how do they do it
05-10-2006, 01:49 AM
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how do they do it
how in the world do they do it? ive read post after post where a new guy "solos in one day" //// " first day landed great" //// "solod on sixth flight" how do they do it?
i try to teach my students so they go home with an intact plane after a day of flying. this includes level turns, dead stick landings, stall recovery, take off etc etcx etc never had a new guy come close to solo in even a month
have fun
i try to teach my students so they go home with an intact plane after a day of flying. this includes level turns, dead stick landings, stall recovery, take off etc etcx etc never had a new guy come close to solo in even a month
have fun
05-10-2006, 02:29 AM
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RE: how do they do it
fall out from the Nintendo generation
seriously people 8-18 with any decent hand eye coordination will look like a seasoned pro in no time. I did 13+ yrs ago. I'm not going to get into a philological discussion but basically as we age the harder it become to learn something, especially physical skills. no offense to anyone. so the older crowd. 30+ is going to take a little longer to master flying these things. It also depends on the instructor. Some instructor by their nature just look down on a students even if not meaning to, I've caught myself more than once. Just gotta let go and let em make a few mistake, not at the cost of the model of course. Some kids just have it. I find keeping the instruction kinda loose easer the tension and help the student concentrate on the model critique the flight when your back att he pits. When I see instructor just barking order like a drill Sargent I think to myself, I would have never succeed in this hobby trying to learn like that. But that how some guys train.
seriously people 8-18 with any decent hand eye coordination will look like a seasoned pro in no time. I did 13+ yrs ago. I'm not going to get into a philological discussion but basically as we age the harder it become to learn something, especially physical skills. no offense to anyone. so the older crowd. 30+ is going to take a little longer to master flying these things. It also depends on the instructor. Some instructor by their nature just look down on a students even if not meaning to, I've caught myself more than once. Just gotta let go and let em make a few mistake, not at the cost of the model of course. Some kids just have it. I find keeping the instruction kinda loose easer the tension and help the student concentrate on the model critique the flight when your back att he pits. When I see instructor just barking order like a drill Sargent I think to myself, I would have never succeed in this hobby trying to learn like that. But that how some guys train.
05-10-2006, 05:07 AM
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RE: how do they do it
I solo'ed on my sixth flight. This was after a simulated dead stick landing, a number of touch and gos, loops, immelmans, split s', taxiing, and take-offs. I'm a high altitude circle flyer though. From the reference of the 6th flight, I'm assuming you saw my "gaining nerve" post...
Anyway, I can't say I'm a 100% comfortable flyer. I certainly have a LONG way to go before I'll be a competent flyer. I can take-off and land properly though from both directions of our field in varying wind conditions. I've not had a close call yet, but then again I'm sure I will in time.
I started on RealFlight G3. I flew it for who knows how many hours before my first flight on the buddy box. My first flight on G3 was a successful take-off of the PT-40 and successful landing. I had a hard time landing on the runway on the sim at first. Actually, I didn't know how to do an approach until after my first day at the flying field. After seeing approaches by my instructor, I landed on the runway all the time on the sim.
I'm 28 (well 29 in 3 weeks), and am a product of the Nintendo generation. I don't know if it's video games which helped me though. It's probably partially the hand-eye coordination from games and partially due to my basic understanding of flight and basic understanding of R/C concepts prior to starting flying. I'd also seen a lot of R/C flying. For me, watching helps me learn almost as much as actually flying the plane. When I watch someone fly, I go through the stick movements which the flyer must be inputting while he's manuvering. I can't really do that with the really good flyers at the club, but the majority of the flyers up there I can follow in my head with no problem.
Anyway, I can't say I'm a 100% comfortable flyer. I certainly have a LONG way to go before I'll be a competent flyer. I can take-off and land properly though from both directions of our field in varying wind conditions. I've not had a close call yet, but then again I'm sure I will in time.
I started on RealFlight G3. I flew it for who knows how many hours before my first flight on the buddy box. My first flight on G3 was a successful take-off of the PT-40 and successful landing. I had a hard time landing on the runway on the sim at first. Actually, I didn't know how to do an approach until after my first day at the flying field. After seeing approaches by my instructor, I landed on the runway all the time on the sim.
