Trainer to Warbird: IT CAN BE DONE!
03-22-2006 | 08:52 AM
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From: Rock Hill,
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Trainer to Warbird: IT CAN BE DONE!
Just thought I would post my experience going from my Alpha 40 to my GP FW-190A. For all you beginners out there (i am only one step above this...well maybe a little more 
) you CAN go from a trainer to a warbird.....but......it isn't for the feint of heart!!! I also did not maiden it, and I had lots of experienced pilots standing over my shoulder giving me "suggestions".
First off, this is NOT recommended, and by no means am I saying you should do this, but I thought it might give you all a little insight and perhaps a chuckle at what to expect....and YES I learned a lot....and YES it isn't easy.....but YES it was a rush!!!!
A little background since I know all of you would be warbird pilots are chomping at the bit to get started....for me, if it isn't a warbird or a 30's racer it isn't worth spending the money on! Now...with that said I DID listen to the folks here and didn't START with a low wing taildragger....I got started in May of last year and the H9 PTS was not available[:@], and of course I couldn't wait, so I got the Alpha since you can do a search on these forums and read about just about all the trainers and at the time there was nothing but praise for the Alpha and me not knowing any better I decided to go with it. I soloed in 3 flights, and spent the summer every weekend flying until the weather turned in November. In February I went on RC universe and bought a GP Fw-190A and a Ben Howard "Ike" '30's racer. I couldn't resist the deals (came with everything(including TX) and the planes built). I was going to buy a "trainer" low wing but I just couldnt' bring myself to do it since I could get that FW-190 for less!
Now to the flying.
I brought the planes to our flying field, and the wind was blowing pretty stiffly (gusting over 20mph and a xwind to boot!) but one of our experienced pilots decided that we should put these planes in the air (I did spend a few days on each plane getting them ready by the way), first the Fw-190, maidened excellently, a little trim needed and flew like it was on rails. Then the "ike", flew like a brick and deadsticked.....and that was that...I am currently stripping off all the old covering and working on lightening the plane up a bit. I'm also going to strip the engine down and soak it in kero(the engine is a ST .90 when it was sold to me as a .60)to try to make it run a little better....and it doesn't hurt.
Now MY flying experience. And NO i didn't even THINK about trying to fly the Ike!
I went to the field on an over cast day 2 weeks ago with a light wind and the weather a cool 50 degrees. The FW-190 was the ONLY warbird on the field (a few of our members fly warbirds but not many)and due to it being the first decent day on a weekend for months a lot of other folks were there (fortunately). Needless to say, the FW got lots of attention and I even got an offer to buy it!! It does look good sitting on the ground! Anyway, I got the thing put together and engine started (it has an os .46 in it) and began my taxi. I went, oh.....2 feet and it nosed over. Okay....not a great start....pulled it back, started it up....began taxiing again....2 feet...nosed over. Funny, it didn't do that for Mike.... I DID notice that since I fly off of a grass field that as soon as the bird rolls forward the tail starts to lift.....and at that point one of the old timers at the field walks over and says "you know, a little bit of elevator will keep that tail down while taxiing"....AH HA! So, I drag the plane back, start it, taxi, add elevator and WALLA! No nose over! This isn't so bad! It's a little odd though with the left hand using the rudder and the right holding the elevator.....but okay....so I get to the end of the field. I start to give it throttle and the plane starts rolling down the runway.....umm...it is going left....a lot....dangerously ......so I abort the take off....and go back to the end of the runway. The old timer walks up to me and says "Ya know....full right rudder on take off would probably correct that problem"....and I KNOW I heard him as he walked away saying "rookie".
