It's a matter of personal preference. I learned with just my thumbs and after reading about the "precision" of using a thumb and forefinger I tried it and found that I liked it. I also use a tray which makes it a lot more comfortable using that method. If I'm helping a student though I use thumbs, because I generally don't have my tray then.

Wouldn't be the first time. Won't be the last. Corrective action applied.

I've taught both.

IME it's similar to teaching a mode uncommon in country. The majority will just go with the flow, which means dominent mode and ubiquitious thumbs. Wanting to be taught fingers and thumbs or an alternative to predominent mode is invariably only pursuant to a specific request.

I'm not rationalising the superiority of either one way or the other, but I've never had anyone find it more difficult to learn to fly with their thumbs. Of those I've taught who were determined to learn and master the pinch, they succeeded as well although on average it does seem to take a little longer to become accustomed to. ie: ie not as reflex natural, but easily enough learned through repetion and muscle rote.

As for the arguments about superiority, they're academic and rather silly contests of ego rather than related to any pragmatic reality given that 98.n% of R/C flyers are sport flyers, and IMO 80% of those wouldn't have either the skills, inclination or dedication to practise and develop them to a point where the method they used would result in any appreciable difference in visible control or performance. Failing some physical affliction preventing it, 90% of how a flyer flies happens in the head anyway. A pilot is either smooth, ahead of the aeroplane, situationally aware and anticipative or he's not. If he's not, I don't know of any thumbs or fingers & thumbs with magic tray with mandatory neckstrap or other status affording paraphenlia that will improve it in favour of a tutor or mentoring, knowledge, attitude, application and lots of repeticious practice.

Heck, at least 50% of the experienced fliers at my field still have to rediscover what rudder is.

Whilst there probably is something seemingly rational in the argument re the fingers and thumbs thing at Pro or world ranked amateur pattern level, I've neither the inclination or potential at this stage of life to go there even if I wanted to. I am btw, a thumbs only flyer, and whilst advocating neither way, they serve me well above the average in terms of observable performance. I've even managed to work out what rudder is for!

But, if you're more comfortable with fingers and thumbs, go with it and with an instructor who is at leat ambivalent about it is what I say.

FTR, the same silly arguments polarised by ego about "a wrong way and right way" persist as they have for an aeon in C/L about how to hold the handle. It's laughable. I've seen outstanding flyers conventional and southpaw hold it in all different ways with equal measure of sucess and acquitable skill. At any level, arguably including world elite. It's more about mind, application and practice than how one holds the handle or sticks.

PS: I wouldn't be surprised if somewhere in the world, someone with such a disability isn't flying R/C using the digits on their feet, and good on 'em if they can and are. Anyone ever heard of or seen such?

Neither..... It's all mind control[:-]



Seriously, Pinch method works for me

I'm 6'1" and have big hands with long fingers. It was a bit akward holding the radio, but not really that bad.


Ronnie

I'm short and have small hands and fly with index&thumb........... On the right stick.

And sometimes thumb, sometimes index&thumb on the left stick.

I can hold the TX quite securely too. Have used a neck strap back when I flew a lot of slope and thermal. Now that I'm flying glofuel all the time now, I don't use the strap as it requires too much looking out for while starting and is more bother than value to me.

The issue in this thread that bothers me is the idea that the flight instructor is pushing his student to use one method or the other. I really don't believe forcing anyone into what is basically a technique. If I were you and your instructor was adamant about how you hold the TX and went farther on that issue than just making a suggestion and giving his reasons, I'd find another instructor. There's something akilter with that old boy. He may be the best at your field, but I'd bet he's far from it. Most who're that narrowed on an issue are usually prejudiced more than they're knowledgable about most everything. Look around. There are a lot smarter ones around.

Well, I'm 5'11 ,have normal hands and play the banjo and theres no way I could do that for more than a minute without my fingers cramping up, course being a 1/2A'er most of my planes only fly for 3 minutes anyway,,oh,just weighed a couple my 6 ch is 1.75 lbs,,my 4 ch is 1.5 lbs and my 3 ch is 1.1 lbs...Hey get a good thick one (strap) I have a futaba red one that I over paid for like $16 from tower the Hitec? I think is the same thing for half $ that...or it might be a generic one the tiny black one that came with the Tx hurts my neck after just a few minutes...Rog

Hehe, I sold my Morgan Monroe MNB2 BJ and used the money to buy my Hobbistar 60 select.
Really, it's not that bad holding the radio, but I think I'll try the neck starp and see how that is.