I'm 28 (well 29 in 3 weeks), and am a product of the Nintendo generation. I don't know if it's video games which helped me though. It's probably partially the hand-eye coordination from games and partially due to my basic understanding of flight and basic understanding of R/C concepts prior to starting flying. I'd also seen a lot of R/C flying. For me, watching helps me learn almost as much as actually flying the plane. When I watch someone fly, I go through the stick movements which the flyer must be inputting while he's manuvering. I can't really do that with the really good flyers at the club, but the majority of the flyers up there I can follow in my head with no problem.
05-10-2006, 05:33 AM
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RE: how do they do it
This is an example of the incredible gains and the actual benifit of SIM time. 2 hours on the SIM could be like 20 flights at the field. That could take weeks or even months. Not every person that starts with a SIM can expect to solo in one day or even a week. But they can expect to solo much earlier than if they didn't use a sim. And even after solo, SIMS can be used for homework. The newbie can still be coached after solo. A veteran pilot can still give advice and make pointers. The newbie pilot can then spend hours of SIM time practicing what they have learned. One season flying and using the SIM can give the newbie pilot the understanding and experience that once took years to obtain. Like NASA, the Air Force, the airlines and the training centers around the USA, this hobby has realized the remarkable teaching aid called the simulator.
05-10-2006, 07:10 AM
#5
RE: how do they do it
jetmech05,
Well, I'm probably going to throw some fuel on the fire here with my comments. What everybody above has said it partially true. Sims and the "Nintendo generation" to have some role in helping students solo faster, and there are natural talents out there that just pick it up quickly. But the reason some of these people solo faster is that they aren't being completely trained. They are shown how to get up, circle the field, and then land. As an instructor you know there is a lot more that should be taught to the student before they are allowed to solo, and in some of these cases the students just aren't being taught. Ask one of those people that soloed in quickly how to use the rudder in a cross wing landing and see what they say/do.
Some of the things that should be taught, but I see students lacking knowledge of, are proper use of the rudder, inverted flight, basic aerobatics, dead stick procedures, being comfortable in trimming out a plane, safety procedures, flying and landing when the pattern is reversed because the wind is blowing from the other direction, properly setting up an airplane, etc.....
I imagine that if you could be a fly on the wall watching some of those "naturals" that solo quickly you will find that they actually have to spend a lot of time learning all of these things AFTER they have soloed. This is doing it totally backwards. The solo flight should be like your final exams, once you do that you are done with your training. I have a guideline that I put out for my students so that they know when they are ready to solo. They need to be able to take off, perform a loop, a roll, a split-s, an immelman, do a landing approach from both direction, and finally they need to be able to take off and fly three circuits of the field inverted and do it comfortably. If they are comfortable doing all of that then they are ready to solo, and after a solo they don't need me to buddy them anymore. Don't get me wrong because I don't just cut them loose, I still help them as they move up to other planes. A lot of times I will help them check over, trim out, and even buddy box them as they get their second and third planes in the air. With all of this training in mind some may think that it takes forever for me to teach somebody, this isn't the case. I've had one "natural" that was able to accomplish all of this in just 6 flying sessions. The average time for most of my students is usually 4-6 weeks (flying on Saturday and Sunday) before they solo.
I think that the "hurry up and solo" mentality is just a sign of the times. Everybody wants to do things quickly. They want to get into the air as quick as possible. That is one reason why ARF's/RTF's are so popular these days. Because a lot of people want instant gratification.
That's my 2¢ worth.
Ken
Well, I'm probably going to throw some fuel on the fire here with my comments. What everybody above has said it partially true. Sims and the "Nintendo generation" to have some role in helping students solo faster, and there are natural talents out there that just pick it up quickly. But the reason some of these people solo faster is that they aren't being completely trained. They are shown how to get up, circle the field, and then land. As an instructor you know there is a lot more that should be taught to the student before they are allowed to solo, and in some of these cases the students just aren't being taught. Ask one of those people that soloed in quickly how to use the rudder in a cross wing landing and see what they say/do.