Okay....so...full elevator while taxiing, full right rudder on take off AND elevator....the Alpha was WAY easier....so....before I begin my take-off I've got full elevator, and full right rudder.....and away I go....plane is moving STRAIGHT down the runway...ease off the elevator the tail comes up immediately, pull back on the elevator and let go the rudder and it takes off...and goes left....left....adjust the trim, and it straightens out, of course the plane is now behind the safety line and flying over the parked cars in our parking lot, not good, got it back over the field where it belongs....and I DEFINITELY heard the old timers laughing and the word "real rookie" flying around in the pits....also I noticed that as soon as the plane went left everyone went into the covered pits.....just in case. I made a few passes along the runway and the plane looked great! However, it was EXTREMELY sensitive to the controls, I'm almost shaking to do any kind of maneuver.....the radio that came with the plane didn't have adjustments for the throws, so I am adding it to my computerized radio to adjust things a bit. As soon as everyone felt safe to come out from under cover everyone complimented me about getting the plane up and flying in one piece, and getting it under control so quickly. The plane was a rocket even at 1/4 throttle, and was a blast to fly, but I felt it was time to try a landing, so I put the gear down and let the field know I was bringing it in...and no one ran into the pit! Came in low and slow, and touched down on the runway.....the plane nosed over...hard. The hobbico mechanical landing gear snapped at the wing......but thankfully it didn't hurt anything else.....cracked the cowl a little bit, but an easy fix.
So I now have robart mechanicals in my hands, and i"m waiting for a set of robart struts, if things go well I'll be flying this weekend weather permitting. And with the new radio the throws will be toned down a bit.
When I was done I was thrilled....even with the nose over.....and shaking...what a rush! Do I recommend anyone doing this? Only if you have a good strong heart and a few old timers to make "suggestions"....and perhaps a place for everyone else to run for cover
.
Sorry this is so long.....but I just couldn't resist!
Cheers!
Mazer
) you CAN go from a trainer to a warbird.....but......it isn't for the feint of heart!!! I also did not maiden it, and I had lots of experienced pilots standing over my shoulder giving me "suggestions".First off, this is NOT recommended, and by no means am I saying you should do this, but I thought it might give you all a little insight and perhaps a chuckle at what to expect....and YES I learned a lot....and YES it isn't easy.....but YES it was a rush!!!!
A little background since I know all of you would be warbird pilots are chomping at the bit to get started....for me, if it isn't a warbird or a 30's racer it isn't worth spending the money on! Now...with that said I DID listen to the folks here and didn't START with a low wing taildragger....I got started in May of last year and the H9 PTS was not available[:@], and of course I couldn't wait, so I got the Alpha since you can do a search on these forums and read about just about all the trainers and at the time there was nothing but praise for the Alpha and me not knowing any better I decided to go with it. I soloed in 3 flights, and spent the summer every weekend flying until the weather turned in November. In February I went on RC universe and bought a GP Fw-190A and a Ben Howard "Ike" '30's racer. I couldn't resist the deals (came with everything(including TX) and the planes built). I was going to buy a "trainer" low wing but I just couldnt' bring myself to do it since I could get that FW-190 for less!
Now to the flying.
I brought the planes to our flying field, and the wind was blowing pretty stiffly (gusting over 20mph and a xwind to boot!) but one of our experienced pilots decided that we should put these planes in the air (I did spend a few days on each plane getting them ready by the way), first the Fw-190, maidened excellently, a little trim needed and flew like it was on rails. Then the "ike", flew like a brick and deadsticked.....and that was that...I am currently stripping off all the old covering and working on lightening the plane up a bit. I'm also going to strip the engine down and soak it in kero(the engine is a ST .90 when it was sold to me as a .60)to try to make it run a little better....and it doesn't hurt.
Now MY flying experience. And NO i didn't even THINK about trying to fly the Ike!
I went to the field on an over cast day 2 weeks ago with a light wind and the weather a cool 50 degrees. The FW-190 was the ONLY warbird on the field (a few of our members fly warbirds but not many)and due to it being the first decent day on a weekend for months a lot of other folks were there (fortunately). Needless to say, the FW got lots of attention and I even got an offer to buy it!! It does look good sitting on the ground! Anyway, I got the thing put together and engine started (it has an os .46 in it) and began my taxi. I went, oh.....2 feet and it nosed over. Okay....not a great start....pulled it back, started it up....began taxiing again....2 feet...nosed over. Funny, it didn't do that for Mike.... I DID notice that since I fly off of a grass field that as soon as the bird rolls forward the tail starts to lift.....and at that point one of the old timers at the field walks over and says "you know, a little bit of elevator will keep that tail down while taxiing"....AH HA! So, I drag the plane back, start it, taxi, add elevator and WALLA! No nose over! This isn't so bad! It's a little odd though with the left hand using the rudder and the right holding the elevator.....but okay....so I get to the end of the field. I start to give it throttle and the plane starts rolling down the runway.....umm...it is going left....a lot....dangerously ......so I abort the take off....and go back to the end of the runway. The old timer walks up to me and says "Ya know....full right rudder on take off would probably correct that problem"....and I KNOW I heard him as he walked away saying "rookie".
