OK. Here's the deal. I have a Midwest Aero-Star 40 that I'm currently flying, getting my feet wet and getting a feel for things.

For my THIRD, or maybe even 4th plane, I'm hoping to move to a large war-bird, like a 96" P51.

So, what would you recommend for a 2nd plane, in order to make a transition from trainer to P51?

My only requirement is that I want it to be a kit, not an ARF, as I want the experience of building/covering another one. I have a Super Tiger .61 that I could use in this plane, and so have been checking out the 60 sized kits, but I could get another engine if need be.

I was checking out some low-wing aerobats, like the sig 4*60, GP super sportster 60, or the GB Tiger 60. Also, considered the GP Giles 202 46. I did consider a smaller P51, but am under the impression that it might be a little harder to fly right off the bat, and so was looking for a "trainer" type low wing. Tower's web-site and catalog make the Giles sound like a great 2nd plane choice, but from what I've read on here, consensus doesn't seem to agree.

So, given my aspirations, what would you go with?

Thanks in advance for all suggestions,
Heath

Having aspirations of a P-51 as a 4th plane is not totally out of the question but may be unlikely especially in the giant scale range. It really depends on your progress and how many flights you put on the first three. Fly the trainer enough that you can place it in precisely the position you want it to be in the sky and land it every time in the center of the runway. This will normally require several hundred flights. The Tiger, 4* or Sportster would make a good second plane and give some low wing experience. Learn some pattern maneuvers and learn to fly inverted as well as upright. Again a few hundred or a thousand flights. For the third plane the Giles or something equivalent would be a good choice. A larger size (1.2 ci or better) would help the transition to giant scale. Practice with the plane in all possible attitudes. Many a plane has been lost when it decided to get into an attitude the pilot had never seen before (like inverted during a landing approach when the speed was reduced too much and it tip stalled and entered a "snap".)

Now for the step to the giant P-51. No matter how you do this it's not a step. It's a real jump (maybe even a leap). Warbirds don't fly as well as aerobatic planes or planes built and designed as models since the flying surfaces suffer from scale effect. Scale effect means that when the plane is reduced in scale (volume) the flying surfaces become too small and very ineffective especially in smaller models. Also you would need to learn how to build and equip a larger model. Running a "gasser" also requires a lot of additional information. A transition into giant scale and gasoline engines are some more steps.

As you progress the above will become easier to understand. A giant scale also follows the same rules in the cost department. A 0.60 size plane will fly with 4 sport servos @ $15.00 each or $60.00 for servos. I'm currently building a 1/3 scale that requires 8 servos and at a street price of $115.00 each for DS-8411 will quickly add up to a very different situation. Many other factors will add to the equation.

Some "teach" themselves to fly. Some also win the lottery. Chances of success are quite the same.

Welcome to this wonderful hobby and sport. Enjoy the trip and the steps (pardon the pun) along the way.

EXCAP232

Heath welcome to a great hobby. First let me list what my son and I fly. Giant Aeromaster, 4 star 120 and 4 star 60, sig kougar, lanier 81 inch span cap 232, H9 1/4 cap 232, and when we really need to relax a telemaster 40.
Now to answer your ? The 4 stars never sit around long enough
to collect much dust. On the subject of P- 51 s I have had two
both t/f kits of the 65 inch wing size, they built well and flew well . Warbirds are different flying planes, you usually need a bit of power kept on until the plane is really on the ground. One fellow in my club built a mustang and did a beautiful job, he also flew it well . After one season with the bird and no problems at all he sold it. He said it was boring to fly. AS for your 2nd plane I think the 4 star 60 is a great choice , it will give you lots of practice doing aerobatic and just for a giggle build flaps into the wings or use flaperons if your radio is so equiped. Another great plane is the Spacewalker either the arf by GP or the kit by Sig. it lands like a baby. I had the GP arf version but sold it to fund one of the caps . Ok last thought, look for a dragon lady 60 you won t be unhappy with that one either.
good luck

I am currently working on a Great Lakes Contender for my second plane. It will take a 40 or 60 size engine. My instructor and other R/C folks have told me it is a good second plane. Not to hard to fly but a nice aerobatic plane.

