chevy43

Ok I'm just finishing my first gallon of fuel. I learned a bit on a electric foam powered glider - then bought a used LT40 and flew that till it got stuck 75' up in a tree.

Now I'm on an LT 40 type chinese no name ARF kit. I built it with about 3/4" of diheadral turned it into a tail dragger and it is powered with a Fox 40. I flew it for the first time today.

I do most of my turns with alerons and elevator and my rudder thumb isn't getting much practice.

I've been practicing touch and goes and landing aproches. I want to start using the rudder more to get a good line on my landings.

What would be a good rudder practice drill?

Razor-RCU

My Feedback: (50)

Good post--- most people go YEARS without learning about the Rudder.

You can intentionally try to land in a cross-wind (once you are comfortable) and use the rudder to crab your way in..

You can use rudder and elev. ONLY in your turns- try to keep the same altitude.

Once you get a more aerobatic airplane you can do "Flat-turns" where you use the rudder (large throws) to make a turn and use the elev and ail to keep the airplane "flat" as you turn. Looks strange but is difficult and good practice. Knife edge is another--

You can induce a spin on the trainer (once you are confortable again) by using the rudder/ail/ and elev. the practice is using opposite rudder (and other controls) to recover.

Keep us posted!

bigtim

My Feedback: (13)

touch and goes would be the best practice drill for a beginner, the most common use for your rudder is take off and landing of course . i use my sim. to practice rudder moves and to see how planes react to rudder input , I just got the G-3 and my flying is noticeably smoother and of course if you crash there is always the reset button .

chevy43

How realistic are those simulators? I thought about getting one but they are more than getting a new plane if I crash this one.......

bigtim

My Feedback: (13)

the G-3 sim is pretty sweet when I first got back into the hobby I got a NEXTAR which came with a sim for that plane, not to impressive ,the plane flys realistic enough but the backgrounds were like a weak video game this new one is pretty sweet lots of planes to try, and great backgrounds clear and some are photo real . the one thing I did have to do was upgrade my video card for the graphics my old one was just that old other than that it was plug and play for me when I get home fly on the sim for a few min. a day and when I get to the field my transmitter feels alot more comfortable in my hands. you can tweek the planes also to resemble your particular plane . BTW towerhobbies has the G-3 and a add on program for 200.00-there monthly special I think its 25.00 off for me it has been worth it .

MikeEast

My Feedback: (3)

Good drills for rudder.

Learn to do a stall turn.
Pull straight up, fly vertically STRAIGHT UP. Use the rudder to correct your line. At the top slow the plane, bump the throttle as you full rudder the plane back over to a vertical dive. When you can go straight up, stall over in < 1 wing span you are doing pretty good.

Learn to fly STRAIGHT across the field.
Line up about 50' high 50 yards out and 150yards upwind of yourself and fly STRAIGHT across the field. Use the elevator to correct altitude and the rudder to maintain a straight line down the field. Only use the bare minimum of ailerons just to keep the wings level. DO NOT use the ailerons to bank and correct heading.

Learn to do a really REALLY round loop.
Learn to do a 100' diameter loop. Start and exit at about 100'. Make it as big as your engine has the power to pull it through. Learn to correct with the rudder as the plane is looping to keep it on a heading parallel to the runway through the entire loop. The trick is as the plane enters inverted flight, imagine that your left thumb is on the wingtip that is closest to you. Simply push the rudder stick in the direction that you want that closest (inboard) wingtip to go to maintain heading. Again only use the ailerons to keep the wings level. Try to fly the loop at a constant distance out.. Dont let it wander in or out as you are flying through the loop.

Slightly advanced beginner
Slow roll.
Learn to fly a slow roll. Start to roll and hold the aileron. As the plane rolls towards knife edge start to put in the opposite rudder of the aileron you are inputting. As the plane passes through inverted, come out of the rudder and begin adding down elevator to hold the plane inverted and level. COntinue to roll and as you begin to re enter knife edge start to input the same rudder as the aileron input you are using. As the plane begins to come to upright, ease out of the rudder and level out. Start out trying to do about a 3 second slow roll and as you get better make them longer and longer. Dont let anyone tell you that you cant slow roll a trainer. You might have to increase the rudder to maximum deflection but it most certainly can be done.

That will get you started.

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

All of Mike's suggestions are good ones, but I wouldn't try a slow roll with an LT-40 - they do them Slow enough

Another good excersize is to do a side slip on landing.

Start high (Really high at first) and make a landing approach (But do it too high, you're not going to land, just practice lining up)

As you turn to Final, just before the turn is complete, Feed in opposite rudder.

Now, at this point, all planes will react differently, so exactly what control inputs you will need will depend on your plane - but basically what you are shooting for is for the plane to freeze it's banked position (You may need to incease aileron input) and the plane will slide somewhat sideways down the glide slope.

With airplanes like trainers, Cubs, and the like, it is a really impressive looking maneuver and a great way to drop altitude without gaining a lot of unwanted speed.

MikeEast

My Feedback: (3)

This is true[8D]

chevy43

Wow Mike I like the side slip idea.

