I've been flying off and on for the past three years but still consider myself a "beginner." I've been flying long enough to have developed a certain naturalness with the sticks, that is I don't have to consciously think things like "on an inbound plane move the stick in the direction of the low wing." In this sense, I can just "go out there and fly" -- not well mind you but...

Anyway, most of my major pucker moments have been the result of losing orientation on the model for a moment. In one case this resulted in a totalled model when I banked right only to find that the model was already turning right.

What are the tips and tricks to maintain orientation during the flight. I've learned the hard way no to do stupid things like flying my model past the sun. I've also learned that you have to be flying the model IN YOUR HEAD and not just with your eyes, that is, you have to just know what orientation its in because that's the way it's supposed to be. This is similar to the skills required to "fly blind" -- like the time my model dipped behind a tall stand of bamboo and I had to fly it for a couple of seconds on feel alone.

So what techniques have you developed to maintain orientation? Note: Since I'm into scale models the option of doing one side of the wing in orange monocote and the other in pink isn't an option!

Here are a few things that might help. First, do not allow your mind to wander, or look away from the plane, unless it is flying straight and level, and away from you. When you turn, remember which way you've turned. This way, you know what control input to apply to level out. And finally, if you have become disoriented, apply a SMALL control movement to see what happens. If the plane banks a little more, you know you went the wrong way, and can correct it.

Even experienced pilots may become disoriented at times. The worst is flying with a low sun behind the plane. The plane will shilouette out and become just one black blob.

First, never take your eyes off the plane. Second, always remember the last command you gave. Cut power so the plane will be moving as rapidly. Third, neutralize all controls and let the plant fly for a second or two. Then give an input such as up elevator and watch the reaction. Neverfly so far away from yourwself that the plane becomes so small that you can't tell which attitude it's in.

Dr.1

the last posted sentence above is the best advice,do not fly so far away,stay in fairley close and low,stay above trees or bamboo..actually you need to fly ahead of the model.you need to know where it is going and what you are going to do before it get's there.when i had not flown for a while i took out a como 25[probably considered an advanced trainer] and flew a few flights to see if i could still fly and more importantly land.then i did a maiden on a sport aire 40 [similar to a vk cherokee]that i built.it was trimmed fine but even though i had 30 years flying,because i had not flown for awhile i was uncomfortable as the plane was ahead of me most of the time.this was just do to lack of flying time on a consistant basis.practice practice makes perfect

This is one of my biggest problems. I'm still learning to fly and this is where I get confused the most. I don't have the best of eyes anymore, not like when I was younger & while I understand the need for altitude while training, it seems like these guys want me to fly so high I have a hard time seeing the plane sometimes, I'm alot more comfortable with it at half the altitude we are flying at but that leaves no time for recovery, so what can ya do?


Mark

I made a big mistake when i cover my plane, i covered bottom wing with the same color of the top.... that caused me a lot of times disorientation. Now i put colors like white in the bottom and red in the top. This really helped me out with disorientiation problem. Of course, the sun stills a problem... not only for me, for you, but to all. Avoid him, never lose you concentration, and you will have not much problem.

I feel your pain. I've got to update my thread, Sign me up for the Stupid Club, because of something I did a few days ago very similar to you.

I was slightly distracted from flying the plane while it was 20 feet off the ground for maybe two or three seconds while in a turn and I'm putting the pieces back together again now.

Not my favorite way of learning. You'd think I'd have learned something by reading about other's experiences by now! [&o]

Distraction can be a major problem at my current RC club here in Japan. It seems to be part of the club culture that people stand around next to you and talk to you while you fly -- and this means they're talking to me in Japanese! In the past this has cut both ways in that at least once the guys have really saved my bacon by pointing out something relevant for example that the sound of the engine isn't quite right or that it looks like I might go into the trees and need to pull up or the advice I got on what to do the time my carb got jammed at full throttle.

