Currently I fly a CG falcon trainer and have almost completed a pt-60 trainer. I can fly the CG and perform basic stunts, recover, land and take off with no problem. Next I will be moving into the .60 size trainer, the big one! I have a bridi dirty birdi that is about 50% built. I am wondering if the dirty birdy would be a reasonable third aircraft within the future, like next summer or fall depending on how often I fly. Any advice?

The bigger trainer is fine for you now, based on what you said. Just go fly it. Sell the smaller trainer and the tird bird and get a stick as a second, second plane. (You really don't need 2 trainers IMHO).

Sturdy birds and spads are designed to take a crash. Buy and build planes that are designed to fly, not crash. As you gain experience and confidence, you will find that spending money and time on crummy planes is truly a waste. While crashes do happen to all of us, this hobby would be far less enjoyable if all we did was 'prepare' for crashes.

After you have mastered the stick and can land it from any reasonable altitude, attitude and distance...move-on in whatever direction you like.

HAVE FUN!!

Check out Post #29 on "Not for Beginners" That should help.Thanx Rob[sm=thumbup.gif]

I couldn't tell if agexpert was telling you to sell the Bridi or not. http://www.bridiairplanes.com/hangar/dirtybirdy60.html

IMO the Bridi is definitely NOT a second plane by any means but I would NOT sell it either. It is a fine plane, you just need to prepare for it with a low wing trainer first. As a second (or third since you have the PT) I'd suggest something like a Sig 4-star or Goldberg Tiger 2 in either 40 or 60 size. I feel either would give you a good feeling of low wing characteristics as well as a faster and more responsive plane.

You could try to trade/sell one of your high wing trainers toward the purchase of a low wing trainer. Get into the low wing now and you can be in the Birdi next summer if all goes well and depending on how your skills develope. Always seek help when making a major jump in performance levels.

trainers are trainers. The only difference is size and in your mind. If you can fly one resonably well then the other should follow. You will not learn any new skill sets with one over the other, small changes between trainers are how well they fly and glide rates and semetrical wings resist cross winds better. for new skill sets learn to fly a low wing aircraft with semitrical wings, little or no dehidral. The tiger and 4 star are great choices.

Age, I think you are confusing the Bridi with the Duraplanes. Trust me, the Dirty Birdy isn't anything close to the bricks that the Duraplanes are. But on that, they aren't a second plane too. I've had a Dirty Birdy and it's an extremely capable plane. Hang on to it and build it by all means, it's well worth it, but do it later on down the road. Maybe 3rd or 4th plane.

Hope this helps

Ken

OOPS!! I thought he meant a STURDY BIRDY. They were billed as being indestructible in the 90's. Basically a piece of gutter-pipe and a foam wing covered with packing tape with coroplast tail feathers. A real junker IMHO...I had one it weighed over 7 pounds with a .40.

I mis-read the post.

(It never flew because I didn't take my 1st lesson until 2005 and had long since trashed it, thankfully).

To progress you need to decide where you want to go.
Warbirds, pattern, 3D, ect...
After you master your trainer start heading toward your goal in steps.
Example: My goal is to fly scale aircraft, primarily warbirds.
My steps:
1, Kadet Senior= learned basic flight and some mild aerobatics
2, Hobbico Brightstar= Low wing trike gear, faster and more agile than the kadet (first low wing)
3, Hanger 9 P-51 PTS= Low wing tail dragger with progressive training aids (will maiden this weekend)(first tail dragger)
4, Hanger 9 AT-6 = Low wing taildragger, larger and more powerful than the P-51, (first retracts.First 4 stroke)
(will fly when I get comfortable with the P-51)
You can see how each step gets me closer to my goal.

Hi dassault,

The dirty birdy is a classic pattern plane designed to fly with an "old" 60 on a pipe and perform smoth pattern manouvers at high speed. I have one with a modern Irvine 61 and it is probably my most used model at the moment.

I would strongly suggest you follow the advice of a more intermediate type model before progressing to the dirty bird as whilst it will fly slowly and land beautifully when you open the tap things happen very quickly albeit smoothly.

I agree it is a third or fourth type model when you are very confident flying the "point and shoot" variety.

Good Luck,

Colin

I know that this will be an unpopular response, but it really depends on you. You know your limits. If you are totally and completely able to fly the plane without struggling with orientation then you can step up to whatever you want pretty much. I would avoid warbirds with heavy wingloads and jets maybe as second planes, but anything else should be more manageable than one might think. Scale aerobatic planes are not that hard to fly, as long as you keep a little speed on while you are learning to land.

If you are really doing what you are saying you are doing, then you should be able to fly any of the 60-90 size knockaround sport planes with no problem at all.

I went from a Kadet Senior, to a U CAN DO, to a pattern plane and a 30% Edge 540T in less than a year. Not bragging but there is nothing that says you have to go to a gentle flying second plane, there is not that says you don't. If you are absolutely wringing out your trainer, flying it like its borrowed and have no trouble getting out of awkward orientations then you will be able to handle just about anything.