I've done aileron rolls on both planes. This one has a semi symetrical air foil and rolls fairly fast for a beginner like me.

I want all the tricks for landing I can get. I want to be able to put the plane down right where I want it. Unfortunatly I fly at places where this skill is really important!

MikeEast

My Feedback: (3)

Here is my personal best trick for teaching new pilots to land softly. .

I call it "the 3 inch rule".

Bring the aiplane in on a nice glide slope and it should make an appraoch so that it is only about 1'-2' above the ground BEFORE it crosses in front of you. You should be feeding in some elevator all the way in as it slowly sinks to the runway pulsing the throttle to keep it on a steady glide slope and a stable speed to the runway. As the plane slowly sinks in below 2' if you have not already, chop the throttle and really start trying to hold your altitude with by adding elevator without climbing. The plane should be going slow enough that even though you are adding elevator it is sinking slowly. When it reaches 3" off the runway hooooooooooooold it there just as long as you can without adding throttle but just easing in the elevator. This is effectively flaring the airplane. The plane will sit on the runway just as light as a feather and without a bounce. If you have the right speed on it may roll 20-50' to a stop.

A few rules of thumb for me.

If you bounce when you land, your angle of approach was probably just a little to steep or you were going to fast to flare, or stall the airplane just as it touches down.

Always setup the approach to the runway off of your shoulder that is closest to the airplane. Stand with your toes pointing at the runway, body square to the runway and turn your head to look at the airplane. Never stand facing the airplane or "chase: the airplane around the sky with your body. Setup your turn to final so that your chin is almost on your shoulder and the airplane is in your line of sight looking straight down your shoulder. From that point guide the airplane into the runway. It makes it easier to lineup straight on the runway, AND as the plane is appraoching you are flying away from the flight line and not towards it to hit the center of the runway. All that being said, you never want to fly behind the pilots flight line, It just is not safe.

Never start your approach so that the airplane is flying diagonally across the runway coming towards you (outside in), its too hard to judge depth from that perspective. I always try to line up the aiplane on the inside line of the runway from the starting point above, and work from there. Plus you are flying the airplane towards yourself and your buddies, that is unsafe.

If there is a significant crosswind, a lot of times I will walk out to about 10' off the edge of the runway, just so I can get a better feel for depth and where the plane is in relationship to the centerline of the runway. If you are standing too far off its hard to tell where the plane is at.

chevy43

Jeez Mike - how much do I owe you? You give some great advice!

Thanks,

Treven.

MikeEast

My Feedback: (3)

Its not original from me, although it is how I fly and how I learned to use the rudder/land etc...... Those are mostly just basic fundamentals that were taught to me and I use to teach other people, some of it I learned on my own but most if that stuff is just handed down. [8D]

sigrun

First rudder practice 'drill' needed here is theoretical. ie: A proper understanding of rudder's function. Here it is put basically and simply, but find a textbook explaining and illustrating effects of controls and read in full so that you first understand rudder's purpose and the need for its application as a part of the co-ordinated use of the primary flight controls.

Rudder => primary effect of this control is YAW about the NORMAL axis. Secondary effect is ROLL about the LONGITUDINAL axis. Putting it simply, although (especially in models) we can, we ordinarily don't and shouldn't use rudder as the primary control to turn the aircraft.

Once you understand that, it should become apparent using rudder to 'get a good line on landings' isn't either a desirable or efficient corrective technique. Correctively yawing the nose straight co-ordinated with the flare when using crab technique for crosswind landings excepted - only mentioned here for the sake of clarity.

Rudder's primary use is to co-ordinated application with aileron in turns to prevent a slipping or skidding turn. Just like the co-ordinated application of (up) elevator with a turn, the amount applied varies dependent upon the AoB which defines the rate of turn, the speed, and the size of the surface area of the control. It's something you just have to be aware of, and develop co-ordinated application throught repetitive practice.

A sound rudder practice drill for this is to perform simultaneous co-ordinated level turns reversing from one turn into the next performing a flat horizontal figure 8. First do them inwards then after a while, change to outwards. Perform these at a level and sufficiently close to you at moderate speed, but where you still have good effective control, so you can get a good visual appreciation of whether the turn is co-ordinated or not. Because we can't feel whether the turn is a balanced in an R/C model, we rely totally upon visual accuity to determine it. If you have difficulty determining whether the turn is balanced or not, ask someone who flies pattern to demonstrate unco-ordinated turns and then conversly turns co-ordinated with rudder to you so you can discern and appreciate the difference.

Now you have an appreciation, with constant repeticious practice, after a while co-ordinated use of rudder will become rote learnt and seem instinctive.

IBrakeForNobody

My Feedback: (16)

I had a crash course on cross wind landings during the last fun fly (pun intended ). I think crosswind landings would be good practice for most anyone; ya never know when you'll need to know how to do them! Nothing like seeing the airplane land 45 degrees against the centre line of the runway while holding full right rudder! [X(]

agexpert

My Feedback: (1)

Flying foamies and learning foamie hovers, flat turns and KE's have really helped me learn to use the rudder more. I do it without thinking now when I fly my glow planes. AND...you can practice with a foamie almost anywhere there are a few unoccupied acres.