Ronnie

I've got normal size hands too and have no problem holding the transmitter while using my thumb and index finger to hold the stick. When I learned, many moons ago, my instructors both suggested that this way provided more control. Since they were both WAY better than me, I listened and did what they suggested.

I think he's figured out I'm gonna do it my way LOL

He's 75 years old and as fit as a 25 year old and has about 100 or so 1st place trophys and such for RC flying, so I'd say he is pretty dang good IMHO
His name is Robert (Bob) Charles

Ronnie

Hey Ronnie..... Just do what feels right for you!!... The instructor may not like it, But
I would think if you are progressing good... I'm sure most will let it be... Have Fun, Be Safe!!

Well, you do what feels comfortable to you.

I fly thumbs and I have tried to fly pinch and its just too uncomfortable.

However, I know for a fact that a large majority of the "pros" as so called above,,, fly with the pinch method or at least wrap their index finger around the stick. It just gives you a better sense of touch if you are comfortable with it.
If you have gotten acclimated to thumbs it is HARD to switch. Its about as hard as learning to write with the opposite hand..... I have tried and I cant get comfortable with it.

I fly helicopters too and I have found that the guys that fly with me that fly pinch tend to have a lot more sensitive setups.. when I try to fly their stuff with thumbs I cant keep the heli in 1 place, they are just too touchy... They get better feel with the pinch than I do with thumbs.

Although we're essentially on the same wavelength here, just a minor but important point of contention important that it be pointed out for the sake of clarity rather than argument.

What you say above is pertinent where there are two techniques both of which work efficiently and there is no valid justification for refusing to allow or accept the use of one or the other. We're agreed that this is the case in the issue under discussion. A similar example I can think of is preferred mode. But,....

I do think that any advantage or disadvantage might be briefly mentioned such as, ie: "experience has shown that it may take slightly longer to get used to method B, but I'm happy for you to learn to fly that way if that's acceptable to you? IME of most students requesting to learn something different from the mainstream, the two most common requests being mode or pinch control, are usually the more truly motivated, pro-active and better self-informed - although you have to watch out for that too as they frequently form a perception they know and understand more than they do precisely because of what they don't know. Or reducing it to cliches, a little knowledge is dangerous. Ignorance is bliss.

On the other hand, if we were speaking of "technique" with regards for instance crosswind landings, whilst there are a two common conventionally accepted but different techniques, in the knowledge that either can be quite difficult for the average student to get a handle on IRL, in the interest of the student's progress AND in the knowledge that one is easier than the other, to avoid confusing the student or risking him unnecessarily plateau or regress, it is normal and best to only brief and teach one - unless the student is sufficiently knowledgable and asks about the other in which case you might explain it to him, and perhaps, if he was having NO difficulty coping might even introduce him to it. But in the interest of facilitating the student's training and available/your time, would insist upon achieving competency of one method leaving the other to be covered at a later stage when the student had achieved a higher level of skill and understanding etc. This is an example of a situation where an instructor would be completely justified in insisting that a certain technique be used without necessity of justifying or rationalising his decision to the student other than by way of short explanation to effect "just trust me on this for now OK?". [sm=spinnyeyes.gif]

Similarly circuits, oval or rectangular? Of course, we all know that either technique works, but for purposes of consistency, standardsiation (at any particular site) ease of assimilation and coping for the average student we use one and insist upon it with valid reason. A short explanaton should suffice to satisfy the question from the interminably inquisitive, but if he were to continue to insist upon doing it his way in such an instance, he'd be finding another instructor's time to waste post-haste. [8D]

Flying "what's comfortable" is obviously a major factor. However, there was an article in one of the major magazines about 25 years ago dealing w/ the ergonomics and biophysical considerations of thumbs vs the pinch method. One of the top pattern pilots of the time (might have been Rhett Miller), along w/ a doctor/biophysics type guy showed that the pinch method actually provided more precise control due to the simple facts of the way our thumbs move. As a result of that article I switched over to the pinch method. Don't know if it helped or not, but that's the way I do it now.

Bottom line is that practice is going to make a lot more difference than how you hold you sticks.

Tim

Thanks guys, I'm 55 and just getting started in this. I was a whiz at control lines back in the late 60's, but thats the last time I had been around nitro powered planes.LOL But I seem to be getting along pretty good IMO.