If you are struggling with orientation at any level then just stick with trainers and work it out. But don't avoid doing things that make you uncomfortable, go after them. If you struggle making right turns then do nothing but fly right turns for a while. You have to find your defiencies and work through them

A typical progression goes kind of like this;

Start with a .40 size trainer
Switch to a .40 sport plane
Switch to a .60 to 1.20 sport or scale plane.
Get your first "big bird" and become a total big bird snob, forgetting all about your smaller planes
Auger in a $10,000 scale plane on it's maiden flight
Quit the hobby in disgust and ride motorcycles for a while
Rediscover your old .40 trainer or sport plane and how much fun they were

Unfortunately that can be so true. I personally like to fly anything with wings, but there are a lot of guys that self proclaim themselves as better and isolate them from the guys flying smaller planes just to make themselves fell important. yuk.

To me the lesson in BLE's comment is NEVER sell your trainer,,, and he is right. You always come back to them when you want to just relax and fly.

Very well said. The last 2 years I've flown 40 & 60 size plane almost exclusively. It's a great change of pace to fly a plane that cost a hundred bucks, so if you auger it in it doesn't hurt so much!!!! Another great plus is that they fit in my truck assembled, so there is no pain at the field of assembling and disassembling a plane. Even with the smaller size I still managed to burn through about $750 worth of fuel last year!!! []

Ken

I've been doing this for over 30 yrs, and I've never seen a more ACCURATE comment than the one made by "BLE". Folks in a big-***** rush to "get to the top"...never knowing that the next step is right out the door.

I think the lesson here is to ENJOY the journey. There are no prizes awarded for progressing faster than somebody else, nor are there any penalties should you choose to fly trainers for the next 50 years. Advance at a rate that you're comfortable with, but don't forget to enjoy the ride!

The oohs & ahhs that accompany a big, flashy airplane are very short lived, but the years of good times, and the smells of glow fuel and fresh cut grass at the field will last forever.

Have fun.

Man, that is so true. Long story, but I'll make it short. One of the guys I trained to fly now flies 3D ( or at least he's trying). He's got a big Edge 540 and a big Yak. All the planes he talks about are big planes, translation--- lots of $$$$$. Anyway, he had sold a GP Stick awhile back that made the rounds of pilots at the field before I finally wound up with it this summer. My intentions were to give it to a couple of brothers getting into the hobby but are a bit short on cash. It had a fuel problem that I figured out and fixed. Before I gave it to the brothers I decided to test it so I took it out. Well, the original owner walked by and in a smart allec tone said "Oh, you have it now. What a boring plane". I immediately told him that there are no boring planes, only boring pilots!!!! I challenged him to go up with me, me on the stick and him on his Edge, and see if he could follow me through an entire flight. I even handicapped him by saying that I would announce every move before I did it!!! He still declined to go up with me!!!

Heck, I have almost more fun putting a trainer through it's paces than I do on an Ultimate!!! Trust me on this one, it's not the plane..... It's the attitude!!!!

Ken

I like speed and prop jets. Most of my planes are in the 90 size and a GS P-51. If I don't get this "Cataract" fixed soon, I may be jumping to the big ones so I can see them better. I have one eye that is 20/15. The other one use to be and is now all screwed up!

I agree with all that has been said. But there is an important point to remember here. I am one of those guys that chose to move up to larger planes quickly, simply because that is what I wanted to do, not because I am in as was said a big *** rush. I was not in a rush, I made a choice that appealed to me.
Just as pilots that are financially limited to, or simply choose to fly, smaller planes should not be singled out or made to feel less becuase of what they fly, guys like me that like to fly the big stuff are not necessarily the enemy and should not be put down for their choices either.

Its not an "us" vs. "them" proposition.

My only point in my original comment was to emphasize that although a slow progression up through progressively larger and more maneuverable planes is an honorable path to take, it is not a necessity for all pilots. You simply have to be realistic about your limits and make the appropriate choices basis the best information you can get. Some pilots that aspire to fly big or very aerobatic planes or warbirds do not necessarily need to fly 10 different airplanes to get there. There are people that learn fast and can go directly to an advanced plane almost immediately. Contrary to popular belief, they are not that hard to fly and in may cases are easier to fly than a 40 size plane of the same species.


This is a hobby and it is about having fun doing what you love.


Back to the original poster, if you can fly the crap out of your trainer and you never get confused or disoriented you can fly almost whatever you want, big or small.

Hi Mike,

I agree that larger models are generally easier to fly and see than their smaller counterparts. I also agree that some flyers are able to rapidly progress to more demanding types of models and flying than their cohort. However I have seen many try to progress too quickly, bury an expensive model that was beyond their skill level and leave the hobby.

I still think most beginners should fly the wings off their trainer and then progress to a "middle level" of difficulty and resposiveness type. In all conscience I couldn't recommend that the Dirty Bird would be suitable although for an exceptionally quick and gifted beginner it may well be.

Cheers,

Colin

I agree 100%. What you say is pretty much the rule. [8D]

The reason I don't recommend "giant scale" planes to low experience flyers is that the consequenses of a mistake is high with these planes. A bounced landing usually means a new $30-50 dollar prop and possible damage to the landing gear. The same mistake on a .40 size plane usually = no damage but your pride. With 1/2 A size planes, anything short of pile driving it into the ground at full throttle usually does only minor damage.
I know someone who accidentally ran into a deer on the runway with his full scale Beechcraft Bonanza. It's going to take about $40,000 to get that plane operational again.