H5487

I've got a question that is sure to generate some opinions...

When it comes to learning to fly R/C, do licensed pilots make better or worse students? By that, I mean does our understanding of big plane aerodynamics help? Or does our arrogance make learning difficult? :-)

piper_chuck

My Feedback: (12)

A little of both. The biggest hurdles seem to be the complete lack of feedback that you get from being in the plane and the one common to everyone, figuring out how to move the stick when the plane is coming toward you.

exeter_acres

My Feedback: (2)

this just what I have seen....in my little corner of the world

worse.....reasons piper stated... and can't handle the "out of the cockpit" perspective

vt325xi

I am a student pilot in the real airplanes and my flight instructor a CFI is a student pilot in R/C planes. I brought him to the flying field with his brand new Hobbico Nexstar trainer plane. I showed him all that he needs to do in order to fly safely. We set my Hitec Eclipse Spectrum radio on his frequency and my radio as master, then his radio was the student. I gave him full control of everything from the taxiing to the takeoff to the flying and then a couple approaches. When he was felling comfortable with it, I told him to try landing the plane. He did with minimal problems.

Now something to be aware of. He had used the simulator a lot that comes with the Nexstar. This way he was familiar with the changes of the controls as the plane is flying away or toward him. The plane had the Futaba PA-2 autopilot. I was ready at any moment to take over in case he got into some trouble on the master controls. The plane was an excellent flyer with loads of power and control surface authority. The major problem he ran into was that he flew it like a Cessna 172. At the numbers on the downwind he brought the power back slightly and then only when he was on final he cut the power. The problem was the planes glide slope is very long. I eventually convinced him that the power should be cut opposite the numbers on the downwind and fly it like a real one. The plane then landed right where he wanted it too.

Somewhere I have a video of him flying the plane on his maiden dual instruction. Since then he has flown it with good results many times solo. He went on to purchase a Hobbico SU-31 Sukhoi and is enjoying that as well.

So in answer to your question a licensed pilot with a small amount of assitance can do just fine. Go for it!

BTW, I got a free hour of flight lesson on my next time out with him.

rwright142

I flew ultralights and was a BFI - basic flight instructor and I will admit that it was a definite disadvantage. As already noted, flying from outside the cockpit is more difficult. Sure, I know W&B, CG/CL, and the aerodynamics of flight, but controlling the plane from the ground was a new experience for me. Many traits do carry over though. I am very meticulous about pre/post flights, I exercise caution at every trip to the field, and while flying, etc.
The hardest for me was getting used to flying with the plane coming towards me. I used to wear my Excalibur ultralight and flying was fun because I could sense and feel every maneuver, but not I have to see the maneuver to feel it.
I don't think it is a permanent disability , it will just take me more stick time than most. The simulators do help.

Good luck!

Cyclic Hardover

My Feedback: (3)

The only difference i can see is that a licensed pilot will have and understanding as to how things work but i doubt he could fly the plane with a transmitter any better than a rookie.

Take me, been flying R/C 10 years now (Planes). I flew Helicopters in the Military for 20 years. I obviously understand the concept on the R/C helicopter and need no instruction in that area at all. However I can't fly that thing any better than any other new guy. I'm fooling with it right now on "Real Flight" doing pretty good but it's not a natural gift.

daveopam

My Feedback: (9)

I have buddy boxed three full scale pilots. For the most part it helps. For one they understand the lingo. I have had one problem with all three. That is they all want to turn with rudder. Well maybe it's not a problem but I start my students turning with AILE and ELEV only.

David

exeter_acres

My Feedback: (2)

add to my earlier comment... it just takes a little work... but yes.. a "real" pilot can do just fine

JPMacG

My Feedback: (2)

I soloed full scale in a Cessna 150 with about 8 hours of instruction (at age 19). I loged about 200 hours including some IFR and aerobatic training before work, family, and finances forced me to quit. I soloed RC after about 6 months of instruction (at age 45). I think my RC instruction time was greater than 9 hours and I was no better a student than someone without full-scale experience. I had problems with orientation and the lack of seat-of-the-pants feedback, and no airspeed indicator, altimeter, RPM, etc.

Once soloed, I think I progressed more quickly than the average RCer without full scale experience. I probably understand aerodynamics and the use of the controls better than most RC-only pilots because of my full-scale experience. I think RC-only pilots would benefit from reading through a full scale flight instruction manual or taking a private pilot course at the local airport.

So there's my 2 cents.

britbrat

Yes & yes. The knowledge of flight dynamics is a definite advantage. Arrogance is a personal trait & some folks sure have it -- it can definately get in the way.

I sometimes deal with the really arrogant turkeys by flying the model a safe distance away & letting them do their thing -- without help -- including recovering the pieces.

red head

Pilots are no big problem to teach, if you can get past their EGO !!

I have a statement about teaching that I think might fit here.

The hardest student an instructor can get is :: someone over 55, that has either owned their own business or been in charge of one AND has a pilots license.

Take it for what it's worth but after a few years of instructing you will understand. ENJOY !!! RED

B.L.E.

One way to break down the arrogance and convince them that it is not the same as flying a full scale plane is to let them try an RC car and watch them run it into stuff. Hey, haven't we all driven full scale cars nearly all of our adult lives?