Some of the things that should be taught, but I see students lacking knowledge of, are proper use of the rudder, inverted flight, basic aerobatics, dead stick procedures, being comfortable in trimming out a plane, safety procedures, flying and landing when the pattern is reversed because the wind is blowing from the other direction, properly setting up an airplane, etc.....
I imagine that if you could be a fly on the wall watching some of those "naturals" that solo quickly you will find that they actually have to spend a lot of time learning all of these things AFTER they have soloed. This is doing it totally backwards. The solo flight should be like your final exams, once you do that you are done with your training. I have a guideline that I put out for my students so that they know when they are ready to solo. They need to be able to take off, perform a loop, a roll, a split-s, an immelman, do a landing approach from both direction, and finally they need to be able to take off and fly three circuits of the field inverted and do it comfortably. If they are comfortable doing all of that then they are ready to solo, and after a solo they don't need me to buddy them anymore. Don't get me wrong because I don't just cut them loose, I still help them as they move up to other planes. A lot of times I will help them check over, trim out, and even buddy box them as they get their second and third planes in the air. With all of this training in mind some may think that it takes forever for me to teach somebody, this isn't the case. I've had one "natural" that was able to accomplish all of this in just 6 flying sessions. The average time for most of my students is usually 4-6 weeks (flying on Saturday and Sunday) before they solo.
I think that the "hurry up and solo" mentality is just a sign of the times. Everybody wants to do things quickly. They want to get into the air as quick as possible. That is one reason why ARF's/RTF's are so popular these days. Because a lot of people want instant gratification.
That's my 2¢ worth.
Ken
05-10-2006, 07:13 AM
#6
RE: how do they do it
ORIGINAL: RCKen
jetmech05,
Well, I'm probably going to throw some fuel on the fire here with my comments. What everybody above has said it partially true. Sims and the "Nintendo generation" to have some role in helping students solo faster, and there are natural talents out there that just pick it up quickly. But the reason some of these people solo faster is that they aren't being completely trained. They are shown how to get up, circle the field, and then land. As an instructor you know there is a lot more that should be taught to the student before they are allowed to solo, and in some of these cases the students just aren't being taught. Ask one of those people that soloed in quickly how to use the rudder in a cross wing landing and see what they say/do.
Some of the things that should be taught, but I see students lacking knowledge of, are proper use of the rudder, inverted flight, basic aerobatics, dead stick procedures, being comfortable in trimming out a plane, safety procedures, flying and landing when the pattern is reversed because the wind is blowing from the other direction, properly setting up an airplane, etc.....
I imagine that if you could be a fly on the wall watching some of those "naturals" that solo quickly you will find that they actually have to spend a lot of time learning all of these things AFTER they have soloed. This is doing it totally backwards. The solo flight should be like your final exams, once you do that you are done with your training. I have a guideline that I put out for my students so that they know when they are ready to solo. They need to be able to take off, perform a loop, a roll, a split-s, an immelman, do a landing approach from both direction, and finally they need to be able to take off and fly three circuits of the field inverted and do it comfortably. If they are comfortable doing all of that then they are ready to solo, and after a solo they don't need me to buddy them anymore. Don't get me wrong because I don't just cut them loose, I still help them as they move up to other planes. A lot of times I will help them check over, trim out, and even buddy box them as they get their second and third planes in the air. With all of this training in mind some may think that it takes forever for me to teach somebody, this isn't the case. I've had one "natural" that was able to accomplish all of this in just 6 flying sessions. The average time for most of my students is usually 4-6 weeks (flying on Saturday and Sunday) before they solo.
I think that the "hurry up and solo" mentality is just a sign of the times. Everybody wants to do things quickly. They want to get into the air as quick as possible. That is one reason why ARF's/RTF's are so popular these days. Because a lot of people want instant gratification.
That's my 2¢ worth.
