I know it's way too early for me to start flying a second plane after soloing a couple weeks ago,but I want to start building so by the time I competely master my Nexstar I'll have a plane ready in the hangar for flying.I'm gonna go with a ARF since I don't really have the time to commit and the only thing I've ever built is 2 little model rockets and little balsa rubber band plane.I will get everything new meaning new engine and new radio system and new plane. For the radio I want to go for a Futaba 7c as I believe it will last me a long time.I want to get everythig piece by piece and go slowly meaning not everything first. Maybe kit first then an engine then the radio system then other components I'll need. All while building this plane I'll be flying with my Nexstar.I want a tail dragger so
I've got it down to:
1. Sig Four Star 60 because of all suggestions here on RCU.
2. Hangar 9 Ultra Stick 60 because people say it's a nice sport plane and second plane.
3. Sig Rascal 40 because it's so good-looking.

How about some help for a newbie and keep in mind I have never built a model airplane.


Thanks
Sean

Sean,

Here's the real deal. Get yourself a Sig 4*60, either a Thunder Tiger/Magnum .91 four stroke engine, get a couple APC 14x6 props, buy a medium sized sullivan tail wheel brack setup and you'll be all set. Once you get it flown, you'll thank me.

Best of luck.

Sean welcome to a great hobby. The only thing you may want to consider is that the Rascal will not as durable as the other two. But I agree, it is the prettiest of the three.

Be aware of JAS. Jealous Airplane Syndrome. Your Nextstar will begin to behave poorly once you introduce a second plane to your hangar. The only cure is to add more planes.

Goodluck Good flying

Sean,

I will second Cruzomatic's reply. You will have a blast with a Four Star 60/ .91 four stroke combo. If you want to build a kit, it's one of the easiest there is to build as a first kit. If not, the ARF version goes together in two or three evenings.

It's nice to see the Rascal on your list -- beautifull birds -- & great fliers.

Any of your potential choices would work, but I'd go for the Rascal just out of nostalgia. That would be a forever keeper.

Mmmmmm,
where do you want to go with your flying?

Do you want to stay with easy planes or do you have an interest in aerobatics, speed, warbirds?

I'd steer you toward either the 4*60 or the Stick as well.

When you get to a full-up building project, you might be surprised at how quickly a good kit goes together. (And right now, you should have a bit of time before you need the second-plane plane. Because if something happens to your primary trainer anytime real soon, it's a sign that a repair job or a new primary trainer would be a good thing to do, so the second-plane plane shouldn't be needed for a little while yet.)

I told you that so I could tell you this: if you build, consider the BTE Venture 60 over the 4*60. The SIG kit is good, it builds into an excellent plane, and its design comes directly from the works of Bruce Tharpe... The Venture is an outstanding kit with the best machine-cut parts on the market; it builds into a plane that is based on the 4*60 but better, incorporating improvements by the 4* series' originator, Bruce Tharpe. Especially with limited kit building experience, the Venture is a real pleasure to build.

Also note that the Rascal is a 3-channel plane. It has no ailerons.

Of course, you could always add them, but it's generally not a good idea to do any modifications till you have a little more building experience.

Minn,

I think you're talking about the smaller versions of the Rascal. I got this from the the Sig website for the Rascal 40 with the 72 in wingspan.
4 channel radio system with 5 standard servos for rudder/elevator/aileron/throttle operation

Mmmmmm,
where do you want to go with your flying?

Do you want to stay with easy planes or do you have an interest in aerobatics, speed, warbirds?


I don't want stay with easy planes. I am very interested in aerobatic and warbird models like Extras and Caps and P-51s....Thanks for asking.

I agree with Cruzomatic, go with the 4* no matter what direction you plan on going with your flying

Told ya!

Wow, it looks like a lot of people like the Four Star. I'm a little concerned about the visibility factor of the four star in the air. Are they easy to see or you just add a strip of different colored covering to one of the wing panels an it will be okay?

Cruz,

Are there any modeifications needed for the 91 four stroke to fit with the stock engine mount or are there mods needed. It would be really nice if the four stroke would just slip in with the stock set up.

