Hi everyone, I just joined this website today. This site has lots of great information. I am seeking your opinion on the following three questions: whether or not I should seek out an instructor for training; your ideas on what transmitter I should purchase; and a question regarding servo strenght for the showtime 4D .90 aircraft.

I have a pilots license and have over 250 hours flight experience in single engine complex, and multi-engine aircraft. I also have an instrument rating and commercial rating. I am curious if my flight experience will help towards my learning to fly RC aircraft or if I should seek the aid of an instructor?

I am currently building a Hangar 9 Showtime 4D .90 ARF. Since I have no experience flying RC aircraft I have decided to purchase a small trainer aircraft. My parents own 160 acres of land that has two large fields on it. Flying area is not a problem for me as I am far away from any cities or airports.

As far as the transmitter goes, I have been saving money for a JR PCM 10X model. Money is not a real concern for the transmitter. My reasoning for thinking of getting the 10 channel radio is that I would like to continue this hobby and purchase a larger RC aircraft in a few years. My question here is should I purchase a cheaper less complex transmitter or should I spend the extra money for the JR 10x.

The JR 10x comes with four 320 ounce torque strength servos. The showtime 4D requires only 80 ounces of torque. If I was to purchase the JR 10x, should I change the servos from the 320 ounce torque to the 80 ounce torque servos?

Any and all input will be greatly appreciated.

Yes, get an instructor.

Your flight experience will help a great deal in understanding the mechanics of how your models fly, but it will help very little in actually controlling the plane. I've known USAF fighter pilots who had been flying for 15 years who had to relearn flight for R/C. It is very different.

Good idea on not using the the Showtime for a trainer.

If you want expandability and control, I'd get the JR 9303 air or heli. The 10x is a fine radio, but in a few years, when you are ready for 40% IMAC type planes etc., they will have released something new and better. The 9303 is a lot less expensive and has most of the functions of the 10x. It is the radio I chose for my return to the sport and hobby of R/C flight and is what I would recommend based on what you've said.

I would get JR DS821 servos run off of a 6v rx pack for your Showtime, and some analog servos for your trainer.

I've had several full scale pilots seek flight training, a couple of which trashed a plane or two before swallowing thier pride and asking for help. A couple that were smart enough to ask for help up front.

The best students are those with a simulator.

Your flight experience will be a hindrance, not a help, as the experience of flying the plane outside the cockpit will be completely contrary to everything you have learned. Yes you should seek an instructor.

As for the Showtime 4D .90, if you've already purchased it, put it back in the box, find a nice safe corner of the basement to put it in, and don't get it out until you can fly the snot out of a good basic trainer. Get one of the RTF models (see the sticky at the beginning of this forum on models to choose from). An aerobatic plane like the Showtime 4D will be absolutely unforgiving as a trainer and is probably better suited to a 3rd or even 4th plane. When you learned to fly, did you learn on an aerobatic plane, or a high wing trainer? Same principal applies. Learn to fly the basics with the tool designed for that purpose.

As for the radio, if you go with the RTF, you can always purchase another radio when you're ready to move up to larger aircraft. The JR 10x PCM is way more radio than you need at this point. Get a good 6 channel Computer radio (such as the HiTech Optic 6), and you'll have plenty of radio for the next 2-3 years while you're improving your skill. Most of us have 2-3 (or more) radios anyway.

Brad

Welcome, glad to have you onboard!
The flight experience will help in that you understand the concepts of flying. It might hurt because your experience is from within the plane looking out rather than standing on the ground looking at the plane.
Sounds like a nice setup, I'm jealous. It would be really helpful to find a local club or instructor to help you learn. The AMA club locator: http://www.modelaircraft.org/clubsearch.aspx is a good place to start looking. Local hobby shops can be another source of help.
If money's no object, buy the best you can now. However, you can also buy a basic 4 channel radio for about $120 that will be perfectly adequate for flying the trainer. When you get to the point where you're ready to advance, invest in a more full featured radio. While some will say this is a waste of money, the $120 is very little more than the cost of a standard flight pack, receiver, servos, battery pack, etc. It will also simplify learning since basic radios are easier to setup and usually have less issues when trying to buddy box with the instructor. As an added bonus, if that expensive 9 or 10 channel radio ever dies, you'll have the 4 channel that you can at least use while you're waiting. Neither way is right or wrong, it all depends on which direction you want to choose.