Ken
jetmech05,
Well, I'm probably going to throw some fuel on the fire here with my comments. What everybody above has said it partially true. Sims and the "Nintendo generation" to have some role in helping students solo faster, and there are natural talents out there that just pick it up quickly. But the reason some of these people solo faster is that they aren't being completely trained. They are shown how to get up, circle the field, and then land. As an instructor you know there is a lot more that should be taught to the student before they are allowed to solo, and in some of these cases the students just aren't being taught. Ask one of those people that soloed in quickly how to use the rudder in a cross wing landing and see what they say/do.
Some of the things that should be taught, but I see students lacking knowledge of, are proper use of the rudder, inverted flight, basic aerobatics, dead stick procedures, being comfortable in trimming out a plane, safety procedures, flying and landing when the pattern is reversed because the wind is blowing from the other direction, properly setting up an airplane, etc.....
I imagine that if you could be a fly on the wall watching some of those "naturals" that solo quickly you will find that they actually have to spend a lot of time learning all of these things AFTER they have soloed. This is doing it totally backwards. The solo flight should be like your final exams, once you do that you are done with your training. I have a guideline that I put out for my students so that they know when they are ready to solo. They need to be able to take off, perform a loop, a roll, a split-s, an immelman, do a landing approach from both direction, and finally they need to be able to take off and fly three circuits of the field inverted and do it comfortably. If they are comfortable doing all of that then they are ready to solo, and after a solo they don't need me to buddy them anymore. Don't get me wrong because I don't just cut them loose, I still help them as they move up to other planes. A lot of times I will help them check over, trim out, and even buddy box them as they get their second and third planes in the air. With all of this training in mind some may think that it takes forever for me to teach somebody, this isn't the case. I've had one "natural" that was able to accomplish all of this in just 6 flying sessions. The average time for most of my students is usually 4-6 weeks (flying on Saturday and Sunday) before they solo.
I think that the "hurry up and solo" mentality is just a sign of the times. Everybody wants to do things quickly. They want to get into the air as quick as possible. That is one reason why ARF's/RTF's are so popular these days. Because a lot of people want instant gratification.
That's my 2¢ worth.
Ken
05-10-2006, 07:24 AM
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RE: how do they do it
KCKen, just a couple of comments. I don't think that I'm necessarily one of those naturals. Maybe I am, maybe it's the sim, I don't know... I'm certain I could fly three circuits inverted. I've never tried three, but you bet I will the next time I'm at the field. 
I can do the basic aerobatics you mentioned. Half of my landings so far have required rudder input due to cross-wind. I am equally comfortable taking off and landing from either side of the field.
But, per the thread I started yesterday, I'm going back on the buddy box for at least a couple of flights.
Even though I'm going back on the buddy box, I am certainly glad that the buddy box was removed when it was. The excitement experienced took my interest in this hobby to a whole new level. It was an awesome sense of accomplishment that REALLY made me more and more excited about R/C planes. I don't fear take offs or landings. I don't fear flying a pattern. I fly well within my comfort zone. That, right now, means I fly at a high altitude. I want to go back on the box to gain confidence flying lower, slower, and closer in.
One problem that I have experienced thus far in my persuit for knowledge and skills is conflicting advice and techniques. Honestly, it's the most frustrating part of my learning experience so far. The most significant example of this is rudder usage. Literally everyone whom I've asked about the use of rudder has given me a different answer. We're talking basic questions here!
I know how to use the rudder to compensate for cross-wind. I understand how the rudder works and what it does. But, heck, I'll throw my questions out here and get others' answers...
1. When performing basic turns to fly a pattern, I can turn with no rudder at all, rolling with ailerons and using the elevator to control my turn rate. I can also turn with only rudder (and opposite aileron as much as needed if flying my trainer). If this were R/C flying 101, by the book, which is "correct"?
Actually, rather than hijack this thread, I think I'll leave it at only 1 question for now.
I can do the basic aerobatics you mentioned. Half of my landings so far have required rudder input due to cross-wind. I am equally comfortable taking off and landing from either side of the field.But, per the thread I started yesterday, I'm going back on the buddy box for at least a couple of flights.