JPMacG

My Feedback: (2)

One other observation I have is that full scale pilots seem to stick with RC longer. Once they see that RC planes are realistic and not just toys they tend to develop a real long lasting interest. Non full-scale pilots often try RC for a year or two, lose interest, and disappear from our club.

So even if full scall pilots are a PITA at first, they are worth the effort to train.

Live Wire

It is kind of funny but I think an RC Pilot can learn full scale faster than a Full scale can learn RC and I have Flown both and yes there is a great difference.

piper_chuck

My Feedback: (12)

This is probably true. I had no trouble figuring out how to fly my father's Cessna 172.

Scar

My Feedback: (3)

Back to the original question (and I'm not at all discounting what Red Head said), that question is do they make better or worse students. From the several I've seen, a fullscale pilot who chooses to seek assistance makes a great student. I think the consensus is that many fullscale pilots do not choose to seek assistance, and fare no better than others of that inclination.

I have also had three students who were returning to the hobby after some time absent, and they were all great to work with.

Best wishes,
Dave Olson

sigrun

You just answered your own question.

IME from having been a dedicated aviation 'junkie' for as long as I can remember and subsequently professional for 30 years plus rated instructor in both genres, it depends entirely upon the attitude and demeanour of the individual.

Arrogance, regardless of the studs background, will impede lesson assimilation.

Generally, a competent qualified pilot makes a better RC student and has the potential for faster overall progress. The biggest asset or liability to rate of acquisition of the pre-requisite co-ordination skills required in RC however, regardless of background, is age. Being a natural sportsman with good co-ordination is another.

sigrun

You brought a wry smile to my face britbrat.

Although I'd usually have a heart to heart earlier in debrief stating point blank the pointlessness of and that I simply won't continue to instruct them without them enthusiastically applying an attitudinal re-alignment, I have also found your methodology an effective technique - when said types fail to respond to effective instruction and insist they will land off a hopeless approach regardless. No not "I didn't hear you" load shedding. Just plain old arrogant obstinacy.

sigrun

I concur, these guys are either an absolute PITA to train - or not. There's seldom an in between. They're the same in the full size (learning) cockpit BTW - sans the license. It's the personality type that dominates and impedes learning rather than the previous aviation experience.

andrew66

just skimming through this and i couldnt agree more about the above satement. i had a bad day at work, and my boss is one of those arrogant guys (although not over 55) and pretty much impossible to deal with! i think that it doesnt matter whether or not you have fullscale experience or a degree in aerospace engineering, or anything for that matter. its the will to learn that makes a successful student.

Mode One

I believe that having flying experience of any kind helps the process along. Having flown R/C first, is very helpful to a new full scale pilot (at least it was for me). Maybe convincing the full scale pilot that he will need help is the difficult proposition. They tend to think "I know how to do this in a real airplane and after all, this is a toy"!

Once they understand this, I would guess most full scale pilots will learn quicker than someone whom has no flying experience what so ever.

Lowlevlflyer

My Feedback: (3)

I've been a full scale pilot since '91, and have been flying professionally ever since. I just got into RC flying a little over a year ago, but have been interested in it for a long time. When I decided to go ahead and try it, I was just like most other arrogant pilots. Shoot, I've got almost 4,000 hours flying real airplanes, I can handle this with NO problem. Went out, bought myself a shiney little Sig Somethin' Extra with a Saito 56 and all the radio and support gear I needed, and decided to try and teach myself to fly that little bad boy. Got the radio gear set up, tuned the engine, and took it out to the local airport for my first flight. Long story short, that flight lasted about 45 seconds, and I brought home a box of sticks. Right after that, I had some personal issues to deal with, and didnt fly again for about 6 months. During that time, however, I DID make the smart decision to buy a trainer, and I put together a LT40 which I converted to a taildragger. I discovered RCU AND a local club during that time also, and through posting on this website, got acquainted with a guy (twistr) and his dad who was a member of that club who offered to teach me to fly RC. I had already had my "pilot's pride" broken by my first attempt at RC flying, so I was all ears and ready to learn. The only advantages that I found I had by being an experienced full scale pilot were the fact that I know aerodynamics, what forces cause an airplane to fly, how the controls work, etc. The flying was totally different. Like others, the biggest thing I had to deal with was the orientation of the plane coming towards me. After I got over that, the rest was pretty easy. It's been a totally fun ride ever since, even though I have crashed a plane or two. I wouldnt trade the experience for anything, and look forward to many more years of RC.

britbrat

IMO, that one is is right on the money.

CHassan

My Feedback: (13)

Some can be the best students, some can be the worst.
The thoeries and principals, have allowed me to go from RC, to full sized stick and rudder, to weight shift. All of wich I converted to easily.
I have seen pilots from one AC type try to convert to the other and have problems, I've also seen them convert with ease.

tadracket

My Feedback: (1)

On the flip side of this discussion, my first time in an airplane was a Cess 152 and after talking with the pilot on ailerons, rudder, etc, he found my RC experience comfortable enough to give me the stick. I flew down the inside of Oak Island, banked the plane at the point and pulled her around to fly up the beach. Loved it. He let me have her for about 5 minutes and I enjoyed every minute of it. I think he would have let me fly longer but my mom was in the back and starting to freak out. Maybe he should not have swung out of his seat to show her where he lived.