I agree with Brad regarding what you should do with the Showtime. It is a very high performance plane, and would not be well suited to even be a 2nd or 3rd plane. First of all, the set-up is more critical since its a larger model than most. You're going to need to have the set-up just right, and knowledge of things like that just comes with time and experience gained. The manual is no substitute for experience and practice. I've been doing this for years and I still learned a lot of new stuff when I assembled my Showtime recently. Put it back in the box and forget about for now (yes, I know that will be extremely difficult since its such a good looking plane )

Another issue with the Showtime is the double taper of the wings. The chord and thickness of the wing decreases towards the wingtip, and this introduces a whole new set of flying characteristics that you cannot successfully directly transition too from a constant chord and thickness wing of a trainer.

First of all, join the AMA (www.modelaircraft.org) and use this link to find a chartered club near you: http://www.modelaircraft.org/clubsearch.aspx

Check out the club and get to know the people there, and ask questions!. Find out who the instructors are and talk with them about training. The vast majority of clubs offer free instruction, and some even have a club trainer that you can use to learn on. If you want to get your own trainer, this one would be just fine:
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...=LXEKF3**&P=ML

But here is a page of other choices, most of which are excellent: http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...3p?&C=ACB&P=ML

Being a real world pilot does not translate really any useful knowledge to R/C, but things like when and how wings stall, and how to prevent them and get out of them are good examples. You have useful knowledge of airplanes in general. But as a pilot sitting in a cockpit, you do not have to think much of which way to turn the yoke or push the pedals to guide the aircraft. Now imagine a plane flying towards you. How would you control it? To turn right, you would have to apply right aileron, which is the planes left, and the plane will react by turning to YOUR left. It can get confusing in a hurry. Thats what the instructor is for, and he will teach you things that you cant find in a manual, like tips and tricks, proper field and flying ettiquette, and how to take care of your plane and radio equipment.

While this is not the ONLY way to get into R/C flying, its the route that is sure to lead to success with minimum time and $ wasted, and it will make you a better R/C pilot in the long run.

I too am a full scale pilot. I have about 450 hours and am a CFI. I just got into this hobby. I have the Hangar 9 P-51 PTS RTF. The day after my first flight on the buddy cord with a friend I bought the RealFlight G3 simulator. That was 3 weeks ago. I soloed after the 3rd day with the buddy cord and am now doing loops, rolls, snap rolls and am just experimenting with inverted flight. I took off all the slow-down stuff that came on the plane and switched to a 2-blade prop. I have had a couple hard landings that damaged the landing gear block in the wing (they used WAY to light wood for the block, IMO) and the last mishap was a botched go-around...ripped the wings off on that one when it cartwheeled. (Fixed now.) Being a full scale pilot won't help you much in learning this hobby EXCEPT that when you crash you will know WHY it happened. I've played that botched go-around over-and-over in my mind and feel like an idiot for ignoring the left-turning tendencies when you are at a low airspeed with a high angle of attack and you jam in the throttle. I think the biggest part of my quick learning curve is the G3 simulator. I came back home and practiced that type of go-around several times on the G3. (Right rudder is your friend. Plus you can fly that on rainy windy days too!
This is a great hobby and I wish you the best.