It is also a gold edition kit which means it is laser cut not stamped and should be a good challenge to build, but not impossible for us newbies.

And of course this is all IMHO!

I can vouch for the 4*, I have a 120, (needs a little fixing) that is Im sure the best flying plane Ive had yet.
Id say you cannot go wrong with that choice.
I sure dont reccommend jumping into a warbird untill 6-8 planes latter.
I couldnt have dreamed up a response as well stated as EXCAP232, this advice should be well taken into consideration.

Youll have a good bit of time and $s invested in the proposed plane, if you take inventory of everything needed to complete this project, usually its done for you if you check the website of the manufacturer, youll see what I mean, its expensive, too much so to fly without a wealth of experience.

Do work your way up by building a plane with flaps and retractable gear ect. as your experience builds. This way you can get used to using extra swithches and features and see how the plane is effected by each.

GP Easysport 40, Tiger 60. I have both, and both are great flyers

I would go with a low wing in whatever you choose. I got a four star 40 that is a low wing and tail dragger. All built but am still practicing on my trainer on landing etc.

Landing is the only part of flying that you have mother nature's assistance - called gravity.

OK. So I may need to make the P51 my 5th or 6th plane? No problem.

I've kind of narrowed the decision down to either the Sig 4* 60 or the Great Planes Super Sportster 60. Anybody have both of these or have flown them and could make a comparative recommendation?

I read in one post that the 4* had a tendency to "float" more on landings, making it a little more challenging to put on the runway than the Super Sportster, which kind of had me leaning in that direction. Can anyone confirm or rebut that info. Any advice to steer me in the right direction between the two would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Heath

Since your looking at the 60 size you might also look at the venture 60. I have read good things about this plane. Link is attached below. Looks a little better than the 4* IMHO.

http://www.btemodels.com/venture.html

While I prefer Gp to Sig, I would suggest the 4* 60 over the SuperSportster as a second plane. The 4* is a lot more forgiving.

And to tell the truth, I think the Tiger 60 is a better second plane than both of them.

Thanks Mike,

You know, I really like the Tiger 60, but its not available yet, and from what I hear there's no definite on when they'll really be available (even though Tower says "mid-Jan"). Hmm. The Sig IS $30 cheaper, but I really like the look of the sportster better. So how much difference is there in their flight characteristics?

You're right HWFLYER, the venture is a good looking model. Nice reviews of it, too. Anybody got experience on them?

I really appreciate the help,
Heath

The sportster is more of a third plane. Keep in mind that things like the 4* and Tiger are good second planes ONLY for some people in some situations. Generally a shoulder wing plane or a high- semi-symetrical wing plane is recommended for a second plane. Something like the GP Easy Sport, Goldberg Falcon, Avistar, etc.

Stepping up to a low wing plane is a big step, it's just that there are a few low wing planes that are more forgiving than others, like the 4* and the Tiger.

The Super Sportster flies heavier then the Four Star or Venture of equivalent size. Not as forgiving, but if you buddy box with an instructor for the first few times you take it out, you'll probably catch on pretty quick. The Super Sportster will better prepare you to fly the heavier warbirds than the 4* or Venture will. I feel that the 4* and Venture fly better, but if you are looking for something that will train you to fly warbirds, the SS may help you out more.

My third plane was a four star, and it is a great flying airplane. Its like flying a trainer IMO. We all feel like jumping to that airplane that you've always wanted, but in this hobby/sport you need a little more time. What I can recommend to get you there faster is a flight simulator, I use GP realflight G2. Its amazing and has a giant P-51 on it thats awesome. You might think that 200 bills is alot of money for software, but its worth it. and you might be able to get that Mustang alot quicker.

No one has mentioned either the Sig Astro Hog nor if you want ... the Hog Bipe! ... both are excellent flyers ... and don't let the word "BIPE" scare you when refereing to the Hog Bipe ... it lands like a trainer ... but can be mor fun when set up for Air Arobic Exercises ... and BIPE's are cool ...

