!

jess

Complete agreement. It would be a shame to have a beginner try to tackle a classic kit and mess it up. Much better to build a few easier kits first and save this one for when his skills are ready for the challenge.

I have to say that incredible ! do you still have them ? I would love to see what models you are talking about from 40 years ago. As far as balsa goes if it ain't fresh I would not attempt to build with the stuff . The choice is yours.

Well, I'm still planning on waiting a bit to start the build. I figured it was going to be a more "advanced" kit and I won't start it till probably after I get my second plane up in the air. I know a lot of you will say leave it for the 4th or 5th plane but, don't know how long that will be (baby on the way) and I'm not in any hurry to get it in the air. Unlike some other people I've read on here, I know my limits, I'm quite happy right now trying to fly my trainer inverted with all the dihedral it comes with. And I'm still learning a ton on landings and approaches and all the good stuff that will make me a better pilot. I was just kind of trying to figure out if they were a good kit back in their day and the way it sounds, it was. So I'm excited I walked into the Kit for free and it will sit in my collection till I feel I'm ready to start assembly and to fly it. I will make sure to post a ton of pictures online when I start and I will do my own build thread also. I'm sure I'll have a ton of questions.

Thanks all!

Cool, it'll be a great project. The one thing I would suggest is to build a kit from a company that's known for providing good instructions before you build the bipe. This will give you some experience when you encounter something that's not well documented in the older kit. I've always found the instructions in Sig kits to be well written.

I just kind of skimmed the instructions the other day and there aren't any pictures and there are alot of terms that I'm not very familiar with, so I'm really considering making my second plane a kit. And possibly building it over the January, February time frame, when ever here in TX it gets a little chilly out. I really like the looks of the Tiger2 plane so I'll probably ask for one of those for Xmas from the wife and see what happens.

Actually I have some kits that are even older. Examples from the late '30s include a Sailplane, a Zipper and a Playboy. I will save these as collectables, though the quality of the wood is fine. Why would you have reservations about old balsa? Like other woods as long is it is kept dry, strored flat and protected from insects the shelf life should be indefinite. Bear in mind too that the longer wood cures the less prone it is to warp.

BTW I have several CL models that I built in the late 50s that while in need of recovering (silk and dope) are otherwise quite flyable.

jess

Wood no matter what type or kind warps even if you try your best to preserve it in a seal tight container. My worry is trying to pull off a tight snap roll or a fast loop and then an unseen dry rotted section in the wing snaps in mid flight causing a major crash hopefully no hurting any body.

In my line of work , I see doors go from closing without a problem in the summer , to not being able to close at all in the winter. This is caused by moisture being sucked in and out of the wood. So why would (no pun intended) be different ?

If it is covers with film and other types of covering, it will definitely last longer. The covering acts as a protective case which once the fuel mess gets inside of the fuselage , counts for nothing.


GL

A FEW THOUGHTS ON BUILDING FROM VINTAGE KITS

Building a vintage kit using original lumber can range anywhere from a great joy to a miserable experiance. Almost an art form working with balsa I am reminded of the commercial "it will not be wine before its time". I,ve built many very vintage kits with wonderful lumber but some are not so. Every project must be taken on a case by case basis. Also its important to realize that all kits were not created equal and even when new some were supplied wood not even very usable. Taking into account approriateness of density and grain for its intended purpose.

Before I get roasted by the vintage purist, let me say many suggest that you never build a vintage kit but save it, Its too valuble. I do not think like that, while I do have a substancial stash of tresured kits, most were originally purchased by me for me. I do usually have a copy of the plans made to work from and make templets of any diecuts but do enjoy working the vintage lumber. I,ve no interest in feeding the 'EBay Opportunists' with my leftovers when I,am gone.

So brocj do enjoy your kit and build it but do not even thank about flying it for some time (only you will truly know when that time is right and its not related to some number of airplanes, first second etc.) Also keep in mine vintage kits generally are far more demanding than modern kits in many ways therefore its best to begin with a modern beginers type kit. You will find its the differance between night and day.

This first picture is a kit I first acquired in the mid fifties and built just five years ago (a challanging build because this company used non scale small plans and relied on diecut notching for alignment. The lumber on this one was awfull and about 50% had to be replaced. Flew it for a year untill my wife took it away from me and made me hang it up, the 'Its so cute syndrome" She passed away a short time later so out of respect it will hang there untill I,am gone.


