yah, yah. I know. Another "Second plane" question. Almost as bad as the "Hey, I'm a newbie...never flown before.....don't need no stinking instructor....should I get the spitfire or the P-38....blah blah blah!"[:-]

Please just bear with me!

Here's the deal. I built from a kit and am currently flying an LT-40 with 46AX and futaba 6EXA radio w/ digital servos. I can loop, roll, fly inverted, spiral out of the sky, and snap roll (or the LT-40's gosh awful attempt at a snap roll!). I am very comfortable with orientation and flying the LT-40. It always comes down in one piece (just jinxed myself, didn't I?)

Anyway, it has been a great trainer, and I love it to pieces. However, I am getting that second plane fever!

I was considering building a Sig 4star60 kit and put a nice 4-stroke on it. However, I have heard that your second plane has a higher probability of getting rekitted. I have decided to wait on the kit and go with a CHEAP ARF.

I would like to eventually get into some semi-scale warbirds (i.e. H9 P-40), but I'm in no hurry. I want to have fun along the way. I also want to use my current engine and equipment in the new plane.

So, here are some ARF's that I am considering. Please give your thoughts and criticisms! Plus, If you have a suggestion not listed, please feel free to suggest it.

WM T-34 (would go with this in a heart beat if it was a tail dragger, but then again, it wouldn't be a T-34, would it?)
Cermark Javelin II (recommended by LHS)
Sig Something extra (pretty thick wing)
40 size chipmunk (don't remember who makes the one I saw)
WM Castrol Cap 232 (I think perhaps this is out of my skill level...what say you?)
Goldberg Tiger 2 (don't like the looks of it much)
4*40 (yah, it's highly recommend as 2nd plane, but I like to be different.)

Fire away!

Septic,
Seeing your background I would recommend the 4-star or the Tiger II. The Something Extra can also be a good second plane but ONLY if only if you turn down the control throws from the recommended throws. All the rest are pretty much too much plane for a second plane.

The reason the second plane has a bigger chance of getting rekitted is usually because the pilot tries to fly too much plane too soon. Trust me, I know this from experience. My third plane was a 1/4 Lanier Extra 300. Beautiful airplane, but I never flew it. It flew me. I was never comfortable. In the end it was killed by a bad switch and did a full power knife edge into the ground. But the moral of the story is don't try to fly too much too soon. I still have my trainer and my second plane after 9 years of flying, and yes I do still fly them now. But if you get one of the three planes I listed above I think that you should do fine. One thing that could help a lot is if you are nervous when you get ready to fly it, ask your instructor to buddy box you for the first flight. Heck, if you want I'd be more than happy to come up to The City and buddy box you. Or you can come down here and I'd be more than happy to get you up on your second plane. Let me know.

Hope this helps

Ken

Get a 4*40 ARF and fly the wings off it.

While it may appear to be a docile plane--for your second plane--it's perfect. Trust me--it'll scare ya a few times.

The jump too a semi-symetrical wing and a taildragger is a huge step over what your currently flying. (nice choice for a trainer BTW--and good for you--you built a kit)

Man, you just can't go wrong with a 4* for a 2nd plane. Great step up. Will still land slow--but fly fast when you hammer the throttle. GREAT for doing snaps, rolls, flat spins, rolling circles. Just a fabulous plane.

Good luck.

thanks guys!
Yah, I mentioned that I wanted to be different with going a different route from the Tiger 2 or the four-star. But, then again, I guess there is a reason that everyone seems to choose these two planes as second planes.

RCKen, any preference between the sig and the tiger 2? I really enjoyed building the LT-40. The instruction manual Sig packaged with it was top notch! Is the 4-star is a fairly easy, quick build? I've also been told that with the 4*, one can fly it as is, then later remove one wing bay as I progress. Is this true?

I guess that if I'm going with the four star, I might as well go with the 60 size. What is a good motor to throw on this puppy? I'd like to be on the upper side of the power band. Someone recommended a $aito 100 or 91. I want a good motor, and don't mind paying for it, but I don't want to just burn up cash (that's what glow fuel is for!)

(BTW, thanks for the offer RCKen. I may take you up on the offer.)

If you get a 4*60 kit--then slap a Tower hobbies .75 in it. Best kept secret in the hobby for $100. Save the 4-stroke for a scale plane. They cost twice as much. Put that extra money towards the covering, linkages, servos..etc.. on your 4*60 kit.

If you must have a 4-stroke then a 91 is the perfect engine for a 4*60--but IMO--they are just too expensive.

I like building kits too. Lots of work, but worth it.

Check my build thread in the Kit Building forum. It's a 4*120 with a Ryobi 31cc gasser on it.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_3566766/tm.htm

Lots of mods. Lots of work, but worth it. Can't wait to fly it.

I have heard the Sig Something Extra is great-easy plane to fly and many feel it is a good second plane (I have not flown and really can't comment if this is true or not). I also know people rave about the Sig 4 Star series to be great second planes. Some of the newer guys and novices in our club have transitioned to 4 Stars and have very high praise. I also see guys with lots of years of experience fly 4 stars, so this airplane obviously keeps ones interest over the long haul! Personally, I like the .40 or .60 sized Ultra Sticks by Hanger 9. Yes, they are ugly and don't knife edge worth a hoot. However, they do everything else very well and are very docile at landing speeds! They are a quick build and very nicely built and finished by the manufacturer and for the price, a real deal. I had the .40 sized red one.

