Hey all,
I have bought a P-51 pts and went ahead and bought the G3 flight sim with the interlink controller. I am asking because after a day of trial and error i have been flying for almost a week and the only crashes that i have are with the turbine powered jets(way to fast!!) I can not seem the see those and react quick enough. The mustang that is in the sim is a breeze. I even enjoy the Yak-54. Just have a hard time believing that a plane will react like that. That is why i want a opinion on the sim. I have not flown or even started the p-51 yet.

The sim is somewhat close...but there are 2 things all the sims fall short on..

1 is the randomness of the wind

the other is the pucker factor

I have the P51 and also G3 And your right about the jets! but I think the monitor is too small to keep track of them, but as far as the similarity from sim to real time pretty close.
Although, always remember out there in real time there are climate changes wind directions etc. the sim is good to practice flaps uses, rudder, stick control, coming and going to and and away from you, landing and take off experience. one thing that is very different ! on the sim your knees don't shake when you take it up for the few first time I would recommend to get an instructor to check out you plane set up, and training< Join a club and get your AMA.
Good Luck.
roltech

Like others will say ... and we all suggets ... learn with an instructor ... there is no substitute (opinion)

For me, I soloed two weeks ago after about 2 months with an instructor. I bought G3 when I started the hobby (again, about 2 months ago). By the end of 2 months, I felt really, really, really cocky on G3. I limited myself to only flying the same simulated plane as I have in reality (I used the NextStar when I have a SuperStar). When I could take off, land and circle each and every time ... I continued to practice, practice, practice till it got boring ... and I mean *really* boring ... to the point where I could do it almost without thinking. I changed paramters like wind direction and wind speed and engine stalls (use the K key).

When I could do this, I then *experimented* with other techniques such as flying inverted ...

When I soloed, it did indeed feel very, very, very much like the simulator with the exception that the *human factor* of having no big red reset button came into play. A crash would be a one shot deal.

Flying is very much like the simulator but landing was very different. My field is a grass strip and I seem to bounce far more in reality than in the sim.

But ... and here is the thing ... on the Sim I practiced flying inverted (up is down etc etc) until it too was well understood. On only my second flight after soloing I took the plane to 3 mistakes high and tried flying inverted ... no problems ... and exactly as predicted by the simulator. There would have been NO way I could have achieved that as quickly without a Sim or detailed instruction.

My opinion is that a Sim is very worth it but no substitute for initial tutoring by an instructor.

Neil

As an instructor I can tell you that flight simulators are very good and very bad at the same time. If you use the simulator in conjunction with what your instructor is teaching you each session then they are fantastic and can help reduce the time that it takes to for you to learn to fly. If you use the simulator on your own and then go to an instructor they can be very bad because it's very easy to learn bad habits. Since these bad habits will have to be "un-learned" your time to solo will probably increase. I've had students that I have started to teach have some of the worst habits I have seen because of the time they had spent on the simulator, it easily doubled the time it took me to teach them to fly. But if you go home after each lesson and practice what your instructor has taught you that lesson, then you're going to be ahead of the power curve. Let your instructor know that you have a simulator at home, most good instructors will use the simulator to help you learn by giving you things to work on while you are at home.

Hope this helps.

Ken

RCKen
Care to share some of those bad habits so I can learn to avoid them while Im practicing on the sim? As it is right at the moment its the only thing I can do.
Thanks
-Mike

Skillet92, when I see posts in this forum where new pilots think they have a handle on this flying stuff before they have ever actually flown I generally roll my eyes and mutter "Yeah, right." You may actually be on of the few naturals that take to flying very quickly, but even the "naturals" have flying "events" they would like to forget.

If you have good eye-hand coordination and don't suffer from orientation issues, you will pick up on general flying around very quickly. From the sounds of your post, I think that is you, which will speed your learning. HOWEVER, there is a lot more to flying than avoiding impacts with mother earth.

If the flying around seems simple, I suggest you move up to the following practice exercises.

Fly large figure 8's, i.e. a large left hand turn followed by a large right hand turn (abd vice versa.) Do this while holding a constant bank, altitude and speed. Try to keep multiple 8's exactly the same, i.e. have one part that always crosses the end of the runway, etc.