Okay....so...full elevator while taxiing, full right rudder on take off AND elevator....the Alpha was WAY easier....so....before I begin my take-off I've got full elevator, and full right rudder.....and away I go....plane is moving STRAIGHT down the runway...ease off the elevator the tail comes up immediately, pull back on the elevator and let go the rudder and it takes off...and goes left....left....adjust the trim, and it straightens out, of course the plane is now behind the safety line and flying over the parked cars in our parking lot, not good, got it back over the field where it belongs....and I DEFINITELY heard the old timers laughing and the word "real rookie" flying around in the pits....also I noticed that as soon as the plane went left everyone went into the covered pits.....just in case. I made a few passes along the runway and the plane looked great! However, it was EXTREMELY sensitive to the controls, I'm almost shaking to do any kind of maneuver.....the radio that came with the plane didn't have adjustments for the throws, so I am adding it to my computerized radio to adjust things a bit. As soon as everyone felt safe to come out from under cover everyone complimented me about getting the plane up and flying in one piece, and getting it under control so quickly. The plane was a rocket even at 1/4 throttle, and was a blast to fly, but I felt it was time to try a landing, so I put the gear down and let the field know I was bringing it in...and no one ran into the pit! Came in low and slow, and touched down on the runway.....the plane nosed over...hard. The hobbico mechanical landing gear snapped at the wing......but thankfully it didn't hurt anything else.....cracked the cowl a little bit, but an easy fix.
So I now have robart mechanicals in my hands, and i"m waiting for a set of robart struts, if things go well I'll be flying this weekend weather permitting. And with the new radio the throws will be toned down a bit.
When I was done I was thrilled....even with the nose over.....and shaking...what a rush! Do I recommend anyone doing this? Only if you have a good strong heart and a few old timers to make "suggestions"....and perhaps a place for everyone else to run for cover
.Sorry this is so long.....but I just couldn't resist!
Cheers!
Mazer
03-22-2006 | 11:50 AM
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From: Chesapeake,
VA
RE: Trainer to Warbird: IT CAN BE DONE!
Thats good man...
You know the risk of crashing, you were open to instruction from the club members, and you recognized your errors and are fixing them...so i would say you did ok...
You know the risk of crashing, you were open to instruction from the club members, and you recognized your errors and are fixing them...so i would say you did ok...
03-22-2006 | 12:28 PM
#5
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RE: Trainer to Warbird: IT CAN BE DONE!
You're lucky, very lucky. The following extracts sum up the reason why people should not attempt to fly a plane that's beyond their experience level.
This would have been a good point to stop, admit that the plane was beyond you, and ask for help.
Another lost opportunity, the guy obviously was trying to help. Asking him to stay with you, and perhaps talk you through the takeoff a few times before you tried again, would have been a good idea.
The preceding mostly speaks for itself. You're damn lucky it didn't snap roll (a very common thing in this kind of situation) into one of the parked cars or the pits.
So, let's sum up your first warbird flight. You nosed it over several times before you even got it to the runway, lost control during the takeoff and flew over the pits/parking lot, and broke the landing gear and cowl on landing. I think your experience goes a long way toward justifying why those of us who have "been around for a while" recommend more experience before flying a warbird, and seeking help when transitioning from a trike to a taildragger. Thanks!
ORIGINAL: mazer
Anyway, I got the thing put together and engine started (it has an os .46 in it) and began my taxi. I went, oh.....2 feet and it nosed over. Okay....not a great start....pulled it back, started it up....began taxiing again....2 feet...nosed over.
Anyway, I got the thing put together and engine started (it has an os .46 in it) and began my taxi. I went, oh.....2 feet and it nosed over. Okay....not a great start....pulled it back, started it up....began taxiing again....2 feet...nosed over.
