Well, it was bound to happen someday. My first non-rebuildable, completely catastrophic crash. I was flying my resurrected 30-year old Andrews Aeromaster bipe (family heirloom). It was flying great, engine tuned well, trimmed out nice. I was pulling out of a dive at about 3/4 throttle. As I neared horizontal, I saw a piece of white material fly off the plane. At first glance, I thought it was an aileron, which I had just rehinged. Ruh-roh. The plane immediately and quickly rolled over to the left. I could not bring it under control and planted it into the ground.

Post mortem revealed the following: As we walked toward the wreckage, the white piece was still floating toward the ground. It was not an aileron; they were both intact. It was a large piece of covering that had come off of the bottom left wing. It just ripped off in flight. The exposed open space caused the plane to go completely out of control. In looking at the wing, the strange thing was that the covering did not break loose at a seam. It started to rip about 1 1/2 in. back from the leading edge. Ironically, I had just recovered the bottom of the wing a few flights prior to repair some damage from a forced landing.

My question is this: Is it possible for covering to just give way like that? Is it more likely that the wing began to fail, stressing the covering and causing it to tear? Would the cold weather (about 30) have any effect?

-Scott

Wow - bummer of a story man. []

Scott

If you were in that dive still and went to 3/4 throttle anything is bound to happen. If not, it sounds like the covering had a weak spot otherwise, maybe from to much heat or a very small hole that went un-noticed.

Sorry about the loss

[]

Thanks for the condolences, all. BTW, the covering was MonoKote. Forgot to mention that.

It wouldn't bother me much, but for the fact that the plane was built by my late father in the early '70s.

-Scott

jagnweiner,
First of all, sorry about the loss. That plane is a gorgeous airplane and it's truly a shame that it crashed. Now for the cause. I spend a lot of time in the air and I've seen a lot of weird thing happen with monokote. The weirdest that gets me (I see 3 or 4 of these every summer) is I will fly my plane and when I land I notice a hole in the monokote. It totally baffled me for awhile until it happened once and then I found the dead bug (Junebug to be exact) stuck inside the wing cavity. So I learned that the holes where being caused by hitting bugs in the air.

Monokote is just like anything else in the world in that they can fail for no reason at just about anytime.. It's possible that it just let go. It's possible that i developed a small crack from vibration and the wind blowing over it opened the crack and pulled the monokote off. I'm not saying that this is gospel and it's what happened, but rather just a possibility. Sometimes there is absolutely nothing you can do to save a plane. Sometimes it's like the Plane Gods are recalling the plane and you are powerless to save it. Stuff happens. I'm not trying to be cold-hearted about it, just saying that it can and does happen.

Once again, I am really sorry about you loss. I know how hard it is. About 4 years ago I had a Dave Patrick Ultimate bipe that I just flat out loved. I had about 100 flights on the plane when the plane gods recalled it. Actually, to be completely honest about it, it was more of a dumb thumbs on my part. Doing a knife edge circle and got disoriented on the back side and dumb thumb it right into the ground. Walking out and picking it up almost made me puke seeing totalled on the ground. On the way home I kept looking in my rear view mirror and I could see the remains in the bed of my truck and I made up my mind at that time that I was finished with flying. That's how much it hurt. Luckily my flying buddy knew how much it got to me and he took me to lunch the next day and talked me out of quitting, and I'm glad to this day that he did that. But what I'm trying to say is that I do know exactly how you are feeling right now. I know it hurts. Just hang in there, and get a new plane to fly, it'll be ok.

Hope this helps

Ken

Without seeing pictures, I would say that the covering was damaged in the area where it gave way. Two of our club members have Kyosho planes and both have suffered the covering ripping at locations other than the seam. Tha damage could be as simple as sagging covering ripping do to the covering fluttering in the airsteam. I would suggest this before I would suggest that the covering just gave way in a no seam/glue related area.

Thanks, Ken. I'm dealing with it OK. In fact, a friend of mine wondered why I wasn't more upset. I take the attitude that stuff is just stuff and can always be replaced. It's a little tougher because of family history, but I f I was really that concerned, I shouldn't fly it. And it was meant to be flown.

-Scott

Maybe your dad was ticked off that you were flying his plane?