If you want something different you could always go with the Sportster 40 ARF. They discontinued the kit [:@] but it's a great flying airplane!

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXAVR1&P=0

I would lean towards the tiger 2. Alot of people have them, but you can mod it heavily. Everytime I take mine to the field, people always ask what A/C is it and when I tell them it's a tiger they can't believe it. Here's a pic

Nice mods on that Tiger, and I can believe nobody knows what it is.

Kerry

Ultra Stick or any "stick" plane.

WoW, that Tiger looks great Mods. I can't believe people can't recognize it!

I again vote for either the Four Star or Somethin' Extra. I have flown both, and owned a Somethin' Extra. Both were great flying planes, but keep in mind that the SE has a symmetrical airfoil and the 4*s do not

Either way you go, you won't be dissapointed

~Michael~

My vote is based on your comment about re-kitting. If you really want to avoid that and really develop confidence then you should go with the Tiger II or better yet the Tiger 60.and put that 4-stroker you want on it. I have a Tiger 60 with a Saito 80 on it that is 18 years old. I still fly it almost every weekend just because it's such a great model. The Tiger does not show some of the bad traits that the 4*'s show and that Bruce Tharpe, the designer, says he solved with his Venture 60 which is a another great flyer if you want to build the kit.

Rich
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Wyoming Wind Festival Jan 1 to Dec 31

wow, gone for the day to work, and come back to a boat load of great advice, thanks.

Much to study. I need to do some thinking! Thanks guys!

My second plane was an Ultra Stick 40. My second plane was supposed to be a Tiger 2 kit, but I am a slow builder. The US is still my primary plane. It is a great flying plane. I have a 46AX in it, 7 servos (2 aileron, 2 flaps) and a Futaba 6ch computer radio.

Interesting that nobody has endorsed the WM T-34 as a second plane, first low winger. The reviews are overwhelmingly positive. Do most folks think it`s actually a little too hot for a first low wing? I know from experience that it will flat land hot, especially compared to a 4*!

I've heard that it is a great second plane, albiet hotter than the four star. I've also heard it's too hot. From what I understand, it doesn't fly like true T-34 model, but more of a fun fly. Looks nice, though.

I've looked at some of the posts regarding the Something extra. I do have a stupid question: What kind of plane is it? I know what it looks like, but is it a low wing trainer, acrobatic trainer, fun fly, 3d trainer, or all of the above?

The somethin extra on low rates is an aerobatic trainer, and on high rates is a fun fly plane. It doesn't 3D well but the plane is a blast to fly. I've had 2 of them RIP.

Hey Septic_Shock
I got to throw my vote in for the Sig Somethin Extra, Great plane !!! Keep the throws down until you get used to it. It can do just about anything you ask it to. PLUS you can save some money by yanking the AX46 out of your trainer and using it on the SSE !!!

Dale

How much harder is the 40size SSE to see as compared to a 4-star 60?

Hi Septic_Shock
as far as being able to see the airplane you would definitely have to keep the SSE in a bit closer compared to the 4* 60. You are looking at 20 inches of difference in wingspan !!!! ( 51" vs 71" )
It all comes down to what you want, bigger airplane bigger engine vs smaller plane and possibly using your .46 ax from your trainer. I have flown both of them. I love both planes, the 4* will do a lot but the SSE will out perform it acrobatically hands down. The 4* 60 would be a bit more stable due to it's size and flying characteristics. Just my honest opinion for what it's worth.

Dale

SS, I've seen you fly. Perhaps for you,,,,,,,,,a Spitfire! (Luke, ya watchin??) Actually the 4 *'s are nice, by what Ive seen and heard. Wanna give yourself abit of an adrenaline burst, a Twist, Uproar, or Dazzler.

Have a look at the Great Planes Super Sportster!

Septic Shock,

If you're seriously considering the Four Star 60, you are welcome to come down one weekend and try mine out. I'm running the Magnum 91 4 stroke on it, and it flies great! That would be the engine to consider if you want a 4 stroke, without spending a bunch. They are not as expensive as a Saito or OS, and as far as I'm concerned, are just as reliable. There are 5 or 6 of them flying at my field, and I've seen zero problems with any of them. The Four Star really flies much better on a 4 stroke. Let me know if you want to come down and check it out and we'll get together!

I have to again vote for the SEE. I got the ARF, and it was magnificant.

I'm planning on getting another one here pretty soon, like before or after Christmas and to build it and have it ready for next Spring. I loved the ARF that I got (but it's RIP right now...lost elevator in a blender). On low rates (which I never flew on, always took off and landed on high rates) was a blast. When I WAS on low, then the plane was a great flying plane. NOTHING bad that I found about it was horrible. On high rates, and an OS 46AX and 12.25x3.75 APC prop, I could hover for a little bit. I didn't have the gap on the elevator quite right, so I would fall out. I couldn't get enough throw to keep it upright.

But anyways, the 4*s a great. Like I said, I have flown both, and have found that I do like both, but I always lean for the SE because I peronally flew one

Hope this help

~Michael~

ID recommend Ugly stick type at least for a while. four star has been #2 for quite a few & as long as the throws are reduced certainly works .Sig Kavalier (if you can find a kit ) Is a terrific #2 plane.