But all it takes is an moment of "lost focus" and you can get turned around in the air. I think the comment about making sure you are mentally AHEAD of the model is a very good point.

Here is a good trick for regaining control and/or orientation after losing it:

Center the sticks and then pull up elevator. Returning sticks to center allows the plane to straighten out (stop spinning, rolling, twisting,…) reestablishing control. Pulling up elevator shows where the top side is. Orientation becomes obvious fast. It does not matter if banked or nose up or down after centering sticks. As long as there is no rudder or aileron deflection, pulling up elevator will make the plane loop around and around, either sideways or vertical or however. Now just keep pulling till you figure it out.

This maneuver has the benefit of giving the pilot "time" to settle down and get back in the game without worrying about the plane flying away or into the ground immediately. The plane will stay looping, in whatever orientation, in basically the same location, as long as up is held and aileron and rudder remain centered.

There are 2 requirements for this maneuver to work:

1. You must have enough altitude to loop out if inverted. This altitude is what is commonly know as "one mistake" high. And the old thumb rule for safe and conservative altitude management is to "remain at least 3 mistakes high" while training or learning any new maneuver.

2. Elevator throw has to be less than what it takes to stall. If you pull hard enough to stall, the plane will snap and spin instead of loop. Any good trainer will not stall. For aerobatic types, I recommend setting up low rate elevator to be not enough to snap out of a loop at full back stick. Then flying in low rate elevator becomes relatively "safe."

So, when in doubt just remember: "LET GO, PULL BACK" (neutralize flight path, then loop). Next time you fly, try this out, from any flight attitude, with any airplane. Don't rush to recover. Just let the plane continue looping. Observe how it remains basically in the same chunk of airspace giving the pilot time.

Multiflyer

it takes ALOT of time with a plane, but you should start to know exactly what the plane is doing. you should develop the sense that 'if you hold the stick full right for 3 seconds, it will roll 2.5 times' once you get to that point you no longer have to rely on just your eyes for orientation, you KNOW what the plane is doing without seeing it constantly. I'm up to that point on most of my planes, but the ones that I"m not certainly up the pucker factor!

Hi Mark. I totally agree with you. I am 59 and I am a novice. When they take me way up, I really get lost. I prefer about mid-height where I can see what the plane is doing. I understand that these instructors mean well. They want to save your plane for another flight.
I simply cannot see it up that high. I can't wait for spring and I will have a new radio with a buddy chord hooked up to the instructor and then I will let them train me and I will put my trust in them. Either that, or I need a pair of binoculars strapped to my face. Take care and good luck. Mike

This is very good advice, I think we often fly too much on sight and not enough on feel.

Having said that, today my model bit the big one due to disorientation so here's a first hand account. Yesterday, I went flying with the same model and had a great day. I flew merrily around the sky and nailed 10 out of 10 landings -- most of them quite elegant. But somehow when I headed out to the field today my head seemed to be full of other things. It was beautiful day again with just a slight crosswind but no problems in that regard. It was a bit bright and that did turn out to be one of several factors leading to disorientation.

Anyway, on my first (and as it turned out only) flight today, I took off without any problem but almost immediately felt like I was "behind" the model. I should have landed immediately. But I kept doing a few lazy patterns and figure 8's. About this time a heli joined me in the sky. I'll tell you now I hate helis and normally don't like to fly in the same sky as one. Their flight pattern is quirky and unpredictable. Now I knew this guy was an outstanding heli pilot who can make the thing dance upside down on a pin so I figured it was primarily his job to get out of the way and I stayed over towards the right side of the field. But somehow this did affect my already limited concentration and I suddenly found the model upside down doing an unplanned split S -- which I manage to catch about 4 feet of the deck. Again I should have landed and allowed myself to chill out or just head home. But I continued on with a few more circuits hoping to find the groove I had yesteday. Well not more than a minute later, again in mid-field close where the heli was flying, I lost orientation again and this time I didn't save it. It spun quickly down and over the 40 foot drop at the edge of our field (which is on an unused rice terrace) and out of sight. It happened really fast and I was pretty low at that point. It I had been mentally sharper I might have been able to pull it out since I actually have 40 feet of air beneath it once it went out of sight. But I basically just froze.