What do you guys think of radio selection and is it okay to just go for some regular servos to keep the cost down like the Futaba S3003s or do I have to get digital servos?


Thanks a lot,
Sean

Well, I'll go along with the plane but stay away from a fourstroke at this point. Your "honing" your skills here. Fourstroke engines are not as forgiving in a crash as a 2 stroke and more expensive. I suggest a 60 size like he said but maybe with a ST 61, TT61pro or something. Having the fourstar will give you low wing time and they are an easy fly.

Make sure you keep your trainer, you might need it because accidents do happen and that will give you something to fly while your building another plane.

As far as visibility goes. Don't get all stupid about it. "Designs" don't show up well. Put a 6 inch wide white stripe on the top outer edge of each wing and you should be fine.

When it comes to the covering design, the MFG's a morons on it. I have rebuilt or recovered many of my planes and I always make the bottom of the wing solid white, regardless of the rest of the colors. This is what works for me.

7c is a good radio. Holds 10 planes. Keep all your planes on the same frequency. Makes life much easier.

There are no modifications needed for the 4 stroke installation. Oh, you'll need to drill a hole in the firewall opposite the stock hole that is drilled, but that'll take you a whole 2 minutes probably.

Standard servos are all that are needed for the plane. As for radio selection, that's entirely up to you. I'd get a computer one though. Hitec, Futaba, JR, etc all make great radios. Me,,,personally, I fly with a Hitec Eclipse 7, but that's just me. If my wife asked you which radio do I buy my wonderful, glorious, loving, #1, handsome, best, hardworking, dedicated, supportive husband, you'd better tell her a Futaba 9cap. Oh,,,channel 57.

As for colors, I added some white stripes to mine to help with orientation. Made a lot of differance. I have a great pic of it showing the color difference on the bottom, but at work now and unable to post it.

Adding just a bit more on the radio,

The agree the Futaba 7cap is a great radio. To keep cost down, I first started with a Hitec Flash 4 and quickly out grew it as I'm really hooked in this hobby and my fleet quickly grew as my wife thinks out of control. If you think you might stick with it and grow a fleet like all of us other addicts, buy as much radio as you can afford. I've purchased three radios upgrading model memory and channels every time. Don't consider digital servos with this plane, save them for long down the road.

Hi Sean,

I can't disagree with any of the advice you have been given including that on four strokes from Cyclic Hardover. However you need to think where you want to go with your flying if you want to move to pattern/sports I would add a TF Contender to the options. If you want to go 3D there are some simple profile kits and plans that are cheap to build. If speed is your thing maybe a Q500 not a delta yet. The options are boundless.

I hope your enthusiasm for the hobby continues.

Cheers,


Colin

So... a low or mid wing plane that is capable of good aerobatics. There has been a lot of advice in that direction already.

What about a more pattern aerobatic style plane, like a Javelin or Venus, or something from Camodel? They are supposed to fly in a predictable way.

Go crazy, get an aerobatic electric foamy like the GWS Formosa. Electrics in that size do not cost a fortune and you can fly them in more places than you can a big glow plane. I know people who fly big aerobatic planes, turbines and fast gliders; and also small electrics for getting stick time close to home.

The 4* are an easy fly but have to be slowed to almost a standstill to get it to stop flying. This makes it a lousy low wing trainer if your next plane is going to be a warbird. I know its not on your narrowed list but maybe take a look at a Carl Goldberg Tiger 2. The landing is a more positive approach. Its glide path is more solid and predictable and it comes so that you can set it up as either a trike gear or tail dragger. You can start as a trike and then switch to tail dragger once you get used to how it flys. [8D]

I think if your past the point of crashing often, a 4-stroke wouldnt be a bad idea. Im a saito man myself...but thats just me

Aside from the occasional need to adjust the valves, they are far easier to deal with than a 2stroke...and sound better, and sip the fuel...and sound better...and can be setup with smoke systems...and sound better

they sound better too...