DaveCFI

I bet you have put way more than 250 hours in driving a car, so try driving a radio control car around a race track without crashing into a pylon or wall. You may know how to fly but you have not learned radio control. It's not as easy as you think. To get an idea of just how unnatural RC is to someone who hasn't done it, fix something that you can only see in a mirror. Dentists do this all the time but it took them a while to learn it.

a sound piece of advice get a sim either the G-3 or AFPD and get used to the sticks just having some time playing with the sticks in your hands will help immensely then go through RCKens thread on trainers as stated after talking with your local trainer and after considering cost get a proper trainer . I was lucky after a long layoff I went ahead and purchased a NEXTAR on impulse fortunately for me my club has great pilots and helped me trim and tune my plane so it would actually fly without crashing thankfully, still crashed a bit though LOL repairing your model is half the fun

All of the above advice is all great, i'd just add 1 more thing to it. It migh not hurt to check this transmitter out as a back up or standby as it's quite inexpensive also and has loads of features a $500 tx has at half the price $200. Tracker 111
http://www.polkshobby.com/index1.html

Here's another endorsement for the Tracker III. And for a flight simulator. You might already have one that offers "Tower view" mode. A simulator's probably the best shortcut to preserving your investment.

But why make the investment or choose a plane up front? Go to a club, see if an instructor has a demo plane and will let you have a trial flight. He'll have the tandem transmitter instruction setup, no real risk to the hardware. You might find one of the club members has a good practice plane and is ready to retire it - and will part with it for minimal cost.

Best wishes,
Dave Olson

Welcome to RCU and to the hobby. You made the right first choice by joining this website. I have learned a lot already and am still learning.

I am a flight instructor, with several hundred hours flight time and as others have noted your flight experience will be a handicap when it comes to flying. You know other important aspects like preflighting and the physics of flight, but the first time you try to fly with the plane coming at you you'll understand what we mean. It's MUCH different than being in the cockpit 'feeling' the G's as you maneuver.

Locate and join a local RC club because you will learn so much more than just flying techniques. You'll find out the best frequency to use at the field (less likely that you'll have to wait because someone else is using that channel), how to tune the engine, etc.

Look at the AMA website here [link=http://www.modelaircraft.org/]Acadeny of Model Aeronautics[/link] for a lot of information. Also, click on the following to [link=http://www.modelaircraft.org/clubsearch.aspx]locate a club near you.[/link]

Welcome and keep us informed as to your progress.

Thank you all for your input. It is greatly appreciated.

I had one other question regarding which trainer to purchase. I was thinking of getting a Hangar 9 P-51 PTS because of its ability to change from a slower configuration to a faster one. As for the instructor, I plan to join an RC flight group at the University of North Dakota to learn how to fly a RC model. It is the university that I am currently attending.

I will also take all of your advice and sadly put my showtime 4D away for now

Thank you all again for your help with my questions.

1st off WELCOME!! Glad to have you, feel free to post up and ask any question you like. We dont mind repeating ourselves in the least bit.

2nd, although you do NOT want to try to learn to fly with a Showtime, if you are a young person with good reflexes and coordination and you thorougly learn the basics with your trainer you will not have any problems with the Showtime as a second plane, provided you stay on low "rates" so that the plane handles gently. Also, that flight simulator will be a really big help in making your progression a little faster to a plane with a symmetrical airfoil like the Showtime.


I am not sure about the p51, its considered a trainer, but I think you will find that it will not be a warbird that you will want to continue flying after you become a reasonably proficient pilot able to fly on your own.


Again, the main thing you should get out of all of this is GET AN INSTRUCTOR.. Its just insurance that will virtually guarantee you to learn to fly successfully without losing an airplane. Join the AMA now ($58), that way AMA sanctioned clubs (most all of them) will allow you to fly. The instructions should be free of charge. Do not pay for instruction unless you are asking the instructor to make special provisions to come and teach you to fly (extra days, driving an inordinately long distance,,, etc).

As far as equipment. If money is not a concern I would recommend a Sig Kadet LT40. You can get either a kit (build from a box of sticks) or an ARF (90% built, just install the hinges, your electronics and stuff, setup the radio and go find that instructor!).
I would recommend the OS .46AX if you want 2 stroke or my personal choice would be a 4 stroke OS .52FS. Its a nicer engine and 4 stroke engines are my preference becuase they develop more torque and are a little smoother and quiter. The .46AX is in my opinion the best engine out there in its class.