Even though I'm going back on the buddy box, I am certainly glad that the buddy box was removed when it was. The excitement experienced took my interest in this hobby to a whole new level. It was an awesome sense of accomplishment that REALLY made me more and more excited about R/C planes. I don't fear take offs or landings. I don't fear flying a pattern. I fly well within my comfort zone. That, right now, means I fly at a high altitude. I want to go back on the box to gain confidence flying lower, slower, and closer in.
One problem that I have experienced thus far in my persuit for knowledge and skills is conflicting advice and techniques. Honestly, it's the most frustrating part of my learning experience so far. The most significant example of this is rudder usage. Literally everyone whom I've asked about the use of rudder has given me a different answer. We're talking basic questions here!
I know how to use the rudder to compensate for cross-wind. I understand how the rudder works and what it does. But, heck, I'll throw my questions out here and get others' answers...
1. When performing basic turns to fly a pattern, I can turn with no rudder at all, rolling with ailerons and using the elevator to control my turn rate. I can also turn with only rudder (and opposite aileron as much as needed if flying my trainer). If this were R/C flying 101, by the book, which is "correct"?
Actually, rather than hijack this thread, I think I'll leave it at only 1 question for now.
05-10-2006, 09:15 AM
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RE: how do they do it
ACtually, a turn using rudder, aileron, and elevator would be referred to as a coordinated turn, and is necessary in some aircraft (full scale and RC) due to the adverse yaw induced by aileron deflection. However, with your trainer (high wing, lots of dihedral), using either the rudder or aileron should give you about the same response--roll in the direction of input. RUdder will yield some yaw as well, but it not necessary to change course in a plane like yours. HOwever, learning coordinated turns is a good skill to acquire, so work on it some! Either way would be acceptable. Using opposite aileron to rudder coupling as you are talking about--in an attempt to make a wings level turn, would not be used much in full scale, as the angle of bank is what helps keep you (and passengers) in their seats. A flat, wings level, hard turn with the rudder would throw everyone in the cabin toward the outside of the plane--not good. Hope this helps....
05-10-2006, 09:20 AM
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RE: how do they do it
ORIGINAL: stevnmd
1. When performing basic turns to fly a pattern, I can turn with no rudder at all, rolling with ailerons and using the elevator to control my turn rate. I can also turn with only rudder (and opposite aileron as much as needed if flying my trainer). If this were R/C flying 101, by the book, which is "correct"?
1. When performing basic turns to fly a pattern, I can turn with no rudder at all, rolling with ailerons and using the elevator to control my turn rate. I can also turn with only rudder (and opposite aileron as much as needed if flying my trainer). If this were R/C flying 101, by the book, which is "correct"?
05-10-2006, 09:31 AM
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RE: how do they do it
I guess it's just how you want to look at it. I don't expect a new solo to able to advanced maneuvers and or control the model with real precision. that come with time and experience. Come to think of it I've been flying for over a decade and I still can't fly a trainer with real precision because of their floating tendency. I mean I'll grease a landing in a 15 knot cross wind with out flinching and what not but it's still like flying a bus. Personally I make the student use the rudder from the get go and many struggle with it, most kids don't. Having a student solo quickly. I don't see the relevance of instant gratification in this case. I don't find it true. IMO. To me if an instructor expects that; i think he's asking too much from them. Let'em solo. Basically when I train a guy I make sure he can operate the model safely from the pits to the runway up and around the pattern and back again and do it safely. They soloed. Some takes a couple days, some takes a few months. After they've soloed, I wait a few week then throw them back on the cord whether they like it or not and then start teaching advanced flying. inverted for 2 full laps. imallmans, stall turns, stall recovery. how to always make it back to the field from a dead stick no matter were your at kinda stuff. to each his own I guess
05-10-2006, 12:30 PM
#11
RE: how do they do it
ORIGINAL: RCKen
I have a guideline that I put out for my students so that they know when they are ready to solo. They need to be able to take off, perform a loop, a roll, a split-s, an immelman, do a landing approach from both direction, and finally they need to be able to take off and fly three circuits of the field inverted and do it comfortably. If they are comfortable doing all of that then they are ready to solo, and after a solo they don't need me to buddy them anymore.
