Yesterday was a crowded day at the field. Being a begginer I knew I should have stayed grounded for the day but no, I had to go up! On the first flight I went up when there were only two other pilots airborn but then I herd other taking off and other and other to a point that we had 7 pilots at the same time so I decided to land since it did not look safe anymore. I made a huge mistake by looking at the Tx for flight time and when I looked up again (2 seconsds at the most), I placed my eyes on other plane that looked just like mine. It seamed at the moment like I had lost control of it and so a told my spotter (wife) and she answered "Of course it is not responding it is pankaked ot on the field.

This post is just for a heads up to other begginers and any advise from the experts will be gladly received!

Personally, I blame your club. Every club I have ever been in has had a 4-airplane-in-the-air-at-one-time Limit

If I were you, I would bring this up at your next meeting. 7 planes in the air at once is just downright dangerous IMO

While I am sorry that happened to you. I do have to agree with Minn on this one.

We do have an unwritten agreement that usually one or at most two Giant Scale planes at the same time

our club has it written in the rules no more than 4 planes in the air at one time no matter what scale .

It depends on how much "air" you have...Ive flown with 3 jets, a pattern ship, and 2 trainers along with my trainer...no problems, we have almost unlimted space and can/have landed side-by-side before. We do though, folow certain unwritten rules.

Traning/just soloed pilot in the air, let him have his space, maybe one other plane to get used to it.

Maidens get the same courtesy. Any more than a couple planes, its in a pattern down low...up high doesnt matter so much.

The only time I've ever heard/seen someone get talked to about courtesy, was me. Being a noob still...i made my point clear against some of the veteran jet pilots. 2 jets took off side by side, and i had no problem with that. What i had a problem with, was that me and another guy were in the air, and they took off with smoke on...with the breeze comming at us, i lost my plane in the smoke for 2 or 3 seconds...but we made our points and haven't seen that problem again...

We arent a club. We fly on a navy base airstrip...but we all respect each other, and thats more important than any "written" rule. If you come out and be a punk, we cant 'make' you leave, but we can make your stay/flights VERY uncomfortable.

Also, nobody ever has a problem if you ASK to fly alone...so you always have that too.

The problem here is that the field is at a public park and we have two clubs flying out of it so basicly if you want to fly there you can without belonging to the club and it is a big problem. My first trainer, an Arrow came down because someone else turned on the radio in the same channel. I am thinking on joining a club with a private field, may be a little more expensive but may be well worth it! By the way I did learn the lesson "Never take your eyes off your plane!" specially while learning.

7 planes are too many in any area that close together unless you are coordinated in some way. The others were foolish IMO to have been up there but the only thing you could have done was come down sooner and also not worry about your timer. You were about to land so it didn't matter what the timer said or let your spotter look at it for you if you feel the need to know that badly. There are times when you must look away from the plane but that wasn't a good time as it turns out. You may have also gotten away with it also so I'm not going to fault you for it.
I do recommend a private field. You have seen only one of the advantages. You can always come back to the partk and fly if you need a quick afternoon flight.

A general good practice that I follow is to ask any pilot that is already in the air if its OK if I fly with them. There are some pilots in my club that I know are not comfortable with others in the air at the same time, and there are others that don't mind a bit. We've never had a problem, or had a need to place a limit on the number of planes in the air at one time.

Brad

Sorry about your mishap. I did about the same thing once and looked at some other planes but didn't crash mine. I was lucky I guess. About the !QUOT!public park!QUOT! that you fly at, I can tell you that from what our club has been through and is going through, that if it isn't organized and well controlled your going to loose the privilege to use it. That's what happened to us 2 months ago and we are still fighting to get the use of it back. My experience has been that when it's open to the public it get too out of hand and all it takes is even a minor problem and the whole thing gets shut down. Try to encourage the people there to get organized and safe to make sure they have a place to fly in the future.

Sorry about your loss.
My instructor has drummed into me something that may help in the future.
If you have to look at your transmitter, for any reason, lift it up so it is in line of sight with your airplane, that way you never have to completely take your eyes off your plane.