I'm not addicted....I CAN STOP ANYTIME I WANT!!

elenasgrumpy

My Feedback: (4)

I am lucky in that I got into the habit of using my rudder while co-ordinating turns & as my primary control surface when landing. I'm really not sure how or why but it just felt like the thing to do right off the bat to me. It just seem to make since when I was learning to fly that when landing & getting pretty low in altitude that I didn't want to use the ailerons too much because that tips the plane one way or the other. Once level & coming in on final approach I wanted to keep my wings level so I would then do any steering adjustments with the rudder the rest of the way in. As it turns out I got the landing thing down pretty quick that way & am now able to land on a regular basis better than a lot of my flying buddies with much more experience that for some reason got into the habit of flying with the right stick only. Especially in the heavy crosswinds that we get all the time at our field.

So for me I think a good practice drill would be to simply do practice approaches using only the rudder as much as possible to keep yourself on your runway heading then as you get comfortable with it turn your practice approaches into touch & goes.

The other thing you can do with a Trainer is to try to increase the roll rate by using some rudder with your ailerons to straighten out those ugly slow Trainer rolls, & like someone already mentioned if your ready to start doing some knife-edges, that requires full rudder to hold a good edge for as long as you can. Good luck with your practice. You're trying to learn a good thing, too many people fly ailerons only & it shows in their limitations. You will make yourself a better pilot with what you are trying to do![sm=thumbup.gif][sm=thumbup.gif][sm=thumbup.gif]

MikeEast

My Feedback: (3)

Chevy,
earlier you asked about simulators. They are a fantastic tool for a lot of things but dont quite replace the value of real flight. They can however, teach you how to fly almost completely. I have seen a lot of new pilots that come to me and tell me that they have spent a lot of time on the sim but have never flown. Every single time I have heard that, the student has already learned basic upright flight orientation and after the initial shock of flying in a real 3 dimensional world they quickly are able to perform in the real world what they were able to do on the sim.

For me, the simulator is a great platform for learning new things without risk. I learned to fly the old fashioned way with an instructor, but 2 years later I got Aerofly Pro Deluxe and in 2-3 months after I got my simulator my skills improved 10 fold. I went from a guy who flew reasonably well but really had not completely mastered the rudder, to being able to perform low altitude high alpha 3D maneuvers relatively cleanly and with confidence. I also learned to do a lot of difficult maneuvers like rolling circles of several different varieties, misc geometric maneuvers with integrated rolls, just all sorts of stuff. I'm not talking about just muddling through, but perform them reasonably well. I still have a long way to go, but I feel like the simulator took literally years off of the learning curve for me. I think if you spend the time, it will take years of anyones learning curve.

With a sim you can immediately see and then correct your mistakes, You can make mistakes, crash, and 5 seconds later you are back in the air correcting what you did wrong on the last flight.. At the field you may get 3-4 10-15 minute flights in a day, Thats a grand total of 60 minutes, much of which is spent taking off and landing and in short bursts. On the sim you can fly continuously without having to rest and can rack up a ton of repetitions on a maneuver without the worries of running out of fuel, crashing or wondering if your wife is mad at you because you are late for dinner.

I would say that the simulator has easily saved me $20000 in crashes, and again cut literally years off of the learning curve, allowing me to do what I only dreamed of being able to do before.

BillS

Have a helper move the rudder trim to one side and remain in place so he can put it back when you get in trouble. Often it takes less than two circuits to become disoriented and confused. The helper should not tell you which way the trim was moved.

Bill

elenasgrumpy

My Feedback: (4)

I think Bills drill is for mor advanced fliers. I think that drill might just crash me.[&:]

tuwood

Amen to that!! I'd still be learning to Taxi if it wasn't for the Sim.

As for learning the rudder, I kicked 15MPH crosswinds with gusts into the sim and spent about a week doing nothing but takeoffs and landings. The mind game I use in my head as when the plane is flying towards me on approach I push the tail in the direction I want it to go.

I have done hundreds of heavy crosswind landings (mostly on the sim) that it doesn't even remotely raise the blood pressure to land my plane flying sideways into a heavy crosswind now.

As the others have stated it's all about practice and repitition. It takes a long time to get that practice in the real world, but only takes a few nights of flying while watching the news to get it in hundreds of flights on the sim.

I'll give you an example of the power of the sim. I am an aspiring 3D pilot and decided one night a couple months ago that I wanted to learn how to do rolling harriers (fairly advanced 3D trick). I spent about 3 or 4 hours on the sim on Friday, another 3 hours on saturday, and on Sunday I went to the field with my Katana and guess what... They weren't pretty, but I was doing rolling harriers after only a few tries. I'll still have to spend a lot of flights perfecting them and making them consistent in the real world, but my learning curve was drastically improved.

Good luck!!

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

I use the same technique, but I call it the 6" rule...

My wife would have something to say about that

MikeEast

My Feedback: (3)