Funny, it didn't do that for Mike.... I DID notice that since I fly off of a grass field that as soon as the bird rolls forward the tail starts to lift.....and at that point one of the old timers at the field walks over and says "you know, a little bit of elevator will keep that tail down while taxiing"....AH HA! So, I drag the plane back, start it, taxi, add elevator and WALLA! No nose over! This isn't so bad! It's a little odd though with the left hand using the rudder and the right holding the elevator.....but okay....so I get to the end of the field. I start to give it throttle and the plane starts rolling down the runway.....umm...it is going left....a lot....dangerously ......so I abort the take off....and go back to the end of the runway. The old timer walks up to me and says "Ya know....full right rudder on take off would probably correct that problem"....and I KNOW I heard him as he walked away saying "rookie".
Okay....so...full elevator while taxiing, full right rudder on take off AND elevator....the Alpha was WAY easier....so....before I begin my take-off I've got full elevator, and full right rudder.....and away I go....plane is moving STRAIGHT down the runway...ease off the elevator the tail comes up immediately, pull back on the elevator and let go the rudder and it takes off...and goes left....left....adjust the trim, and it straightens out, of course the plane is now behind the safety line and flying over the parked cars in our parking lot, not good, got it back over the field where it belongs....and I DEFINITELY heard the old timers laughing and the word "real rookie" flying around in the pits....also I noticed that as soon as the plane went left everyone went into the covered pits.....just in case.
The plane was a rocket even at 1/4 throttle, and was a blast to fly, but I felt it was time to try a landing, so I put the gear down and let the field know I was bringing it in...and no one ran into the pit! Came in low and slow, and touched down on the runway.....the plane nosed over...hard. The hobbico mechanical landing gear snapped at the wing......but thankfully it didn't hurt anything else.....cracked the cowl a little bit, but an easy fix.
03-22-2006 | 12:56 PM
#6
RE: Trainer to Warbird: IT CAN BE DONE!
ORIGINAL: rjm1982
Im in the camp of "try it if you want" but "be educated" about your choice first.
You know the risk of crashing, you were open to instruction from the club members, and you recognized your errors and are fixing them...so i would say you did ok...
Like you said, most begginers shouldn do it..but if you want to try...as long as your safe about it...go for it, just know the possible consequenses...
Im in the camp of "try it if you want" but "be educated" about your choice first.
You know the risk of crashing, you were open to instruction from the club members, and you recognized your errors and are fixing them...so i would say you did ok...
Like you said, most begginers shouldn do it..but if you want to try...as long as your safe about it...go for it, just know the possible consequenses...
The other pilots should have insisted on taking a larger part in this flight as well.
"you did ok" BUNK!! He was just very lucky. This type of out-of-control flying should not be encouraged in any manner and if he tried this at my club field he would be grounded.
And since when is flying out of control behind the safety line "being safe".
03-22-2006 | 01:20 PM
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From: Chesapeake,
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RE: Trainer to Warbird: IT CAN BE DONE!
So you're telling me that an experienced pilot has never had control issues with a plane on its maiden? He took a plane that caught him by suprise and got it under control and not only flew it in control after that, but landed it...minor damage, yeah, but nothing serious.
Ive seen multiple times that a plane has gotten away from the pilot on a maiden, especially immediatly after takeoff. Its not that uncommon, thats why its a maiden and not a normal flight, your not entirely sure what it is going to do. We had a guy do that this weekend, a brand new Sukoi(sp?) from CMP...with the cg EXACTLY where the manufacturer recommends, it needed almost 1/2 stick of down elevator to keep it from climbing...and all that tail heavyness made is snap roll on pretty much every turn...he was wild..we were all ready to get out of the way and keeping our eye on the plane...but he got it back down on the ground...cracked the fuse but good for what he was dealing with..
And about your "doom on us"-"we're going to crash into the neighbors house!!!!" stuff...did he crash? no. Was he completly out of control? No. Did he get control of the bird? Yes.
I went to another feild that i dont normally fly at and got a chance on the sticks of a warbird, a corsair to be exact, and a pretty scale one at that. The owner was right next to me as I flew it. I took of (a little sloppy, but not too bad) flew it, did some gentle aerobatics with it, and landed it without incident...i nosed over taxing back in, but no big deal
You guys seem content to assume that everyone is a bad pilot and treat them as such. To me, thats disrespectful. Informing someone that they might be making a mistake in their choice of plane is ok...but to critisize and border on insulting people...its just childish. If it had been a veteran pilot that took off and the plane caught him by suprise, and he ended up over the pits but got control back, would he be treated like this guy? No, he would get a "nice save" from everyone around him...