CJ, [] I'm sorry to hear the cessna "bit it". I went to the field today, but the rain never let up,...even though a group of us went over to Uncle Al's for lunch and came back trying to wait it out. What are you going to replace the plane with?

In response to the others who have voiced their opinions...our posted field rules state that the limit is 5 planes in the air at once. (The Heli area of our field allows 2 helis at once) Our problem begins when people (all AMA members) show up on the weekends and holidays and decide not to obey the rules. If a safety officer is on site and calls them on it...sometimes they listen...sometimes they don't, and by the time you can get a park ranger out there to respond, the situation is already resolved...a plane has landed and now there are only 5 aloft! Let me stress that the two very active clubs are made up of a very good group of pilots who do obey the rules, and respect each other. They have spoken at length with the park, and hopefully we will get someone with authority out there on the weekends who can toss people when they violate the rules, cause undo damage and create dangerous conditions for others!!!!! (Markham Park isn't referred to as Mayhem Park on the weekends for nothing!!!) I personally won't fly on the weekends because of the lack of respect that some part time pilots have for the sport. [>:] (It only takes a few to ruin it for all...same as anything else in life)
Well I've said my peace on the subject...AND IT'S STILL RAINING...I haven't flown in 8 days...I'm going stir crazy!!!
Bev

Bev, the solution is simple. If someone breaks the rules, have your safety officer prohibit their flying. Get a Park Ranger. The "Problem" has not resolved itself - the "Problem" is that there is an individual who broke the rules. Have the nice Park Ranger escort the rule-breaker off the premises.

Mike,

Sometimes when the field is a public park, the safety officer is limited to what he/she can really do. There is a place in King of Prussia Pa that is like this. I have been there once. Though it's a nice field, the only way someone can be removed or asked to stop flying is if a Ranger does it. The clubs safety officer does not have "power" at all.

I suspect that they have a similiar problem. In essence the safety officer position at places like this seem to be of not much use since the ability to have someone stop flying is all they can do and that all depends on if that person just wants to be a PITA.

Bev,

I can relate to the rain thing, I know you just went through Ernesto as I was going to come down last week and do some flying over south of Tampa.

We just had 2.5 days of Ernesto here and I went stir crazy, but the good thing is I got all my maintanence done, then on Sun afternoon I got several flights in then yesterday I spent 12 hours flying almost all day long...Can you say "seriously sunburned face" from looking up almost all day long [X(][sm=red_smile.gif]

Mike, You are so correct. I know that our park has changed managers mid year, and that the clubs have been to safety meetings at the park. I believe they are trying to work out the logistics at this point. Hopefully we will have some good news by mid fall on this subject. Again, this doesn't really happen during the weekdays or with club members. Plus it's surprising to have to explain to people the RULES which are posted on a HUGE board right next to the gates to the pits and flying field. (the gates even have a sign that states no spectators beyond this point...and we've had to tell people in the pit area that their friends, family and babies in strollers can't be out there next to the table while they are running up engines!!!) And to be fair, the safety officers have to wait for the Ranger to arrive who could be busy at one of the other many venues at this 666 acre park. By then, he has sometimes taken verbal abuse, and the offender could be finished flying and packing to leave anyway. Again, it only takes a few spoil a great day for all.
Bev

Bill, You hit the nail on the head in reference to our field. As to the rain and Ernesto thing, Holy Cow!!! I'm looking out the window now at the planes tracking into KFLL through the rain, chatting on-line, and watching Tropical Storm Florence on the weather channel. (everything but flying!!!) ARE WE HAVING FUN YET???
Come down and fly with us if you get in the area...be smart...make it a weekday, and bring SUNSCREEN!
Bev

Bev,

I'll look you guys up in a few weeks (likely 2 or 3) Yep familiar with the sunscreen thing. Lived in Orlando for 8 yrs drving limos and working as a contractor at the mouse house on the Tower of Terror and a few other rides (computer systems)