ELectronics. If you want to go all out go with a Futaba 7CA or 9CAP Super. They are GREAT radios and for $400 you get a radio that wil never need to be upgraded. As Chuck said, the standard 4 channel radio is also a practical option for training and if you have plenty of $$$ you can almost look at it as a disposable radio. JR and Airtronics also make some nice comparable radios, but most folks fly either JR or Futaba.

As an instructor, I would not recommend the Hanger 9 P-51 PTS. Its a marketing gimmick. I've had a chance to see two in action, and fly one. I was un-impressed with its flyability with all the training aids installed. With the speed brakes, flaps, and wing extensions on, I could barely get it safely off our grass runway. Although the plane flew very slowly, it took lots of stick movement to get it to respond. It improved slightly with the speed brakes removed.

The reason I don't like it as a trainer is that I believe it reinforces the beginners tendency to overcontrol the plane with large stick movements.

The SIG Kadet LT-40 is a fantastic trainer. Its big, and with a 46AX, TT PRO 46, or The SuperTiger 45 easily flys at 1/4 throttle. The only change I would make would be to scrap the wire gear and put heavier-duty aluminum landing gear.

Although not as large as the LT-40, the Towerhobbies trainer and the Hanger 9 Alpha Trainer are almost clones of each other, and have very good handling characteristics.

Good luck in your quest.

Brad

Welcome to the Universe! As a full scale pilot who now flies RC I found the simulator to be the biggest help. I spent maybe 40 to 50 hours on it before I went to the field. I used a 40 size trainer, and at the end of the first day was able to land it myself, but, I was still on a buddy box with the instructor. An instructor is a must for the first few flights IMO. I, personally, believe that having flown full scale does help in many ways. You understand the physics and dynamics of flight, you understand the need to slow down and flare in order to land, and also know how the various controls effect flight. Get a simulator, trainer and instructor and you will be flying on your own in a short time. Good luck!

Get an instructor. Not for the flying part, but for the most important aspect of model flying.

You need someone to look over your airplane and rig it correctly.
And then you're going to need someone who knows how to get the engine started.
And then you're going to need someone who knows how to set the needle valve.

All three of the above will kill your first model dead if not done correctly. To learn to fly, you need a model that's rigged correctly, and has a dependable engine that is set to run good. Miss any of these three and you're history before you even get a chance to dumbthumb the sucker into the ground.

Personal Opinion,

I think some individuals are suited to being self taught and others are more suited to instruction.
Certain areas you need help and advice.

My example: I had been raised inspired by flight with a father who was among the pioneers of hang-gliding and microlighting in NZ - as a 14/15 yr old kid I saved all my part-time job money for a kit and R/C gear - built my first kit glider and when I went to cover the wing the hobby shop man helped me to ensure no warp and some washout.

Then I spent an afternoon practising handlaunches and basic flight.
Then I spent an afternoon of launching from 10 foot hill aiming, crabbing, then full circle to land into the wind.
Then on a pod above the wing I mounted a babybee and flew circuits at 60 feet till cut out.
Then finally took her up as high as I could get on babybee for thermalling.
One day keen to impress father took her out in very strong/gusty conditions and lost total control numerous times before getting her down in one peice - GOOD EXPERIENCE!!

About 15 years later I finally got another cheap ARF electric glider - same process but probably only 30-40 minutes before I take it up thermalling.

Then I wanted an electric piper as trainer many people in this forum said it was not a good trainer - I went ahead anyway. I used FMS flight simulator flying a range of different planes and glider. What I learned with my first flight with the Cub when I just clipped a tree was patience is important and that HEAVIER POWERED PLANES need more room for approach and landing (My maiden flight had an obstructed landing site 15 by 25m that I could flare my glider in and if I hit the bamboo there was no damage) Once I found a suitable flying site I never had any problems flying or landing the Piper Cub.

The purpose of the cub was to learn 4 channel with a view to slope soaring. Well the other day with my new 4 channel electric glider a breeze came up and created lift on the ridge behind my launch site.