Ronnie

I use a transmitter tray which takes away most of the pressure you would have on your hands by holding the transmiiter in addition to using the sticks.

Rog,

You don't need a neck strap or a tray to fly pinch.

I fly pinch and threw my neck strap in the trash because I didn't like the restriction on my body english (which as all pilots know helps you fly when things get rough...) Also, it kept the radio much higher than I like it.

I cradle the Tx with the middle, ring and pinky fingers of each hand and pinch the sticks. I fly a 9CAP with flaps set on the right hand slide switch, which is activated by the middle finger.

BTW, I taught myself to fly with 6 planes and a simulator, then joined a club to refine my skills. I started with thumbs and the instructor had me try pinching the sticks and now I can't fly thumbs. I find I have better control of the plane and a better grip on the radio but some damn fine pilots in our club fly thumbs only. Bottom line is, if you're new, try both to find what you like, if you're not, fly however you feel comfortable.


Ed

I doubt that even 50% of "instructors" have any idea what the rudder is used for. Walk up the line of flyers at the typical field. Well over half are flying right stick only, once the wheels leave the ground.

LOL yes I'm aware, I'm sure some of my fellow flyers thought I was fly fishing out there sometimes....I dont really care for a strap either but it just seemed like you'd have to have one to fly the pinch method...I'm a thumber...Rog

Need a neck strap to fly pinch?????

Look closely at all the guys flying with thumbs. See how they flip the dualrate switches. A bunch of guys who fly thumbs hold the TX with as few fingers as us pinchers use. And over half at my field have their index fingers up the side of the TX or higher.

A neck strap can actually be a safety measure. That is, after you solve the added risk it causes while starting engines and the minor problem it causes hooking it up.

If you want to fly comfortably with precision, fly with a neckstrap. You can get away and thousands of sport flyers do fine without it but there is no question that when your brain is using some effort to make sure you dont drop the radio, the quality of what you do in flight isnt going to be as good. If you cant tell the difference with/without a neckstrap then you really REALLY need to practice.

BTW............ About the guys who buddybox beginners and that are thumbs only flyers............

Have you ever looked closely at the problem of holding the trainer switch while you're buddyboxing a beginner?

We've got a thumbs only instructor who holds the trainer switch with his thumb. It is actually a liability for him (not much of one, since he's so experienced at buddyboxing) in some ways.

An instructor who has more than one lefthand finger available all the time can constantly keep the master-TX's throttle in play while keeping the trainer switch pressed. The guys who can't use anything but his thumb on that side is going to have to juggle sometime. If your student has the airplane from taxi out, then the instructor is going to have a second or two of juggling.

And there are other times when an instructor might be advised to adjust his throttle while the student is in control.

None of these times are really a big problem for most instructors, but they do exist. And if you can use more than just your thumb you're a lot better off.

(And if you do use more than just your thumb, then you're holding the TX the same way a pincher holds it.... so........)

Mike,

This is a ridiculous argument. By your theory, I should also lie down to fly because some part of my brain is working to keep my body upright. To answer your 2nd point- I can tell a difference; I am much more comfortable and smoother without a neck strap. If you like a neck strap, then fly with one, but for you to imply that my flying is substandard because I don't use one is silly. My flying is substandard all on it's own...

Ed

This seems to be a hot topic right now. My wife and I had a conversation about this.
I started out learning to fly with my thumbs. Occasionally while learning, I found that I'd be absent-mindedly applying rudder since my thumb was on the stick.
Some instructors will say not to touch the left stick until after you learn to fly with the right.
If that's what the instructor says, do it.
I use thumbs now and will never switch to pinching. I think I have more control. :shrugs:
G

Yah, ok..... for whatever type of flying you are doing Im sure its great.

For the original poster there are some things that feel right but they lead to bad habits. Like flying thumbs and not using a neckstrap.. ... I learned thumbs and it handicaps me and everyone that I complete with that flies thumbs in competition. There are only a scant few top competitors in RC aerobatics that fly thumbs... some of them are GREAT but thy are the exception and not the rule. And I guarantee you that 100% of them fly with a neckstrap, there is a reason for it...

Hey fellas, don't make enemy's or get in an argument on my account. I was just wondering about the pros/cons between thumbs and pinch method so I could tell my instructors what I really wanted to do.

Thanx Very Much Everybody,
Ronnie