Ken
I have a guideline that I put out for my students so that they know when they are ready to solo. They need to be able to take off, perform a loop, a roll, a split-s, an immelman, do a landing approach from both direction, and finally they need to be able to take off and fly three circuits of the field inverted and do it comfortably. If they are comfortable doing all of that then they are ready to solo, and after a solo they don't need me to buddy them anymore.
Ken
05-10-2006, 01:01 PM
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RE: how do they do it
I don't don't know what kind of trainers you guys are using, but mine (pt-40, 3ch, os-40 fp) would barely loop, could not roll (and therefore no split-s), and could not fly inverted for more than 3 seconds, no matter who is on the sticks.
I do agree that training is very short at some fields. I soloed on the box my 3th flight, 2nd day at the field, off the box on the 4th flight.. But their definition of solo was take off, fly in the left hand circuit, land. For a little defense, we were right off a lake so the wind was ALWAYS from the exact same direction, so landing in another direction or landing in a cross-wind was not a consideration.
I do agree that training is very short at some fields. I soloed on the box my 3th flight, 2nd day at the field, off the box on the 4th flight.. But their definition of solo was take off, fly in the left hand circuit, land. For a little defense, we were right off a lake so the wind was ALWAYS from the exact same direction, so landing in another direction or landing in a cross-wind was not a consideration.
05-10-2006, 01:09 PM
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RE: how do they do it
*sigh* The experience that I can't benefit from.
Its tough trying to get into the hobby without an instructor and local resources. I'm having trouble contacting the club here, I'm resorting to having to phone the person listed on MAAC site at home now, which I didn't want to do, as it seems a little intrusive. Added to that, my partner and daughter live 110 miles from where I work during the week, and weekends are spent with them, in a small town of 400 people with no club and me as the sole RC modeller. Then there is the 1000 mile or so drive to the nearest hobby shop for that forgotten fuel fitting... well I'm sure you understand.
I would love to have an instructor, I am sure there are many things I am doing wrong. I taught myself to fly using a sim, books/magainzes, my training in physics, and general instinct, and successfully solo'd (although Ken didn't give me a certificate :P) even though the day ultimately ended in a crash induced by a couple of huge wind gusts, and one rather tall tree. Before that, I did do 6 take-off and landing circuits, including the very first landing being an actual deadstick in 15mph or so wind. I'm sure that having an instructor to point out things that I am doing wrong, or how to do things a little more smoothly, would be awesome. And coming from someone who doesn't have one, I think also that a lot of people underestimate the "safety-net" factor. I knew every time I put my plane in the air, that the odds were probably against me getting it back on on the ground if something went wrong. I'm not saying I wasn't confident I could fly it, I spent a lot of time on sims and knew I could, its just that the proverbial "stuff" happens. I know there is a lot I don't know, and having an instructor, whether on cord or not, would be a great help.
That being said, sometimes I can't help but feeling like a pariah on here. When you post about learning to fly without an instructor, its almost taken as blasphemy by some. Believe me, I would have an instructor if I could, and I do get tired of every question you ask being answered with a "do it how your instructor says" or "you shouldn't be flying without an instructor" type of answer.
In response to the OP, I don't know how other people do it, but I did it through a lot of patience, and the sheer guts to push $400 worth of equipment into the air with noone there to help.
Its tough trying to get into the hobby without an instructor and local resources. I'm having trouble contacting the club here, I'm resorting to having to phone the person listed on MAAC site at home now, which I didn't want to do, as it seems a little intrusive. Added to that, my partner and daughter live 110 miles from where I work during the week, and weekends are spent with them, in a small town of 400 people with no club and me as the sole RC modeller. Then there is the 1000 mile or so drive to the nearest hobby shop for that forgotten fuel fitting... well I'm sure you understand.