THE BEST experience ever was flying that figure 8 pattern for the first time enjoying what could potentially be a limitless flight time!!

Now I have the confidence to go to a slope and give it a go - I will make some more mistakes - GOOD EXPERIENCE!

I will be joining a club and whenever I meet people I will learn more about flying and site etiquette. NO DOUBT if I had had access to instructors I would be a better "pilot" and probably have less bad habits.

Along the way I need to thank those people who gave me advice or information (regardless of whether I followed it) because such advice was considered and always useful.

A big Thank You therefore goes out to people on this site who have freely offered me advice.

warmachine,

my name is cody stauffer and i will be attending the university of north dakota this fall as a freshman majoring in commercial aviation. i would be willing to teach you to fly as i am able to instruct. let me know if interested in some help by contacting me at [email protected]. see you in the fall

Welcome to the Addiction of R/C warmachine,

As far as Hangar 9's P51 Mustang PTS (Progressive trainer system) RTF (Ready to fly) plane is concerned, I heard different opinions, as I got it my first trainer but here in this forum some well experienced pilots/intructors told me that they taught on P51 of H9 their students who never flew a plane doing well, my mustang crashed after doing several flights with instructors, yes, its not a trainer but with droops and air brakes on landing gears and tilted flaps, it flies slow and good but depends upon how good your instructor is. I hope you can learn on this plane, its a beautiful flying machine, but experience told me that its better to fly high winger which is stable than low winger. Well Hangar 9 makes good products, they have a combo package for 40 size trainer which is alpha 40 trainer RTF which has 4 channel radio and .45 evolution engine for $289.99. I think its a good deal for a training plane. Features are here

Alpha 40 Trainer, RTF

Key Features

Top-quality J-Line Quattro radio from JR installed
Completely built and ready to fly in minutes
Hassle-free Evolution Trainer Power System installed
Super-stable, self-righting flight characteristics
Compact .40-size airframe

Specs

Wing Span: 63 in (1600 mm)
Overall Length: 52.5 in (1334 mm)
Wing Area: 710 sq in (45.8 dm²)
Flying Weight: 5.25 lbs (2.4 kg)
Radio: JR Quattro (installed)
Trim Scheme Colors: HANU866 True Red, HANU870 White, HANU872 Bright Yellow, HANU877 Orange
Hardware Included: Evolution Trainer Power System (installed)
Approx. Assembly Time: Less than 1 hour

Link is
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...ProdId=HAN2475

I hope it would be pretty helpful.

JR makes good radios, Im planning to buy their new 7 Channel Radio which is XP7202 with Synthesized Receiver for $329.


Take care Happy Flying

Mody

I disagree. It seems from what I have seen in here over a couple of years now that when full scale experience is a hindrance is because of the ol ego getting in the way. The fact that he comes in here asking the right questions, should I get an instructor? suggests to me that ego will not be a big part of the equation.

Having said that, let me first say welcome to RCU & I'm sorry it took me this long to say hello to you but I have been a little bit indisposed since you joined.

Should you get an Instructor?? Yes, definitely. Get a good Instructor & with your scale experience should catch on rather quickly I think, but to try it alone just because you have scale experience, now this is where they let their egos get them into trouble. The difference in orientation between in the cockpit & from standing outside the cockpit on the ground can be a huge difference for some to overcome, so get that Instructor & have a ball. They are free so enjoy it & use them. Good luck & wlcome to the greatast desease known to mankind![8D]

You obviously know how to fly an airplane. You know what it takes to take off, fly, turn and land. What you don't have is the eye hand coordination. Having an instructor will keep you from crashing when you loose orientation or when you can't get the plane lined up on the runway ect.
I personally don't think you need a trainer (feel free to disagree) based on my first two sentances. Once you get your eye hand coordination down, you will be extreamly bored with the plane. The only benefits you get from a trainer are slow flight (sometimes), some self correcting atributes and very gental stalls. Stick with the Showtime and a buddy box.