Just a suggestion ... and another avenue to consider ... and they are both SIG kits ... which your 61 would work just fine.

the hog bipe does NOT land like a trainer, it drops like a rock when you pull the power off.

Maybe you should try one with out the built in balast weight added ...

Even with my satio 80 ... it still floats in like a trainer ... it would land itself if I would let it ...

Must be the builder ...

But I would avise you to do a search for Hog bipe ... look what all the others have said about this bipe ... and this was the first time I have heard it said it flys like a rock ... or lands like one ...

but your intitled to your opinion ... I'll just state my known fact .. since I do own one and have flown several others ... along with may types of different classes of planes ... now if you said My Pitts S-2c landed like a rock ... I would agree ... with no power ...

only cuz it has a OS 70 under the cowl ... instead ot the 52 they call out for ...

I would have to recommend the 4*60 for a second plane. I did it, and if you have built your confidence on flying the trainer, go with it.

My 2nd plane was a 4*60. I flew it, learned to fly a tail dragger / floater, then cut the wing on the two outboard ribs, making it a roughly 67"ish WS plane. Better performance, snappier, and an excellent low wing trainer. Now I fly a Model Tech P-51, but that's just me. I fly allot, stalled the 4*, and did what I had to do to get used to a low wing. The P-51 is AWESOME, but can bite your A** if you become lacks….

Pace yourself, LEARN your planes and YOUR responses, and then go with it!

ENJOY!

Wiqar

Maybe it was the builders, I dont know. I never said it flies like a rock, , they fly great, But not one of them land like a trainer.
The Astro Hog is a great choice though, no doubt.

Keep in mind that if you recommend an airplane, this isnt a seasoned modeler, and he is asking for a good 2nd airplane!

Hum......My first airplane 20 years ago was a Sig Kadet Jr. Only lasted 3 flights, if you include landing in a tree a flight. I started building 2 channel gliders and flew them everyday......a while had pased and I built a Sig Kobra. It flew fantastic, really go where you point it, and landing was very predictable. I had a few crackups, but just cut it apart, and fixed it, no big deal. After using that plane as an avanced trainer, and forcing myself to learn, I got good, because flying that sort of plane requires your constant attention ( it doesn't self right at all, just keeps going where you pointed it last), and it built very well, nothing too hard, but if you pay attention to the details, comes out very nice, I even modified my next plane ,Sig Kougar to have a canopy that opened with a small servo. I learned to fly when the sims sucked and without a trainer cord, old school, so you either did or crashed and fixed.
With reguards to a P-51, if you like them enough, you probably won't mind having a few. I am building a Pica P-40 1/5th scale 86in wingspan,(among a bunch of other projects). I would like to say that I like the kit quality very much on the whole. Even though I had to make a few changes to it. It builds well, but the instructions suck, but then again its not for the first time builder or flyer. Top flight as well as Pica make a 1/5th scale Mustang that would be great practice on your way up to a 97in monster mustang. Remember when building, keep it light or it will sink really fast. To get some airtime when your ready for a Mustang, consider building either a .40 size or the bigger offering from World Models. The mustang gets pretty hot with a fast .45 or .46, but is pretty tame with a mild .40 on a bigger prop (11-5 instead of a 10-6) It is much less of a handfull than my Sig Kougar or Kobra for sure, with the only exception being the taildragger set up. I have a fellow flyer that has the 80in Mustang with a fox 2.4 gas in the nose, it flys really well, more like a sport plane than a scale job(tank) and the newer versions have flaps too, and goes for $499.99 from Quantum Models. If you price out a typical kit at 250 and add the retracts for another 400 and an aluminum spinner for 50.....your already at $700 bucks! For 5 bills you can have an ARF that I have seen fly very well that also includes retracts and takes a gas conversion well.
Although the retracts are not that good, once you can land without having to realign the struts, you've moved up another level. I think the best part is you can bump it up a little without crying like the first scratch on a new car. Good luck to your goals!

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The Tiger 60 is a better second plane i have got one and i love it you can learn alot of tricks and build you flying up and it will knife edge great and you can put your throws up as high as you can on dual rates after you get used to it and it will roll very fast thanks and burn some fuel