Practice flying slow. One tell-tale sign of inexperienced pilots is they fly everything wide open.

Practice landings on the runway. Do some dead stick. In G3 I think you can press "k" or "e" or something to kill the engine. If possible, have some one else randomly kill the engine for you so you can't "prepare." Also try some dead sticks right after takeoff.

Practice stalls and spins. On some, get up high, then spin and close your eyes and wait a bit. When you open your eyes regain control of the plane.

When all that seems easy, do it with wind and gusts. That should keep you entertained for a while.

As for sims, they are very useful for learning. But if you have access to an instructor, you should use both. In general, the sim is easier then real life because the sim has perfectly built planes in a perfect sky. They can give a false sense of confidence. But even so, Sims are very good tools and really never outlive their usefulness as you can use them to safely learn more advanced maneuvers, aerobatics, etc.

Good luck and enjoy your new hobby!

Hey all,
I don't know if if a am a natural. but it does seem easy and i have been praciticing slow and inverted flight with no problems. I have not tried the dead stick landings and i know that i need to. As for the instructor i have tried once before years ago by myself and learned the hard way. I WILL be getting an instructor and joining a club. I have built and raced Gas and electric cars and buggies and have always wanted to get into planes. One thing the sim showed me that i did wrong years ago was that when you turn you need to use the elevator. And as for the hand eye cordination. Try xbox online in any of the fighting games and if you do not have it or learn it you will suck.

Here are a few things that I have seen, but please don't take this as the end all be all gospel of what to avoid. There are lots of different things that can learned incorrectly.

1) Failing to keep the plane straight during takeoff run.
2) Climbing out too steep.
3) Not maintaining a constant altitude while turning.
4) Turns that aren't smooth, too sharp, etc.
5) Forgetting that there is a left stick.
6) Not lining up with the runway during landing approach.
7) Using ailerons instead of rudder to make course corrections when landing.
8) Using the elevator to extend the landing when you realize you're short.
9) Failure to learn the signs that a plane is about to stall, and what to do to avoid it, or recover from it.

Ken

You've received good advice from John and Ken, and it sounds like you've got a good handle on what you need to do. In addition to what they said, the biggest thing I learned from my instructors was to fly smooth. It's not too difficult to bang the sticks from side to side, pull the stick all the way back (and never reduce the throttle) to make a loop, etc. It's much harder to make nice big round loops and wide smooth turns while maintaining a constant altitude.

This is the start of prime flying seasons in these parts, when the wind isn't too bad, get hooked up with your instructor and start flying!

Yes.

Ditto

This brings up another common mistake I see beginners make. They will move the stick and then let go of the stick and let the springs return the stick to it's center position. Bad, bad, bad. This causes lots of problems. First of which is that the springs will actually move the stick past center before actually centering the stick, which will translate into movement in the plane. Next is that now your fingers have to "find" the stick again, this means that there is time that you don't have any control of the plane because your hands aren't on the controls. It's also very possible to move the stick when you put your fingers back on it again, once again causing movement in the plane. What needs to happen is that when you move the stick you then need to smoothly move it back to the center position after you are done with your maneuver.

Hope this helps

Ken

There is a left stick? [X(] Now this is one I am guilty of but I can't blame sims. I have never been taught to fly, I taught myself with a sim and have flown for several years now. But I could lob of my rudder and I think it is just my style. I have used the rudder before and if I am doing things like hovering, have to use it. But for casual to aggressive flying without doing fancy tricks and such, I have no use for a rudder.

Skillet92, your gamesphere and RC car background will help a lot. My gut tells me you will indeed pick up on flying quickly. So, you may already be in what we call the danger zone, even if you haven't flown for real yet. The "zone", which we all have been thru, is when you have 95% of the skills needed for everyday flying, but then the 5% comes up a bites ya. It generally happens shortly after pilots have soloed and start to try new things (another good reason to try that stuff on the sim first.) You shouldn't be afraid of pushing your limits as that is the only way to get better, but it is always better to err on the side of caution. When you actually take to the air, my suggestion is to tone down, or be more cautious, than what you can pull off in the sim. Get a feel for how the plane is different than the sim. Do things a bit higher than what you do in the sim, etc. You're doing the right thing by getting an instructor and joining a club. Glad to have you in the hobby and I think you will find flying much more entertaining than RC cars and vid games. Cheers.