I would love to have an instructor, I am sure there are many things I am doing wrong. I taught myself to fly using a sim, books/magainzes, my training in physics, and general instinct, and successfully solo'd (although Ken didn't give me a certificate :P) even though the day ultimately ended in a crash induced by a couple of huge wind gusts, and one rather tall tree. Before that, I did do 6 take-off and landing circuits, including the very first landing being an actual deadstick in 15mph or so wind. I'm sure that having an instructor to point out things that I am doing wrong, or how to do things a little more smoothly, would be awesome. And coming from someone who doesn't have one, I think also that a lot of people underestimate the "safety-net" factor. I knew every time I put my plane in the air, that the odds were probably against me getting it back on on the ground if something went wrong. I'm not saying I wasn't confident I could fly it, I spent a lot of time on sims and knew I could, its just that the proverbial "stuff" happens. I know there is a lot I don't know, and having an instructor, whether on cord or not, would be a great help.
That being said, sometimes I can't help but feeling like a pariah on here. When you post about learning to fly without an instructor, its almost taken as blasphemy by some. Believe me, I would have an instructor if I could, and I do get tired of every question you ask being answered with a "do it how your instructor says" or "you shouldn't be flying without an instructor" type of answer.
In response to the OP, I don't know how other people do it, but I did it through a lot of patience, and the sheer guts to push $400 worth of equipment into the air with noone there to help.
05-10-2006, 01:30 PM
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Location: Columbia,
SC
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RE: how do they do it
ORIGINAL: ghtracey
*sigh* The experience that I can't benefit from.
Its tough trying to get into the hobby without an instructor and local resources. I'm having trouble contacting the club here, I'm resorting to having to phone the person listed on MAAC site at home now, which I didn't want to do, as it seems a little intrusive.
*sigh* The experience that I can't benefit from.
Its tough trying to get into the hobby without an instructor and local resources. I'm having trouble contacting the club here, I'm resorting to having to phone the person listed on MAAC site at home now, which I didn't want to do, as it seems a little intrusive.
That being said, sometimes I can't help but feeling like a pariah on here. When you post about learning to fly without an instructor, its almost taken as blasphemy by some. Believe me, I would have an instructor if I could, and I do get tired of every question you ask being answered with a "do it how your instructor says" or "you shouldn't be flying without an instructor" type of answer.
05-10-2006, 01:40 PM
#15
My Feedback: (32)
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Marana,
AZ
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RE: how do they do it
I don't don't know what kind of trainers you guys are using, but mine (pt-40, 3ch, os-40 fp) would barely loop, could not roll (and therefore no split-s), and could not fly inverted for more than 3 seconds, no matter who is on the sticks.
The first one didn't survive long enough to try(my second plane - self taught [:@]
)It's a little tougher to do with only rudder/elevator, but it is possible.
I agree with Ken's syllabus(sp?)- I use pretty much the same set of qualifications for my students before I sign off on thier solo. Only part I don't require is the inverted flight. As long as they can recover to in-control, wings-level right side up flight, that's good enough for me.
05-10-2006, 01:49 PM
#16
My Feedback: (32)
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Marana,
AZ
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RE: how do they do it
ORIGINAL: ghtracey
*sigh* The experience that I can't benefit from.
I'm having trouble contacting the club here, I'm resorting to having to phone the person listed on MAAC site at home now, which I didn't want to do, as it seems a little intrusive.
...
That being said, sometimes I can't help but feeling like a pariah on here. When you post about learning to fly without an instructor, its almost taken as blasphemy by some. Believe me, I would have an instructor if I could, and I do get tired of every question you ask being answered with a "do it how your instructor says" or "you shouldn't be flying without an instructor" type of answer.
*sigh* The experience that I can't benefit from.
I'm having trouble contacting the club here, I'm resorting to having to phone the person listed on MAAC site at home now, which I didn't want to do, as it seems a little intrusive.
...
That being said, sometimes I can't help but feeling like a pariah on here. When you post about learning to fly without an instructor, its almost taken as blasphemy by some. Believe me, I would have an instructor if I could, and I do get tired of every question you ask being answered with a "do it how your instructor says" or "you shouldn't be flying without an instructor" type of answer.
Most of the time, when someone says join the club, get an instructor, etc, etc, etc - that advice is from hard earned experience, and is their way of trying to help you, regardless of how it's phrased exactly. Lots of stuff gets "lost in translation" behind the keyboard.