The next two pictures are of a one underway. Its lumber was perfect and an excellent density and grain for the intended parts.

The last photo is a 1961 kit that will be next. Its the 1960 1/2 A free flight nationals winner and agine the lumber is perfect.


Enjoy John

Team Geriatric

Well, RC I must confess that it has never occured to me to soak my balsa in water before using it to build a model airplane.

If you contemplate saturating your wood before using, I still don't see what difference the age of the wood would have. New would fare no better than old. Again, absent abused wood, I see no cause for concern with properly stored wood regardless of age. Further I see no reason for saturating balsa that is later to be used in construction of model aircraft, or for using wood treat as you describe.

I found it mildly interesting that Mr. Bader's tests found no rot in balsa until it had been soaked for six months or so. Initially I saw no connection of this test to models. Then I realised that one might encounter a seaplane that had been sunk and lost for some period of time.

In any event the Jess Real World Practical Tests of Old Balsa clearly and repeatably demonstrate that there is no problem in using old wood.

jess

Wood that is properly stored does not warp or rot. Woodworkers do this all the time. The key is to keep it properly stored. If the kit has been opened and the wood put back all jumbled then yes, it's probably going to warp. If the sheets and other stock are still bundled and are flat on the bottom of the box then they will remain straight. I too have several old kits and when I look at them the wood is still in excellent condition.

I am not saying there are not ways to preserve the wood or balsa if you will , but my goodness a model that is 40 years plus, IMHO is just scraps. I haven't even lived that long yet never mind building a model kit that was made before I was born and then putting a torque throwing engine on the nose and then taking off for a flight. Has it been done ? maybe but I would rather just buy a similar kit that was made in the year I am currently experiencing.

That's cool, it's better to leave the old kits to those who appreciate them. Personally, I like both old and new.

Good Luck

jess All these years with out a wood failure-

I came into this late, because I've been out of town. Seeing that kit is a blast from the past! When I briefly fooled around in RC in the early '80s, before I got back into RC two years ago, I had a friend who built a Mark's Models "funscale" Pitts. I've tried to find reference to it on the internet without success.

I would disagree that it is a particularly challenging kit to build. As I recall, the wings are solid balsa, with an undercamber to them, which becomes a flat-bottom airfoil when covering is applied. It was designed to be pretty simple to build. I don't recall that it was necessarily that great to fly. It is a small plane and may be a bit on the heavy side with the solid wing. I agree that it's not a second or even third plane for flying, but you could probably build it with a little help.

-Scott

Edit -- I looked a little closer at the label on the box and confirmed that it does have the solid balsa wings I described.

Chuck I am in your corner as far as old style planes, but not just plain old kits. If I get my hands on a old kit from forty years ago , I would build it but not fly the battle ax. Or better yet I would try to sell it to you before I opened the box. But I get squeamish even when I build an up to date right of the presses kit , because until it is under flight stress one never knows do one ? No hard feelings , just my opinion on the matter. [8D] GL all...........

I really like the old kits...im only 16 but theres somthing fun about watching a plane fly thats 3 times as old as I am...

On the subject of old planes...would anyone be interested in a build thread of an original "Tomahawk" CL plane? It's anything but complex, but it is the first kit Ive worked on. Im building it for a friend of mine.

Yes AZ I would and indeed would be refreshing from a young modelers perspective.

John

Ok cool...Ive got the wing all pinned up on a sheet of styrofoam now...just need glue. And thats a good hour and a half away (small town)

Anyway thanks for the input and look for a thread in the kit building section soon.

Collin

Is that the Veco Tomahawk? Neat plane, similar to the Brave as I recall. I still have a Thunderbird built from a Veco Kit in the late 50s. It has not flown in years but is still sound except for the silk covering. I removed the Fox 35 a couple of years back, soaked it briefly in glow fuel and it fired right up.

I will be interested in following your construction.

jess

As I understand it, this kit was made by Brodack... Yes I know Brodack changed the Tomahawk design..but (if my source is correct) there were a few Tomahawk kits manufactuerd before the design was changed...

But it should be fun to see it go together..Ive never even seen a CL plane before now... When I opend the box I had no idea what a bellcrank was *silly me* good thing theres instructions with this...