This forum has a problem with that. I will stand up for this point every time its brought up. Just because someone is new, doesnt mean they are a bad pilot...it doesnt mean that you know their skill level. Hell, we had a jet guy almost tank a new jet a couple of weekends ago and he had been flying for 20+ years...does that means he should be treated like you're treating this guy...
I hate that so many people think that I have to take baby steps for everything. Luckily, the people at my feild, the people that actually matter, do not. They will make sure im safe in whatever i do, and provide help, but they arent going to tell me i need to buy 6 planes to throw away before i get into the bird i want...
Ive seen multiple times that a plane has gotten away from the pilot on a maiden, especially immediatly after takeoff. Its not that uncommon, thats why its a maiden and not a normal flight, your not entirely sure what it is going to do. We had a guy do that this weekend, a brand new Sukoi(sp?) from CMP...with the cg EXACTLY where the manufacturer recommends, it needed almost 1/2 stick of down elevator to keep it from climbing...and all that tail heavyness made is snap roll on pretty much every turn...he was wild..we were all ready to get out of the way and keeping our eye on the plane...but he got it back down on the ground...cracked the fuse but good for what he was dealing with..
And about your "doom on us"-"we're going to crash into the neighbors house!!!!" stuff...did he crash? no. Was he completly out of control? No. Did he get control of the bird? Yes.
I went to another feild that i dont normally fly at and got a chance on the sticks of a warbird, a corsair to be exact, and a pretty scale one at that. The owner was right next to me as I flew it. I took of (a little sloppy, but not too bad) flew it, did some gentle aerobatics with it, and landed it without incident...i nosed over taxing back in, but no big deal
You guys seem content to assume that everyone is a bad pilot and treat them as such. To me, thats disrespectful. Informing someone that they might be making a mistake in their choice of plane is ok...but to critisize and border on insulting people...its just childish. If it had been a veteran pilot that took off and the plane caught him by suprise, and he ended up over the pits but got control back, would he be treated like this guy? No, he would get a "nice save" from everyone around him...
This forum has a problem with that. I will stand up for this point every time its brought up. Just because someone is new, doesnt mean they are a bad pilot...it doesnt mean that you know their skill level. Hell, we had a jet guy almost tank a new jet a couple of weekends ago and he had been flying for 20+ years...does that means he should be treated like you're treating this guy...
I hate that so many people think that I have to take baby steps for everything. Luckily, the people at my feild, the people that actually matter, do not. They will make sure im safe in whatever i do, and provide help, but they arent going to tell me i need to buy 6 planes to throw away before i get into the bird i want...
03-22-2006 | 01:38 PM
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RE: Trainer to Warbird: IT CAN BE DONE!
This forum has gotten out of control in a hurry. Apparently there are some personalities that just don't get it, so I'm going to close down this thread. If someone doesn't know why I am closing this I encourage them to read below:
This thread has been closed because the ideas that are being expressed have gone way over the line of being safe. The Beginner's forum is here to help people that are getting started out in this hobby. To recommend that a beginner try to fly a warbird is just reckless advice and has no business in the beginner's forum. This is why this thread is being locked down. The individual that started the thread stated that he was able to do it with no problems, BUT he did say that it's not something that everybody should try. I'm going to leave the thread up for others to read because it's pretty obvious that the thread starter is very proud of what he did, and since he did qualify his statement about not trying this without help I'm inclined to leave the thread up. Otherwise I would have deleted it completely. If there are individuals out there that disagree with my action I encourage them to contact me by PM and I will gladly discuss my reasoning for my actions with them in PM's.
Ken
This thread has been closed because the ideas that are being expressed have gone way over the line of being safe. The Beginner's forum is here to help people that are getting started out in this hobby. To recommend that a beginner try to fly a warbird is just reckless advice and has no business in the beginner's forum. This is why this thread is being locked down. The individual that started the thread stated that he was able to do it with no problems, BUT he did say that it's not something that everybody should try. I'm going to leave the thread up for others to read because it's pretty obvious that the thread starter is very proud of what he did, and since he did qualify his statement about not trying this without help I'm inclined to leave the thread up. Otherwise I would have deleted it completely. If there are individuals out there that disagree with my action I encourage them to contact me by PM and I will gladly discuss my reasoning for my actions with them in PM's.
Ken