Sorry, for making jokes but laughter IS the best medicine

First, somebody smack Ken, THERE ARE NO BUGS IN MINNESOTA IN THE WINTER!!!! (It's the only good thing ABOUT winters here! LOL)

My guess is (as others have said) Something was amiss - be it a hole, a wrinkle, or a bug (Maybe a flying ice crystal?). Now combine that with the fact that MK is brittle to begine with, AND the fact that your wind-chill factor was probably in the neighborhood of a billion degrees below zero, and I can easily see how a chunk of covering blew off.

All that had to happen was to get a little airflow inside the wing and it would blow up like a balloon - combine that with brittle covering and POW!

Bummer about the loss though.

Sorry to hear of your loss, especially considering your father built it when he was still with us.

As RCKen says, it's always tough, and disecting the facts afterwards isn't much of a consolation, although it could be argued that it's a sort of "councilling".

It's already been suggested that the Monokote was holed/damaged in some way and the high airspeed you would have achieved in your final manouver could have been what it took to finish the covering off. I would tend to agree with this theory.

In future, it may be worth using either the old fashioned techniques (eg doped on fabric) which to my mind are still the best way, or at least an iron on fabric such as Solartex (which I've found to be tough and durable) instead of plastic film. The reason is that when punctured/ripped, the fabrics are much more resilient to catastrophic failures as you suffered than the plastic films are.

Although it's still possible to tear along the fabric it takes much more force than it does to pull plastic film apart once it gets started.

Once again, sorry to hear of your loss.

Good points, all. I'm not too concerned. Just wanted to throw it out there and see what the pundits think. The weak spot in the covering is certainly a likely cause. I was probably descending a little fast as well.

BTW, some of you might be thinking "he's just looking for a technical excuse to cover up pilot error." I'll be the first to admit pilot error. I've made my share (although none with such drastic results). This one wasn't one of them, allthough I have started a little second guessing . . . "maybe if I had just chopped the throttle as soon as it happened", etc. It all happened too quick for my slow reaction.

-Scott

Yea, don't beat yourself up over it. You can "If I only" yourself to death over the loss of a great plane.

I still think "If I had just chopped the throttle, I wouldn't have crashed that nice Cub"... And that was in 1988!

WAK,,,[sm=punching.gif][sm=lol.gif]

I would look into building another airplane just like it. You mentioned that it was a 70's model - you might be able to find plans for it somewhere - perhaps you still have them from that particular airplane. You cannot unring the bell, but perhaps if you built another - you could in some way rebuild what you had and the desire that your dad had to build the plane in the first place.

Bryris-

I might do that eventually. You can actually still find the kits on e-bay. For now, I have a Skybolt that I am building (slowly) that will have to suffice.

Again, thanks for the kind words.

-Scott

Oh my Gosh, Bubbagates , how dare you resolve to an act of such violence against a gentleman of such high reguard as RcKen. RcKen is a thorough gentleman of such high esteem, a human encyclopedia of all things pertaining to model avaition. He is always here with words of wisdom, encouragement, and condolences when we loose a precious model. His skills in building and piloting are of the highest standard >>>>{shall i continue?????????} lol. Now we will have to revive RcKen with a wiff of methonal, laced with nitro and added castor oil, and place him back on the pedistal reserved for Moderators Personofied.
Now seriously , jagnweiner, sorry about your model, i know how you feel , having experienced something simmilar. The post mortem showed that a stone had been flung from the runway to the underside of the wings , thereby creating a small hole which was agrivated during flight manouvers to the point of creating the failure of the wing. These are just some of the things we have to contend with in our hobby though . So i will sign of wishing you all fine weather for daily flights and continued friendship.
Bill , the_madgenius down-under in sunny Australia

I'm working on a Bronze Statue of Ken as we speak

[X(] [:'(]

Hmmm, since I'm not posing for said statue can I only assume that it will be less than flattering???

Ken

I'm just having a hard time getting the Clock in the belly

Ahhhhhh,,, it is with great relief to see that RcKen has survived that devasting attack by Bubbagates That miracle wonder drug, non other than the fumes of methonal, the life giving fortification so relied upon by all members of the model aircraft flying fraternity, has won again. It is with many thanks we cheer the skills of MinnFlyer , who in his wisdom , has taken upon himself the task of casting a bronze statue of our illustrious Moderator , RcKen.
>
>
>
ummmmm,,, am i still allowed to be a proud member of this remarkable forum ?????/
Bill, the-madgenius down-under in Australia