The guys make a lot of good points here..
However, I too am an experienced instructor and I have yet to teach a student to fly that did not benefit tremendously from a flight simulator before coming to me. Guys that come to me and have been working hard on a flight sim are already able to fly reasonably comfortably, so teaching them NOT to do the things on the list of potential bad habits is a piece of cake.
Give me the choice, I will take an open minded student that wants to learn who has been flying the sim ANYDAY over a totally new pilot although I love to teach both. What can be difficult is a student who has flown the sim who thinks they have it all figured out and does not want to listen. But that person isnt going to listen either way.

The biggest thing the sim cant reproduce accurately is taking off and landing. It teaches you the basic principles, but you dont get the feel of depth and the challenges that you face when handling a real model plane.

GET A SIM!! I recommend AFPD. I has taken me to new levels of skill that I never would have thought I could reach.

I do agree that popping the sticks is a horrible habit. Nothing drives me crazier than hearing the springs pop and watching the plane roughly maneuver. I must admit that I did it too when I started out.

I was teaching long before PC's and the graphic interface.

There is simply no comparison, sims help tremendously.

Its true, you will still need an instructor. Part of trianing is critiquing a student's flight and correcting a student's bad habits. That was true before sims and it is still true.

I think this is the best I've read so far regarding Flight Sim. I have used it and I have never flown my model in real time like I did with the sim. I use as experience with the sim is what the control stick do automatically in real time, one thing I might add is I know that some who has never had an instructor or sim that actually keep it in the air, take off and land not so good! but still in one piece , but as I know with experience that he will soon crash just by watching it's just a matter of time (soon), You should have an instructor, if not possible be with someone with some experience to give you good advise and check out the model setup and ready to take over the TX. The sim is no match to real time! at least I can't compare it.

roltech

MikeEast,
You are exactly correct and I should have pointed that out in my post. Just because you use the sim before you find an instructor doesn't mean you will pick up bad habits. I was just pointing out that it can and does happen that was sometimes.

Ken

No doubt Ken.. The sim can lead to terrible habits. I have seen guys use all sorts of techniques to handle the sticks and some who are satisfied with some really ugly ways of getting a plane from point A to point B. Most are not a huge deal unless you get into competitive precision flying. Bad habits are exponentially magnified at that point.

I still fly with thumbs but I'm working to learn to fly with thumb and forefinger. Its clear to see that the guys who use the pinch technique or place their thumb on top of the stick and wrap their index finger around it have much better touch than I do. Im determined to make the switch and I will eventually.

To me there are two really bad and potentially fatal bad habits that folks use regarding takeoff.
1. Using ailerons to correct instead of rudder to setup for final approach. However, rudder is something you have to learn to finesse. Too much and you can snap right into the ground if you add in too much #2.
2. Using elevator to control rate of descent on landing approach. THROTTLE is the correct tool to use to set approach speed and angle/rate of descent.

If you want to land in 1 piece, learn to make 1 click corrections on the throttle to setup your approach. Only use the elevator in TINY moves and none if possible until the plane is over the runway and less than 4' off the ground ready to flare. This all comes down to your setup for your turn to final approach. You need to learn to judge the wind so that you are at the right altitude and right distance out.

Here is a bit of a success story. My little brother started playing with my old sim. I was able to give him a little instruction and pointers while he was playing with the sim. I made sure that he did not get into any bad habbits. The kid pretty much soloed on his first flight. I had the buddy box connected and did not have to use it. The transmitter was his on the second flight.

He spent some more time on the sim and within a month he was flying my Sky Raider Mach 2 and my Me-109. He wasn't only flying them but performing rolling cirlces, point rolls, stall turns, and others. He took what he saw others doing and practiced it. Within a couple of months he was flying like he had flown for years.

I'm not saying that every one is like that, but I am now one to believe that a simulator is well worth it. It also helps during the winter to keep the cobwebs out of the mind. You can put in a lot of time on the sim over a weekend versus an hour flight time with the real thing.

Do have an instructor there for the first time out.