I strongly suggest that if you do decide to order a 4 stroke then order a tach at the same time. The sound difference between rpms on a 4 stroke is more subtle than 2 strokes which could make carb adjusting more difficult. Once you get used to them, owners say that they can tune them by ear as good as the 2 strokes. Not owning a 4 stroke myself, I'll have to take their word for it. For me I don't need a tach for the basic tuning but it helps for the final tweaking. [8D]

Yeah, definatly get a tach...your supposed to keep the rpm down in the 4000s for break-in or below...i was running 7000 rpm...and i thought i was safe....then i tached it...wow...its definatly harder to tell...

I thought ahead and had gotten a tach before I even got my trainer so go figure!I'm really starting to lean against the Four Star 60. I know you guys mentioned the Tiger 60 ,but since none of my LHSs carry Goldberg planes I'm afraid If I get one online then crash or something I won't have any other place to get spare parts other than the internet and I don't like that idea.

I was just thinking about the Four Stroke and where is the place for the glow plug and ni-starter.Also where is the carbureator on the four strokes?


Thanks a lot,
Sean

As well stated above the 4* is the #2 plane of choice around here. But why not get the best one available? You also stated that this will be your first full build, & while the 4* is reputed to build easy, the Venture 60 will build even easier & is a better kit. Do youself a favor & read what the man who designed the 4* for Sig has to say about his Venture 60 kits. In a nutshell it is the same plane only better. He addresses some of the shortcomings of his original design of the 4* & with that in mind eliminated these shortcomings & bad characteristics when he re-designed it as the Venture 60. I don't think you'll find a higher quality kit on the market. Every piece is sanded to a perfect fit leaving no laser-cut scorch marks to sand off. It's all done for you before it goes in the box every piece is machine sanded to an exact fit. I believe it will be the easiest nicest kit for a first timer to build. It will definately be the one I start with. Bruce only does so many kits in a run because of the attention to detail & the quality of each kit that he demands. He just sent me an email the other day to let me know the new run of kits are now available again, but they won't last long. Ppl wait to get their hands on one. Act fast & you might get one.


http://www.btemodels.com/venture.html


Check out his site. Read what he has to say about the making of these kits. And the Venture 60 vs 4* link. I think you'll be impressed. I certainly am!

By the way a Saito will look sweet sitting in that Venture!!


http://www.venture60.com/


This is another site that is not affiliated with Bruce Tharpe Enterprises, just a Venture 60 enthusiast with pics that Venture owners all over the country have sent him to display on his site. Lots of different color schemes & engine set-ups, There are some beautiful Ventures to look at. Have fun, check it out & see what you could have if you want to.

I have a saito .91 waiting for my venture as we speak.

Im at the point of covering and hinging. Im doing a crap job on the covering part, and i hate hinging...

The build was awesome though, i have built a 4-star, and now this venture, and there are 2 big differences.

1)Kit quality. Its not even a comparison. You dont have to break out the sandpaper until your ready to cover, the kit is already perfect! All pieces fit the first time without any trouble at all or modification.

2)Instructions. Having built both, i can see this clearly. Bruce put alot more time into the instructions than they did with the 4-star. There are multiple places in the construction of a 4-star where you have to work in a tight space that you built 3 or 4 steps previous. Bruce has put alot of thought into the order of building, and i found not one instance of wishing i had done a latter step before a former.

If you do get the venture, do yourself a favor and pick up the dual-aileron conversion and the wheel pants. Dual ailerons make controll better and give you options like flaperons...the the wheelpants...well...they're wheelpants...pretty!

No if i can just get around to picking up my rx and battery for the plane, a couple of servo extentions and finish covering this bad boy, it will be in the air


And to answer your question about the 4-stroke. The glow plug is in about the same place. I know saito "leans" the plug away from the prop (much like the evolution 2-stoke motors) which is nice cause you dont have to reach so close to the prop to get the glow-driver off. The carb is behind the engine, and upside down (at least in Saitos, dont know about the others). I like this, cause it makes flooding the carb impossible, because its upside down to excess full just drips out, and the fact that its behind the motor makes it less susceptable (totally spelled that wrong...i know) to debris getting in it...

and they sound better.

See, Now that's what I'm talking about with the 4* vs Venture. And you can see from the pic he put up, with the Saito you get a Venture with a miniature Harley motor hanging off it.