The factors that led to the disorientation can, I think, be ranked in the following manner: 1) my generally foggy level of concentration today 2) the presence of the heli in the sky 3) a dark red model, top and bottom, against a bright sky. Our field faces the sun so no matter when you fly the sun is behind some portion of the sky.

The only saving graces in a day with few saving graces were that the nylon bolt on the landing gear did just what they were supposed to do (and sheered off instead of taking off the bottom of the fuse), the CA-hinges pulled free instead of tearing up the tail, and the wing and most of the fuse survived.

I can tell you now I won't fly again if there's a heli in the air and if one goes up while I'm flying, I'm landing as soon as I can. It's not the other guys fault, it's mine. But I know the limits of my attention.

A comment here to the guys flying way high. I used to make my students fly high when we didn't have buddy boxes, then when we did I had the habit of keeping them high.
A few years ago I had a stroke and my Dr. said that flying high and sort of over our head was cutting off the blood flow to the brain and if I didn't stop it I could consider a BRAIN CRASH in the future. Needless to say now I sometimes get complaints that we are flying to low, but in reality we aren't that low, just a little further out and NOT OVER OUR HEADS. ENJOY !!! RED

I went up a couple of weeks ago after not flying for over a year. Was on a buddy box with the club instructor just in case. Well just in case happened and I nearly buried the plane. Lost orientation and concentration at the same time. The sweetest words are the ones that come from the guy on the other end of the buddy box cord; "I've got it" which means your airplane will live to fly another day. I'm not totally new to this hobby and have flown RC for some time. I learned the lesson. It's not the same as riding a bicycle. You can forget, and you can get past the just rusty stage to the start all over phase.

Each time before going out to the field, I warm up my thumbs a bit with some practice with RealFlight G2. I think I'm going to start practicing in G2 with the model smaller and further away to force myself to mentally fly the plane instead of just reacting to visuals.

Besides, it'll be a week or more before I can get my busted model back in the air.

I fond it's easy for beginners to turn in the same direction that planes fly and imagine themselves in a cockpit. I trained two guys like that.

So, when the plane is coming at you, you should turn away from it to fly it?

Yes, it can be easy to teach them like this. However, it can be VERY DIFFICULT for them to break this habbit.

along with dangerous and hard to learn the proper stick movements when needed.

Great advice to all, one thing seems to be missing on all of this input is simple brain fatigue. For me it’s always taken a while to last 5 minutes at full concentration. heh heh. If I look back at most of my problems it after I got tired. At the field some guys will fly longer than others then they land and take 30 to 45 minutes before even thinking about going back up. Long after engine has cooled. Beginners are so pumped up try to refuel and get right back up and their brain will go into fog land. For me at the first of the year it’s at 6 to 7 minutes then the plane starts to be hard to follow I now just force myself to land because landing is always a rush of energy. Wait until I have got my feeling back and go again but still having problem with just that one more last flight it’ just before body bag my plane heh heh
Rich

Many good pointers in the received replies. The following were mentioned but the 3 I try and concentrate on are: Stay in the cockpit, remember your last move, and you fly the plane, don't let the plane fly you.

DaveB

a great tip that has worked for me is to point the transmitter antenna in the direction that your plane is flying to keep your sticks oriented to the planes direction.

You know, I've been thinking about this, and I think that in my case, my frequent episodes of disorientation are the result of letting the plane fly me instead of me flying the plane. I tend to just tool around the sky. Sure I have a vague plan something akin to "do a clockwise circuit" or "do some figure 8s" but if there is a small variation in the heading I end up on I tend to just do with that.

It might help if reduce the time of my flights and before each flight think through just what I'll be doing.