Do all of the trainers of a given wing type (flat-bottom, semi-symetrical, symetrical) fly the same?
They all look like they're built the same.

Pretty much. As long as the wing type is the same when comparing. Change the wing type and you change the flight characteristics.

Planes of a specific general design do all fly basically the same way. Given a similar type, airfoil, weight, and wing loading, the planes will react similarly.

GOOD trainers are designed with a medium to light wing loading and average weight for the size. They have high-lift, blunt leading edge airfoils and large tail surfaces. They have tricycle landing gear and a lot of dihedral. They fly slowly and self-correct to some extent. They react gently to control inputs, and have no bad habits.

Dr.1

Having flown the LT-40 I would agree that the basic concept is pretty much the same as others. However, this morning I watched someone fly an altered LT-40 that was highly acrobatic. He had changed the trike gear for a tail dragger and put in a 4 cycle of about a 60 size. Also, he had changed the gear mounting and added wheel pants. Looked like a totally different airplane with the LT-40 markings. Flew differently also because changing the gear setup reduced the drag and the plane became much more acrobatic. I am thinking about rebuilding mine.

huddlehd2

As the above answers state, yes they have the same basic aerodynamic relationships. However what is "about the same" to the experienced pilot can be a world of difference to the new pilot-to-be.

Just a minor change in thrust-line, wing incidence, CG settings, engine power-available, finished weight can each make notable differences.

For example the Great Planes PT-series looks like basically the same as the Hobbico Superstar, yet in flight the PT has far too much dihedral to the point of being, IMO, a "squirrel". The Superstar is a superior trainer, and with power such as the LA-40 it is just a great combination. Now install a Super-Tigre .40 and it is very peppy, yet still in the excellent trainer category.
So many try to put something like the A/f-X 46 in it and it is far too over-powered. The beginner is not yet ready to operate at lower throttle settings plus being able to adjust to a fast (thus more control sensitive) airplane when full throttle has to be applied.

Those that never learn to fly on the wings, but merely the power alone are called "airplane drivers". Those that can and do fly on the wing yet are able to use all the power available are called "pilots". [8D]

So in reality, while airplanes of like-configuration have the same basic characteristics, no two airplanes fly exactly the same for the discerning pilot.

Throw a hot 60 engine on an LT40 and you can knife edge at 10 feet above the runway!!!. Well not me, but I have watched another pilot do it. He added a larger fuel tank to match the engine and increaed the throws but didn't do any other mods![8D]

I took an Eaglet and modified it. Took out most of the dihedral, made it a tail dragger, increased the throws, and put an OS .32 in it. It was a great-flying sport plane!

Dr.1

The differences between all the trainers aren't as great as the differences you can see in one specific model, depending on how it's built, set up, and powered.

In general yes, but there are serious duds out there. I encountered something calleda Paragon -- it certainly wasn't. It looked like a standard 40/46 trainer, but it was an abominable pig to fly. truly & remarkeably hatefull as a trainer. After extensive modification it eventually was used successfully to train a single student, then was hung up in the student's garage, never to see the sky again -- we all hope.

Hehehahaha... I did the same thing many years ago... flattened the wing, took 2 (!!) bays out of each wing panel, put on a .45 with tuned pipe, counter-balanced the alierons and elevator, and set up as a taildragger. WOW! Fast, crazy flying machine. Glide ratio of a brick, but a ball of fun to fly :-)

No.

Trainers with similar airfoils will exhibit all the characteristics of that particular wing section, but that's where true commonality actually ends. Of course, if many of the other design incorporated features are virtually identical from one particular trainer to another, then what's in a name or covering, naturally it's the same rose of a different colour. As there are basically a number of characteristics which are desirable in a good trainer to enhance and accelerate learning, eg: high straight rectangular wing with positive dihedral, trike wire undercarriage, uncowled upright mounted engine, then to the uncritical eye, most trainers look the same, and to the equally undiscerning 'driver', fly the same.

Though both high wing with all the commonalities mentioned above, an example of two trainers which are completely dissimiliar both in appearance and handling would be Phoenix's Classic and SIG's LT-40. And two which bear close visual and design resemblence which fly similarly, Global's RCM Trainer 40 and VMAR's Discovery.

[quote]ORIGINAL: Hossfly



As the above answers state, yes they have the same basic aerodynamic relationships. However what is "about the same" to the experienced pilot can be a world of difference to the new pilot-to-be.

Just a minor change in thrust-line, wing incidence, CG settings, engine power-available, finished weight can each make notable differences.

This reply is so true. Each learning to fly may remember crashing and then getting another trainer model instead and having success, or the other way around. Some trainers have established a fine reputation as a trainer, and others have not over the decades of this hobby. Naming trainer models as good or bad in spite of all fitting in the trainer category by design, can start a debate as others may experience entirely different experiences than my own. But I'll do it anyway (hehehe). Even more notable is the fact that no two pilots fly/train the same either. Some are wild on the sticks and panic at the slightest change. Some are naturals. Just as all trainers will not give you equal flying characteristics, the student will not all progress or start out equally either. So picking an LT-40 or SuperSport is a good idea as clearly noted here from earlier posts. Others I think are at the top of the class are Telemaster (.40 or Senior), SIG KADET (Senior or known as the Giant Senior today), and the slowest of them all, the Butterfly .15 with a very good 99" wingspan! It's like a powered glider with a polydihedral wing, and only three channels. What makes that work is it's a tail dragger, and most graduate to those as a second plane anyway. But again, you have some serious problems out there, and in spite of that fact, they remain popular due to clever advertising. For instance, has anyone ever really learned to fly on a Nexstar Select RTF trainer? What a disaster those are fully dressed! Let the debates begin! One more thing about trainers, check out those Hobbico electric trainers with the 400 brush motors. What a nightmare. Underpowered to the point of stalling immediately after take off. They are trainers that also that look like trainers and fly horribly in any category.

Bigger is better. I think the Giant or Senior sized trainers have a clear advantage to teaching a new pilot for the reason of stability, easy to see, slow to respond, and having more resistance to gusts and wind. I teach beginners often, and these opinions are based upon that long term and current experience in trying all kinds of trainers on the market today. Ultimately, $379 for a trainer is a mistake. Don't Nexstar your way into a failed attempt to learn when it barely flies with experienced pilots behind the controls! A $60 trainer ARF is really fitting most budgets and what is really exciting to see in this ad is the man is standing on the wing! Pretty strong plane. Check out this link and go from there for the other components. http://www.ak-models.com/intermediate_trainer_40.htm
I've been buying from this source for just about every type plane out there and have never been disappointed with the quality of any of those kits. Bye bye Tower Hobbies! No more Monokote streamers behind my planes...

What was the question again???