Also been through my fair share of Tropical storms and Hurrcaine Andrew (Hauled water in 7000 gal tankers for 6 weeks up and down the florida turnpike)

Bill, Looking forward to it. We welcome visiting pilots. So you worked for the "rat"...it's not as hot here as in Orlando. And as a Miami native...thank you for your help after Andrew. Bad as the Wilma aftermath was for us last October, (98% of all traffic lights in Dade/Broward counties were out) I wasn't afraid...now post-Andrew was another story! Don't want to repeat one of those!
I'll pm my email address to you. Let me know when you're coming down to fly!
Bev

Bev:
When I ended the life of the Hangar 9 Arrow I got a Phonix models Sea bee which I have flown. The thing is that even though the plane flies superb it is a little too hot on landing, so I got the Cessna to complete my basic training before moving on to the SeaBee to which I will be forced now to get back to. I will verify the CG though because when I throttle back the plane almost dives which makes me sweat a lot, so after this incomming weekend's events You will be seeng me back there. I just need some more time during the weekdays so I can avoid the Crazy weekends./

CJ, Check out the CG with David Storer, Joel, or Eddie Selva or his brother Patrick. (actually there are a host of great pilots & builders out there.) When my Kadet went in, it forced me to switch to the Sky Raider, which while it's a trainer, is more responsive than the Kadet (kite, balloon, floater) Senior was. It has made me a better pilot quicker. By the way, the field will be open on Friday...they aren't closing it for the pylon races until Saturday. Maybe next week will have better weather...I'm hoping for left pattern wind of course!! See you at the field, and again sorry about the Cessna!
Bev

Bev,

Are there size limits at that field? I just answered your PM with the same question but it might be good onfo for everyone else.

I asked bcause I have two glow planes both 60 size and then the gas ones range from 27% up to 35% but all are on canister systems so they are very quiet

Big birds are wellcome at Markham just keep the noise level down! by the way, Saturday I saw for the first time a Turbo-prop The sound is so close to the real thing that it is almost a melody! UUUUUUUUgly plane though! Lol

Bill, No, we don't have any size limits. We have turbine jets, ( f-15s, fa-18 hornets, Storms, Eurosports, KingCats, etc ) a contingent of IMAC guys with 33% to 40% planes. Eddie has a 46% ultimate biplane. A wide range of gas and glo, plus electrics of all sizes. Our field is 55 acres with a 760+ ft asphalt runway, a separate heli area, electric field, control-line field, plus about 1/2 mile down the road a lake for float planes...(our channel shed for all this is in our main pit area.) Any and all types and sizes of planes can go up at the same time...just with the 5 plane limit) Wednesday afternoons the jet guys usually fly together, so you see several jets up at once. It works well and people take turns, call for landings, touch & go's, take-offs, dead-sticks, and the occasional "look out". Our main instructor teaches while several planes are up...never a problem. Hope this answers most of your questions.
Bev
BTW...the largest plane to use the field was a full size Cessna (I believe) a few years ago that made an emergency landing on the runway when it was still only 500 ft long. (the extension was done this past February)

I love the sound of jets/turbo-props.

My loudest gas is 91Db and that is when the 2 blade prop is on it. With a 3 blade it quickly goes down to 89db at full throttle which it only sees going straight up

I was typing at the same time you posted Bev,

Sounds good to me. I always ask that question because of limits some places have and I do not want to casue any issues as a visiting pilot.

Our limit at our club is 6 planes. Very nice club!!


www.sccmas.org

Frankie, Nice field...I just went to your web site. Love the web cams!!! We joke that there must be one hidden at our field because every time a plane plows in...Warricks Custom Hobbies (our closest and largest hobby shop) always seems to hear about it first!!! You've got some great looking planes out there too. There are a lot of shots of planes (prop & jet) in flight, etc. at our field that a local professional photographer has put up here in RCUniverse and on a web site. You can portal to it through the beginning of the thread "Bev & Joel flying a trainer".
Bev